[SleepCounter]

Originally Posted by goat

its annoying to me as a MEMBER (mod hat off) to have to sift through, to get to the meat of a subject. This has nothing to do with invoking credibility.

Well, invoking credibility was my intent, please do not attribute motives to me that are untrue.

Originally Posted by goat

wow.. Is that really the way think?

That's the way i deal with annoying posters. Evidently the way that you would as well, had you not undertaken mod duties, based on your previous comment ("it gets to the point where i would place most of you on ignore if it were acceptable, as a mod, to do so").

Is that really the way you think?

If so, we've discovered common ground.

Originally Posted by goat

So that means they should all be burdened with having to ignore you instead of you just gaining a bit of tact with your posts?

Actually, the "burden" is assumed by the software. Two mouse clicks and that poster is history.

Originally Posted by goat

you were moderated, and that behavior was addressed. It is our job to limit such feuds, and if, after many closed threads, a "next step" is required - thats when temp bans are handed out.

So there is no more "warnings"? Are you trying to tell me that there were no "repeated private messages from the mods" as claimed by M(y)x6gr8RiDe?

Why would he say something like that except that he believed it to be true?

Originally Posted by goat

Sorry, but we won't just leave it up to the members to ignore list other members, if they are consistently a problem.

What, then, is the intent of the ignore list, pray tell?

Originally Posted by goat

and modern skin grafting is a direct result of experiments performed in nazi germany. You might think it raises the value of the site.. but the answers will come anyway - the site can do without the bickering in the same way we could have arrived at better burn treatment without attempted genocide.

Nice metaphor: bickering=holocaust I hope that is not indicative of the mod mindset. If so, I think you all need a vacation.

Originally Posted by goat

but, I DO agree with you there.. that was a major point of contention when the problems came to a head in the first place... you guys DO bring a ton of insight and intellect to the table. All the technical knowledge in the world means squat when a person's attitude sucks...

Never mind the rules, it's attitude that count, right?

Originally Posted by goat

when its clouded by redirection tactics...

Still no answer to my repeated queries regarding "repeated private messages from the mods". Redirection tactics, indeed.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Originally Posted by goat

and when it continues long after someone of authority has asked that it stop.

Aha! Are we finally arriving at the "repeated private messages from the mods"?

Sometimes difficult to detect when a mod is being a user and when he is being a mod. Is there a way to tell?

In any case, I didn't receive those "repeated private messages from the mods".

Originally Posted by goat

Why is it that technical discussions, with differing points, can be had in other parts of the site, without turning into a circus? hint: you have a large part to do with the "tone" these threads take.. hence the actions that were taken against you.

After, of course, "repeated private messages from the mods".

Originally Posted by goat

more misdirection.. my suitability as a mod has nothing to do with my desire to ignore most of the problem members or flame baiters.

With respect, your exact words were, "more than one of us (i'll include myself here, we've all had our episodes on this site) have become maddeningly intolerable, and regardless of the wealth of knowledge any one person might represent, it gets to the point where i would place most of you on ignore". No mention of problem members or flame baiters.

Originally Posted by goat

Its a gut reaction, same as one's desire to do without the rantings of a lunatic on a street corner... it has nothing to do with my sutiability or preference of being a mod,

Gut reaction trumps the rules anytime, right?

Originally Posted by goat

though i do like the almost-tact with which you presented your appreciation for the mods and their duties.

It was genuine, no matter how much to would like to devalue it with smarmy put-downs.

Originally Posted by goat

Funny you mention bedlam without seeing your own contribution to it.

There are other, unpunished contributors, among them mods.

I abhor the double standard.

Originally Posted by goat

you mean your selective quotings of them? Lets ignore the common sense element entirely.. If its not written down, it doesnt apply.

Non sequitur. I almost always quote in entirety so that things are not taken out of context.

Originally Posted by goat

we're having one now

Speak for yourself. I don't consider this "an episode", but rather some significant indignation for mods making up stories about "repeated private messages from the mods" to mask their "gut reaction" knee-jerk response.

"Never mind what the rules say, he's being uppity!"

Originally Posted by goat

re: ban - it was a 3 dayer. a time out. most sites dont call that a ban, they'll call it restricted access or whatever.

Well if you call it by a different name, that makes the "repeated private messages from the mods" revisionism a little more palateable, right?

Originally Posted by goat

Real bans are permanent, and no_one wanted that for either you or sick... that much i can assure you of.

Just put them uppity users in their place, right?

Originally Posted by goat

if there is some conspiracy to get you banned permanently, you can also be certain it will be paid better attention to.

So this was undertaken capriciously, simply because if wasn't permanent?

That certainly confirms my perception.

Originally Posted by goat

If there are unsubstantiated claims flying around about what actions have been taken, PMs sent, or other warnings you supposedly ignored, when in fact they were never made, then obviously thats unfair to you and should be handled accordingly.

There are, and it is, indeed unfair. No "if" about it.

I imagine you'd be more than a little ruffled if such treachery was perpetrated upon you.

Originally Posted by goat

and those mods were asked to leave several months ago. There is as little tolerance for it on the mod staff as there is in the general membership.

That certainly is not my perception. Catch 22, anyone?

Originally Posted by goat

All mods have a say in who becomes staff and who is asked to leave before the decision is made.

I hope the opinions of the mods who are closest to the candidates/victims are given more weight.

Originally Posted by goat

as for current moderators, unless you mean me specifically, i cannot think of any who don't try their hardest to be decent to all members they moderate. I've yet to see one be harsh until long after it was pushed far enough where it would be justified. I've yet to see a mod lose it over any SINGLE instance.

In the interest of keeping this civil and adhering as nearly as I can to 'goon's request that, "A concern that involves a single moderator should be discussed with a admin via pm or email", I would sooner not point any fingers at any individuals.

Inasmuch as this was evidently a group decision, I think the group bears responsibility.

You know (or can check to find) the origin of the fiction of "repeated private messages from the mods" and can deal with it as a group.

If you bought into that fiction as a group and failed to exercise due diligence, it should be your problem to rectify.

I am only communicating (as objectively as I possibly can, given my disappointment at the behaviour of the group) my perspective.

As previously noted, I am not claiming any sainthood and am certainly guilty of some transgressions of rules (although not in the threads you seem to see them). I just think that a double standard exists here and it makes it difficult to adhere to the rules when they are enforced capriciously, arbitrarily and selectively or when members are punished seemingly at the whim of one mod while others (and other mods) seem immune from any consequences for the same transgressions.

Originally Posted by thrasher

Not that I want to get in the middle of this, but its kinda loosing the point of a quiet protest.

No one's called anyone else an idiot yet. I think that puts it on the quiet side of the curve.

Originally Posted by becker

no mod should lose it all, that isnt a good mod in my point of view

I would suggest that a mod who does so should face the same consequences as would a user who does likewise.

Originally Posted by fierce

Is it getting louder in here or is it just me,

I think it's goatcrapp using a little SC quoting strategy to try to inflict the frustration on me that I seem to inflict upon him. Or at least to try to illustrate how picayune it appears.

He may have succeeded in part. Now if only I could succeed in gettting him to address the "double standard" stuff and the "ficticious warnings" stuff (both of which I see as having every bit as deleterious effect upon this board), maybe we can put this issue behind us.

But my communications to date (here, in email and in pmail) give little promise of any acknowledgement of error of commission or omission by any mods (aside from goat's admitting "episodes").

I'm a big boy, I can take a suspension if I earned it. It seems that the perception in the mods forum is somewhere along the lines of me having earned it by ignoring repeated warnings from the mods.

If that is indeed their justification as suggested by M(y)x6gr8RiDe here (Where did SleepCounter's Street Racing = Death thread go?), it is fallacious.

If that is not their justification, I don't think it's too much to ask which rule/rules was/were broken.