so, it looks like this finally may be happening. winter is here, time to get some REAL work done with the car. what i need is ANYONE who has experiance with ms on the f2t....mainly, what route should i take for the ignition, i know i was talking to someone on here that had used the ford edis. thanks for any help, time to get this project moving!
im planning on taking on a MS setup over the winter. chances are you'll have to figure everything out on your own though. i know AMD as well as others have successfully squirted a few first gens but the information has never really been posted up for others to use. the fe section has a little bit of info on a thread dutch started
i plan on going with either some GM coil packs or the ford ecis. im looking at getting MS1 on a v3.0 board. i'll be ordering it up here in a month or two. and i would definitely like to make or contribute to a how to thread
to get started, get your self the MS1 V3.0 board or maybe MS2 and go wasted spark it seems dificult at first, but once you get into it and learn the program and all its features it gets alot simpler.
1 - MS1 V3.0 assembled or not with the wiring harness recomended. the bors will need a few jumpers and mods to run the VR sensors, pretty streight forward, but if you got questions let me know as the megamanual can be a little bit confusing sometime
2 - If your going to use the stock distributor with the 24 tooth wheel, you will need to build an extra VR conditioner circuit. remember to use a shielded wire for the second VR sensor and you only ground the shield on the MS side or you can skip the second VR conditioner circuit and grind two teeth from the 24tooth wheel 180 degrees apart making it a 12-1 wheel. it works very well MSnS Extra Ignition Hardware Manual
3 - for wasted spark you will need a second VB921 to fire the second coil and well a coil pack, i've found the dodge neon coilpacks to work very well MSnS Extra Ignition Hardware Manual
4 - for idle control a 3 wire bosch solenoid and a 50watt 35-40ohm resistor or the 2 wire valve, with MS2 you can controll a steper motor idle valve. you will also need to replace the transistor for one with a much higher amp rating like the TIP122 MSnS-Extra Hardware Manual
6 - also need a way to get a taco signal for aftermarket tac gauge, as when you remove the stock ECU and harness your taco gauge will not function. there probably is a way to tap into the original taco gauge and make it functional with MS. MSnS-Extra Hardware Manual
7 - if you have the PRS system (programable ride control) you will have to hard wire the powersteering rack solenoid to a 12 swichable source, otherwise its full stiff mode as if you had no powersteering at all.
8 - some suporting fuel mods such as fuel pump if you need one bigger, injectors if you need them bigger, fuel pressure regulator, all depends on your power goals.
9 - once all wiring is done double check that all is done. its time for the setting in megatune, setting your tooth wheel and making sure you have the right timing, unpluging your injector fueses and fuel pump relay to test if your getting spark at the right time. have a fire extinguisher ready and try firing it
if i can think of anything else i'll add, but i cant think of at the moment, if you got any specific question just ask and if i know the answer to it or if i had experianced the same issue i'll help you out as much as i can.
btw there are a few important setting in the codebase and output function setting of megatunne, also the wheel decoder setting and spark seting that you will need to pay attention to so that you dont fry any circuit components by activating the wrong outputs. document all the wiring you are doing on a pice of paper so that you have something to look back at and see what you have done and how you hooked it up. I'll share my MSQ to get your up and running, but you will have to tune it to your setup it wont be a burn the chip and go all out, you have to tune it to your engine needs.
Just lately i found out that MS1 can do spark with the extra code.
whadya mean? its been doing it for years :-) i posted that in your pic based ign controller months ago. am i on your ignore list :-p
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The MS options are a bit overwhelming, and configuring was designed by computer geeks for computer geeks.
yeah, but its not that bad. car geek might be a better term. pc geeks wouldnt have a clue either. i managed to get mine from no ms installed and only have an engine setup to boosting and not blowing up inside a week.
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What about the 2 temps sensors? Does anyone have a table for the stock temp sensor ? and which one is it (a picture ??)
2 pin, usually a green plug. denso curve. the single wire one is for the guage. if you have more than 2, take a photo of it.
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And for Air intake temp, what is easiest to use ?
any, but the one that doesnt require any fiddling is the gm open element iat sensor as described in the docs.
massive reading is the key to ms.
not sure about that massive list above.
i certainly wouldnt use vb921s to switch my coils. but i'm fussy and different.
Thats the thing, this thing is evolving at a crazy pace. "MSnS extra code" WTF ?? , why didn't they just call it "Spark code for MS1".
yes its evolving fast, but not silly fast. extra code has been around for a LONG time, and been well established as the only code to use for a LONG time. unfortunately the authors of the original code have a thing against throwing their own code away in favour of the more useful stuff, so its not the default on the main sites. a little reading makes you realise that its the only way to go though. if you ever post on the main site, there is a red warning mentioning the msextra site. i only subscribe to the msextra forums now.
Its not called spark code (though there was one called that a long time ago hence msnS) because it doesnt just do spark, it does boost, launch, antilag, etc etc etc. you name it.
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Can you elaborate or post a link to this table ?
in the second post in my thread is a link to a thread with the coolant table in it. its commonly known though, almost all jappas use it, its all through the ms docs.
Read the megamanual/extra manual thoroughly and multiple times.
One other option that wasn't mentioned is using a locked N/A distributor and using the VB921 driver to drive a coil. You'll need to disable the mechanical and vacuum advance. The N/A distributor uses a hall sensor, and that circuitry is already built in to the PCB. For simplicity's sake, this would probably be the easiest way to go.
If you would like to keep your GT disty, I do have an extra dual VR conditioner circuit. All you would need to do is solder it to a few spots on the board and make a few more hardware adjustments.
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Originally Posted by LARKEN
What about the 2 temps sensors? Does anyone have a table for the stock temp sensor ? and which one is it (a picture ??)
And for Air intake temp, what is easiest to use ?
The coolant temp sensor is a two pin sensor, on the otherside of the thermostat (next to the coolant temp gauge sensor).
Download EasyTherm to calibrate the stock CLT sensor. There are preloaded values for the RX-7 sensors and are really close to the stock values. Make sure the bias resistor measurement on the board (R7 is the CLT) correlates to the input in EasyTherm. I had a 1.3k resistor in there instead of the 2.49k and had problems with the readings being off before changing the value in EasyTherm.
As for the air temp sensor, there is no use in using the stock one. I'm using a plastic GM open element sensor mounted on the charge pipe. The GM temp sensors are recommended to be used with MS.
i think 2.2k is optimal for the denso sensor. may have remembered that wrong though. certainly its close to the stock 2.49k resistor. the stock setup is for the gm style as with the iat.
the iat is recommended to be open element so its fast enough to be useful. the gm one is just easy because its preconfigured...
6 - also need a way to get a taco signal for aftermarket tac gauge, as when you remove the stock ECU and harness your taco gauge will not function. there probably is a way to tap into the original taco gauge and make it functional with MS. MSnS-Extra Hardware Manual
The wire for the tachometer signal is a yellow and blue stripe wire(on the harness that goes to the instrument cluster) that you can run the tach signal wire from ms. Keep in mind that if you want to run a wasted spark setup, the stock tach will not work unless you combine both (-)'s wires from the coil via three diodes that allow both signals to join without grounding each other out.
-Rick- 88 MX6 GTCeleste Boosted on an Electromotive TECII standalone. FE-DOHC rebuild 198kw, 393Nm/ @ 1.04 bar
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This is a little-visited and quite esoteric area of the site...
I can't see the difference in settings between running wasted spark and distributer mode, other than setting 1 output. Am i missing something.
Im going to grind off 2 teeth on the 24 tooth wheel and run one VR input.
nope your not missing anything, thats all there is to it, with wasted spark, thats the easiest way is to gring off 2 teeth from the 24 tooth wheel and only use the VR conditioner circuit that is already built into MS V3.0, and using a second VB921, but if you dont want to gring any teeth then you have to build a second VR conditioner circuit
But can I grind off the 2 teeth and just use 1 coil with the distributer ?
Anyone have a picture of which 2 teeth they ground off ?
I plan on eventually making a crank trigger wheel because with the adjustable cam timing pulley, the ingition timing will go off every time i adjust the cam.
yup you still have to grind of 2 teeth and yes you can use one coil with distributor.
to grind the proper teeth, turn your engine to TDC so that your TDC mark on the crank pully lines up properly. Now the tooth that is directly inline with the VR pickup sensor is your tooth #1 going clockwise you will need to grind tooth #10 which is 90 degrees BTDC tooth #11 is 60 degrees BTDC this is your triger A tooth. the second tooth to grind off is directly 180 oposite of the first tooth you ground off.
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