A/F Question....

**SXE MX6** · 3-1-06, 20:24

First off, who has one of these...

Next, how do you like it??? Reason I ask, is, I bought a car with one of these in it. Now, with that said, at 10psi, with the 5th injector ON, aftermarket fuel pump, ecu chip, and a STOCK TURBO, it shows that I am running lean.....(red light on)

Now on my other Mazda I have no chip, hybrid turbo, 10 psi, venom fuel pump, no 5th injector, with a autometer gauge, and it shows I'm running rich (halfway into the rich). I know these meter's arn't the best....but?? I know I should have a wideband to know forsure, bla bla bla, but I thought everyone ranted and raved over these dawes devices......as far as i'm concerned its a huge POS!! I'd rather hook up a didgital volt meter and run with that. (btw: it doesn't look fancy, but it works)

**cuJe5ter** · 3-1-06, 22:28

if its hooked up to a standard o2 sensor then its just a light show. not accurate at all. if its on a wideband then you're in business

**SixSick6** · 3-1-06, 22:58

It is most likely from a voltage scale that the stock sensor doesn't read. Red on that thing is .78~.90v The best thing to do is like you already said, use a multimeter. If you're using the stock ECU, the ECU ignores the O2 sensor under load and goes into open loop anyways. Typically you're going to see .3~.7v during closed loop and >.7 under open loop. 14.7:1 is stoich and the voltage reading would be .5v at which point especially with the F2T would be close to if not already going into open loop. The guage more than likely just isn't getting a signal any higher than .5v

**SXE MX6** · 3-1-06, 23:19

ok would this work then, weld a new bung, and put a new o2 sensor in, and use it strictly for a voltage signal? this way it would be on its own, and not trying to pull from two signals. Am I making sence?? I just don't want to go wideband. By the time I get one here, it'll run me close to 550-600..... for that price theres gotta be an easier way, like what I was getting at using a multi meter. (volt meter). I know the wideband would be more accuate, and I could log it, but really.... I'm not looking that way.

**cenatix** · 3-2-06, 8:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by SXE MX6

ok would this work then, weld a new bung, and put a new o2 sensor in, and use it strictly for a voltage signal? this way it would be on its own, and not trying to pull from two signals. Am I making sence?? I just don't want to go wideband.

You could do that, if you like guessing games. It'll be like your A/F gauge, but instead of colorful flashing lights, you get a voltage reading. Like Sick stated, the only value that corresponds to an actual AFR is .5v which is stoich (14.7:1). Anything below .5 and you're lean, and anything above .5v and your rich.

For example, a .85 volts could mean you're anywhere from 10:1 to 14:1 AFR (these aren't precise figures, but the logic is still there).

**Dyoel182** · 3-2-06, 9:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by SXE MX6

I know the wideband would be more accuate, and I could log it, but really.... I'm not looking that way.

Well if you arent gonna do it right, why try at all to get a reading?

**magik8** · 3-2-06, 10:44

You are kidding yourself if you think you can get any useful tuning info from the stock o2 sensor. Hooking up a voltmeter is not going to compensate for the fact that the stock o2 sensor just isn't made for tuning. The ECU only looks at the crossing of 0.5V, it doesn't look at any ranges (i.e. ECU does not consider "0.8-1V rich" or anything like that).

**SXE MX6** · 3-2-06, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyoel182

Well if you arent gonna do it right, why try at all to get a reading?

If the car was gonna run a 9 second pass, yea it'd be nice to have it logged.....
But for 13 seconds, if you can't see whats going on yourself, why bother??
I mean what good is having it logged, if you can't watch the gauge in the first place? What so you know later, the point you leaned out and blew it up?

Sure, If I had a stand alone, and re-did all my sensors, and had do get a fuel map, and need to come up with somthing......na, i'd still take it into a shop to get it tuned, because thats what they do!!
I can't see what a data log is gonna help with, if I don't go a stand alone.... sure it will give me my fuel curve, show where I'm leaning out...but really without a standalone, theres really no sence in this.. I just want to know if i'm lean or not.

I just have a hard time in spending like $600, just to make sure i'm not going lean. I know an engine rebuild is more.....bla bla bla, but just because your running rich, doesn't mean your not gonna blow your engine.

I was mainly asking a question, to see if it could be done off another o2 sensor, that all. Will I end up with a wideband.....yea probably, I could always use it in our race car later too.

This is also off topic, but I didn't feel like making a new thread. Is anyone here using water injection?? (aquamist) or any other?

**Dyoel182** · 3-2-06, 15:09

I believe Rebel uses it on his cars.

**SixSick6** · 3-2-06, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by magik8

You are kidding yourself if you think you can get any useful tuning info from the stock o2 sensor. Hooking up a voltmeter is not going to compensate for the fact that the stock o2 sensor just isn't made for tuning. The ECU only looks at the crossing of 0.5V, it doesn't look at any ranges (i.e. ECU does not consider "0.8-1V rich" or anything like that).

Actually, by 4,500 rpm you should see a reading of .7v from the O2 sensor itself and should see .5~1.0v when rapidily giving throttle. It should drop to 0~.4v on decel (letting off throttle)

Not that .7v is all that much, so what gauge wire is the meter attached to, vs how it is attached to the O2 sensor itself. My thinking is that the gauge that you have from dawes simply isn't seeing much over .5v let alone the .78~.9 that it takes to set off the blue light. What happens when you get close to redline?

**SXE MX6** · 3-2-06, 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SixSick6

Actually, by 4,500 rpm you should see a reading of .7v from the O2 sensor itself and should see .5~1.0v when rapidily giving throttle. It should drop to 0~.4v on decel (letting off throttle)

Not that .7v is all that much, so what gauge wire is the meter attached to, vs how it is attached to the O2 sensor itself. My thinking is that the gauge that you have from dawes simply isn't seeing much over .5v let alone the .78~.9 that it takes to set off the blue light. What happens when you get close to redline?

Blue light....is there one??? I've never even seen green!!! Most of the time the red light is on, maybe I see the amber every now and again.....
The wire looks like its spliced in around the connector (where the factory o2 clip is) I also have my autometer one around the same area, but then again, I soldered mine in, and I have no idea how this one is. could just be spliced and wraped around.... Maybe a 18 gauge wire connecting it....
Thats why I set the 5th injector to come on at 10 psi. I figured it should be pig rich then, but still, for the most part it was just red, if anything at all.
I know the autometer one still isn't better as far as reading is concerned, but without a fith injector in my "good mazda" it reads rich. Like half way into rich, when I get into the throttle.
No doubt its the way it was wired up, could be starting to corrode, could be becoming loose, who knows......its just a beater anyhow. I'll look into things further when I do the clutch on it. Other than that its not a bad car~!
Thanks too all who've added comments, I know as i've said before, obviously a wideband will give a WAY better reading, but thses things can still be somewhat close... I was just wondering who had one, and if they had any comments on it.

**SixSick6** · 7-13-06, 7:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SXE MX6

Blue light....is there one??? I've never even seen green!!! Most of the time the red light is on, maybe I see the amber every now and again.

I guess you still don't get it?

First light: Red= .78 to .90v
Second light: Yellow= .90 to .94v
Third light: Green= .94 to .98v
Fourth light: Blue= .98v and up

Found here:
http://www.3barracing.com/product_3.htm which is www.dawedevices.com

Go back and read what I wrote up top again and you should understand it.

While you're at it read this again:
http://www.mx6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165353 (Ghettodyne Narrow Band A/F Ratio)

**SXE MX6** · 7-13-06, 7:25

pff, don't give a rats ass about that POS anyhow!! I have a LM-1 now, and well, umm, maybe I can use that awesome light bar to make a nice necklace for you bunny! LMAO!!

3-1-06, 20:24	#1 (permalink)
SXE MX6 Join Date: May 2004 Location: , Close to Niagara Falls CA Age: 29 iTrader: (2)	A/F Question.... First off, who has one of these... Next, how do you like it??? Reason I ask, is, I bought a car with one of these in it. Now, with that said, at 10psi, with the 5th injector ON, aftermarket fuel pump, ecu chip, and a STOCK TURBO, it shows that I am running lean.....(red light on) Now on my other Mazda I have no chip, hybrid turbo, 10 psi, venom fuel pump, no 5th injector, with a autometer gauge, and it shows I'm running rich (halfway into the rich). I know these meter's arn't the best....but?? I know I should have a wideband to know forsure, bla bla bla, but I thought everyone ranted and raved over these dawes devices......as far as i'm concerned its a huge POS!! I'd rather hook up a didgital volt meter and run with that. (btw: it doesn't look fancy, but it works)
	*Gettin blown by one 19yr old...NICE!! Gettin blown by two...PRICELESS!!* 89 MX6 Turbo......waiting for the road again....someday....maybe!!! 89 626 Turbo Hatch....everyday driver! 89 ZX7 wishing it was turbo...... *Wife's cars-* 2001 Echo(driver) / 1991 GT Mustang(summer)

3-1-06, 22:28	#2 (permalink)
cuJe5ter Back to the Booster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Lincoln, NE, USA Age: 22 iTrader: (3)	if its hooked up to a standard o2 sensor then its just a light show. not accurate at all. if its on a wideband then you're in business
	My Garage 1987 MX-7 Worklog 1988 MX6 GT 14.8 @ 95mph 11psi on stock turbo --- motor going into the RX-7 1988 MX6 GT --- The DD - 2G Front Springs, SSQV, T-bird Hybrid, HKS EVC 1985 Jaguar XJ-6 --- Other DD. Slipping Transmission

3-1-06, 23:19	#4 (permalink)
SXE MX6 Join Date: May 2004 Location: , Close to Niagara Falls CA Age: 29 iTrader: (2)	ok would this work then, weld a new bung, and put a new o2 sensor in, and use it strictly for a voltage signal? this way it would be on its own, and not trying to pull from two signals. Am I making sence?? I just don't want to go wideband. By the time I get one here, it'll run me close to 550-600..... for that price theres gotta be an easier way, like what I was getting at using a multi meter. (volt meter). I know the wideband would be more accuate, and I could log it, but really.... I'm not looking that way.
	*Gettin blown by one 19yr old...NICE!! Gettin blown by two...PRICELESS!!* 89 MX6 Turbo......waiting for the road again....someday....maybe!!! 89 626 Turbo Hatch....everyday driver! 89 ZX7 wishing it was turbo...... *Wife's cars-* 2001 Echo(driver) / 1991 GT Mustang(summer)

3-2-06, 15:09	#9 (permalink)
Dyoel182 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Granbury, TX iTrader: (0)	I believe Rebel uses it on his cars.
	I'ts a piece of cake to bake a pretty cake, if the way is hazy You gotta do the cooking by the book, you know you can't be lazy

3-2-06, 10:44	#7 (permalink)
magik8 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Wisconsin, USA Age: 26 iTrader: (0)	You are kidding yourself if you think you can get any useful tuning info from the stock o2 sensor. Hooking up a voltmeter is not going to compensate for the fact that the stock o2 sensor just isn't made for tuning. The ECU only looks at the crossing of 0.5V, it doesn't look at any ranges (i.e. ECU does not consider "0.8-1V rich" or anything like that).

7-13-06, 7:25	#13 (permalink)
SXE MX6 Join Date: May 2004 Location: , Close to Niagara Falls CA Age: 29 iTrader: (2)	pff, don't give a rats ass about that POS anyhow!! I have a LM-1 now, and well, umm, maybe I can use that awesome light bar to make a nice necklace for you bunny! LMAO!!