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Old 7-4-06, 12:04   #1 (permalink)
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Big turbo, small budget. IHI RHC6 GM 1-8

I figured I'd bring this up since there is/was some confusion as to what the Borg Warner IHI RHC6 GM1-8 compares to when comparing any of them to a Garrett TO4B or TO4E.

The IHI RHC6 GM8 measures 2.756" major diameter and 1.968" minor diameter on the compressor wheel. There are NO minor diameters of TO4E that measure 1.968". The closest you would get would be the TO4E 40 trim which measures 1.870"...BUT..the major diameter is 2.950". A difference of a finger nail on each side...quite a difference in percentage and overall flow potential.

Now moving on to what is closest- The TO4B S which measures 2.750" major and 1.904" minor.

Here is the TO4B S which has a max choke flow of 37 lbs/min or roughly 17.7 m³/min which equates to roughly 625 CFM. Take the rules of 150 CFM per 100 hp and you'll see that the TO4B S is capable of enough flow for 300~500 hp. 300 hp comfortably, but 500 hp IS A STRETCH, especially on a small displacement engine. You'd likely see most of your hp taper off in the 350+ range



Now onto more facts courtesy of IHI. The closest current compressor map that you'll find is located here:



But this is for the latest series of IHI turbos which aren't ancient and weren't made in the 90's. The updated (ie current) version of the RHC6 family is the RHE61 which is the same frame, same size, same everything except 2000'ish rather than 90'ish.

Note that the airflow rate for the RHE61 is 3.3 m³/min - 17.7m³/min or 116.5- 618 CFM. Now that we've gotten that taken care of, we'll move onto the actual flow maps. Here is the entire updated family of IHI turbos:



Note that the RHE61 barely passes the 20m³/min mark and that spooling the turbo that fast would be the equivalent of trying to boost a VJ11 to 30 psi. As said, the choke flow is 17.5 m³/min.

What does this all mean? Why and I posting pictures of turbos that aren't the turbo in question? Glad you asked.

Here is the archaic RHB3-RHC9 compressor maps:



The RHC6 family tops out at 17.5 m³/min or 620 CFM.





All that and I haven't even gotten into how the GM8 is the worst out them all.

The GM8 has the wastegate flapper in the exhaust elbow (which can't be used) and in order to use it, you'd have to use an external wastegate and a block off plate for the wastegate hole.

The GM3 has the wastegate flapper integrated into the exhaust housing the same way the Vj11 does.

Anyways, here is the GM3 with integrated wastegate:



Side view:



Now here's the GM8 with wastegate in the exhaust elbow that you can't use:





Unless you're going to put your exhaust out of the hood, make a manifold that has exhaust flow coming from underneath and the exhaust housing rotated, or a block-off plate and an external wastegate:


Last edited by SixSick6; 2-9-07 at 8:49..
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Old 7-4-06, 12:09   #2 (permalink)
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As far as the turbine, the GM8 measures 2.420" major and 2.030" minor. GM3 appears to be somewhat larger on both the compressor and minor turbine wheel. GM3 measures 2.150" minor on the turbine wheel.
http://www.mx6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131216 (Specs on my GM3 turbocharger)

The measurement for the GM8 would be closest to a Garrett Stage 1 turbine which measures 2.319" major 1.918" minor.

Measurements for Garrett turbines are as follows:

Stage 1- 2.319" major, 1.918" minor
Stage 2- 2.559" major, 2.122" minor
Stage 3- 2.559" major, 2.229" minor
Stage 5- 2.798" major, 2.439" minor

N- 2.922" major, 2.071" minor
O- 2.922" major, 2.296" minor
P- 2.922" major, 2.544" minor
Q- 3.111" major, 2.693" minor

The GM1-8 has the same T3 footprint (inlet flange) so any T3 inlet flange will work. You can usually track these down for less than $100 on eBay. Secret jewel that many haven't found out about yet and unscrupulous aftermarket companies like SSAutocrap haven't started duping yet.

FYI-There are already fake Holset, Cummins, Peterbilt floating around. I've even seen a fake John Deere in the shop.

Anyways, just an FYI. Use for whatever.

Last edited by SixSick6; 7-4-06 at 12:35..
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Old 7-4-06, 12:14   #3 (permalink)
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Did you get my PM

88 LX-T K&N,2.5" Turbo Back.15" KonigHoles.STS.ZombieChip.MBC.MSD SS,Boost guage.A/F Guage.Eibach Springs.FSTB/FSTB,R Disc's,Larger F/R Sway's,440's,FPR,FMIC,TB Turbo,Hardpipes. Sold 06/06, 14.2@97.51MPH.
94'LS KLZE,S-AFC,MSD6AL,SS-Headers,2.5" CB,CM Stage3,MX3 FW,CAI,Probinator chip,Konig 15",RRMounts, Illuminas, Sprint Springs, Brembo Slotts Rotors, Hawk Pads.
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Old 7-4-06, 12:40   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.JasonBH
Did you get my PM
Why would you write that here?

Anyways:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1998-...00463610QQrdZ1

*Not my auction*
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Old 7-4-06, 12:59   #5 (permalink)
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Nice post, like reading these attemptting to learn more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJason
Did you get my PM
I would bet he did, or else there'd be an automated message saying otherwise.

-Tyler

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Old 7-4-06, 13:27   #6 (permalink)
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EDIT- I suppose you could use the GM8 with exhaust elbow but you'd need to clock the turbine housing updside down and have your manifold expelling exhaust gas upwards.

See rebel2k4's MX3 as an example:



Same concept. Whether or not there would be room is another story:



You'd definately have to design a new exhaust manifold though.

Last edited by SixSick6; 7-4-06 at 13:34..
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Old 7-6-06, 22:42   #7 (permalink)
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So, this is just the turbo off the 6.5 GM diesel?? There are so many of those around here, it's not even funny. That would be sweet if I could grab one of those, and go have some crazy action. Well, after making it fit, and taking care of fuel and all that other jazz.

I've wondered for a long time whether or not this turbo was worth a darn, cause I see them multiple times weekly.

Jesus Saves.
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'94 PGT: ATX ZE highstall, sitting there... i miss driving you *sigh*
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Old 7-7-06, 13:54   #8 (permalink)
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Ive allready got a KLZE... I could build my KL03 for boost..

88 LX-T K&N,2.5" Turbo Back.15" KonigHoles.STS.ZombieChip.MBC.MSD SS,Boost guage.A/F Guage.Eibach Springs.FSTB/FSTB,R Disc's,Larger F/R Sway's,440's,FPR,FMIC,TB Turbo,Hardpipes. Sold 06/06, 14.2@97.51MPH.
94'LS KLZE,S-AFC,MSD6AL,SS-Headers,2.5" CB,CM Stage3,MX3 FW,CAI,Probinator chip,Konig 15",RRMounts, Illuminas, Sprint Springs, Brembo Slotts Rotors, Hawk Pads.
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Old 7-11-06, 14:03   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevin
So, this is just the turbo off the 6.5 GM diesel?? There are so many of those around here, it's not even funny. That would be sweet if I could grab one of those, and go have some crazy action. Well, after making it fit, and taking care of fuel and all that other jazz.

I've wondered for a long time whether or not this turbo was worth a darn, cause I see them multiple times weekly.
They're worth alot more these days seeing as people are realizing the potential of used diesel turbos over high dollar numbers that perform equal or less for 20x more.

Just an FYI- They're not small:



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Old 7-11-06, 18:02   #10 (permalink)
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Yep, that's the one I'm thinking of for sure. We have like 3 of them on the shelf right now. lol

It's a little big for me, but maybe I'll be thinking about one on the probe when I go to get my turbo stuff done on that.

Thanks for the pictures! Way to rock the Wilson!

Also, not trying to be a bother, but I'm not the best at reading these charts and everything (working on it) but on say an f2t, what boost would you have to run it at to keep the turbo in it's efficiency range? I myself am not planning on using this turbo on this motor, but just for sheer curiousity sake, what would you need?

Don't they run like 12 or 15 psi on the 6.5 v-8?? Those are just the numbers that come to mind off-hand.

Last edited by Nevin; 7-11-06 at 18:07..

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Old 7-11-06, 19:00   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Here is the TO4B S which has a max choke flow of 37 lbs/min or roughly 17.7 m/min which equates to roughly 625 CFM. Take the rules of 150 CFM per 100 hp and you'll see that the TO4B S is capable of enough flow for 300~500+ hp.
The problem is that that 'max choke flow' is at only like 20psi. With about an 85% VE the F2t will only flow like 415cfm ~ 276hp @ 5,500rpm. Even with 100% VE, our 2.2 @ 5,500 will only flow about 490cfm ~ 325hp with 20psi. Still - great turbo for the price.

Last edited by n2o_matt; 7-11-06 at 19:08..

'91 GT - Holset HE351VE (VGT) and MS - FS/Part Out!
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Old 7-11-06, 19:14   #12 (permalink)
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.. that don't seem right...

230k miles on my mx-6. dx 5 speed 17.56 @ 76.16mph .... k&n...flowmaster 40 series......no other mods.... my DD. new 1993 vw fox 5 speed 121k miles FREE AND RUNS GREAT 18.89 @67mph !!!! can't wait for my other vw to be turbo'd.
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Old 7-11-06, 19:23   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu_biggie
.. that don't seem right...
what doesn't seem right?

'91 GT - Holset HE351VE (VGT) and MS - FS/Part Out!
'91 B2200 - new home for the f2t
'96 240sx - ebay build + EFR turbo and MS
ex-MTSU Formula SAE - not mine, but i got to build it and drive it!
My IHI turbo page
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Old 7-11-06, 19:58   #14 (permalink)
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i'm not sure it just don't click in my head. it just seems like the trubo would flow more than that. and at 625 cfm it sould make alot more power even with 85% ve.

230k miles on my mx-6. dx 5 speed 17.56 @ 76.16mph .... k&n...flowmaster 40 series......no other mods.... my DD. new 1993 vw fox 5 speed 121k miles FREE AND RUNS GREAT 18.89 @67mph !!!! can't wait for my other vw to be turbo'd.
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Old 7-11-06, 21:04   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu_biggie
i'm not sure it just don't click in my head. it just seems like the trubo would flow more than that. and at 625 cfm it sould make alot more power even with 85% ve.
That is total flow. 625 CFM would be max flow, just as I said earlier. Same concept as trying to make a VJ11 work for all it's worth.

matt- quit talking about how much potential the F2 has or doesn't have using theoretical numbers. You've never tested the head on a flowbench and VE is theoretical anyways. You cannot say any certain hp limit for our engine and put a limit on that based on CFM. There are plenty of engines far smaller making 5x the amount. If you want to delve into engines making max hp that shouldn't be, take a look at any well built Honda. While you're at it take a look at any of the high powered 2.0 engines.

Last edited by SixSick6; 7-11-06 at 21:12..
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