so....performance probe....

[SixSick6]

Originally Posted by zlyricist

everyone wants to blame the 'head flow' of a f2 as the biggest reason it cant make high horsepower. if you knew anything you wouldnt blame the head design as it's biggest flaw. yes it is not ideal and wouldnt flow as well as a dohc at high rpms.....and i dont think the head flow tests of the f2 we have seen are completely accurate...

but.......what if the f2 revved to 7K safely, paired with the right head components and cam profile to make useable torque at those rpms? well than i reckon 400whp as being much more easily acheived

RPM is the most limiting thing to a f2, period.

YUP. Case in point many SOHC 240SX owners have reliable hp with basically the same stump puller.

[tyler886]

^^^ Thats coming from the guy who crys about the head design most out of anyone on this site

If there were a thread for every dumbass post on PP, Seans database would be full.

-Tyler

[defiler]

you sir, obviously have no clue what you are talking about. i said nothing about stroke

RPM is related to the stroke though, to an extent.


I dont think that every dyno that shows the flow dropping off like a rock after 5k or so could be wrong, no matter what turbo was installed...

[mx_masta]

The limiting factor for the F2 engine is without a doubt the lack of aftermarket support.

Thats what seperates it from the KA24 from a 240SX. Well that and 200cc.
Or if you want to get technical, from the NISSAN truck KA24. Seeing as how more of the 240SX's got the KA24 DOHC.

[mx_masta]

I dont think that every dyno that shows the flow dropping off like a rock after 5k or so could be wrong, no matter what turbo was installed...

That has to do with a lot more than just one thing.
It is a function of the engines design philosophy, all focused on low RPM power. (Long runner inlet, long stroke, small turbo)
And the overly rich tuning MAZDA used to maintain it's reliability reputation.

To say any one of those things is to blame for the F2T's relatively low power is foolish.

And with more aftermarket support each would be easily overcome.

[zlyricist]

Originally Posted by defiler

RPM is related to the stroke though, to an extent.

I dont think that every dyno that shows the flow dropping off like a rock after 5k or so could be wrong, no matter what turbo was installed...

rod ratio, head design, cam profile etc are not part of the point i am trying to make. i am talking about overall potential. if you want 500hp on just boost in a 2 liter, you need to be able to rev that bitch, the end. pull up a compressor map and plot a f2 at 6K rpms, and then a motor with the same displacment at 8k rpms. the advantage is clear, and cannot be contested

[TurboGT]

how the [fizzle] dont i know what im talking about. those stock internals only wish they could see 400 wheel hp... 350 from what ive gathered is pushing it. im very imformed about cars in general i just made a comment see if someone has ever done it obviously the blocks not going to hold 550+ hp so just though it would be a thread to see what people have done.

[mx_masta]

rod ratio, head design, cam profile etc are not part of the point i am trying to make. i am talking about overall potential. if you want 500hp on just boost in a 2 liter, you need to be able to rev that bitch,

Yes and how do you rev it? With aftermarket part support.
Cams, Solid lifters, Rods, Pistons, Intake mani, Exhaust mani, Turbo, Spark & Management.

There is no point in making a point, that while being correct, tells only half the story.

To be able to get to the revs high enough to make high hp 2 things are needed.
Bottom end integrity = aftermarket parts &
high rpm suited inlet / exhaust components = aftermarket parts or DIY - but I don't know too many on here that could DIY an inlet manifold for the correct resonant rpm.

DIY is more a case if it's bigger it must be better.

[gavin]

Originally Posted by mx_masta

The limiting factor for the F2 engine is without a doubt the lack of aftermarket support

Originally Posted by mx_masta

It is a function of the engines design philosophy, all focused on low RPM power. (Long runner inlet, long stroke, small turbo)
And the overly rich tuning MAZDA used to maintain it's reliability reputation.

To say any one of those things is to blame for the F2T's relatively low power is foolish

Originally Posted by mx_masta

To be able to get to the revs high enough to make high hp 2 things are needed.
Bottom end integrity = aftermarket parts &
high rpm suited inlet / exhaust components = aftermarket parts or DIY - but I don't know too many on here that could DIY an inlet manifold for the correct resonant rpm.

DIY is more a case if it's bigger it must be better

I like this guy

Gavin

[mx_masta]

Thanks G

[zlyricist]

aftermarket is a factor, but definitely not the most limiting factor for overall potential. the f2 will never have the potential of that of a 4g63, or h22, etc regardless of how much aftermarket is available. we can go back and forth all day, but the fact remains

[gavin]

so?

Seriously. Is that the only point to maximizing the full potential of an engine, any engine?.. to match the output of another manufacturers engine? If so, its no wonder people here are disappointed....and will continue to be so.

Gavin

[zlyricist]

i think you would be suprised gavin. i belive that is the mentality of a lot of people on car forums, and that is why a lot of people have moved on. as long as people know what they are driving and are realistic about it, then everyone's happy and threads like this dont come about

hell im still happy with the platform after all this time, and probably will be for a few more years, its not a high horsepower 4g63, but its also not something you see every day

[cuJe5ter]

i guess i'll wait "until i know something" to talk to u.

go ahead and spread your "amazing kar gnawledge" while i'm gone.

[defiler]

obviously the blocks not going to hold 550+ hp

Says who? You? Where did you get this magical information from? Obviosuyl nobody has taken it that far, so you have no way of knowing if the block will hold. Being a cast iron block and plenty of beef on the block, I dont see it failing at all. This isnt some cheap aluminum block.




The only thing more stupid than your comments is the fact that instead of admitting you have a problem with your facts, you're trying to defend the BS you're posting