Fittinf the VF34 to the F2T part 1.5

**chief tool** · 5-8-08, 3:10

carrying on from this thread

http://www.mx6.com/forums/1g-mx6-for...ts-piccis.html (fitting the VF34 to the F2T part 1, lots of piccis)

Here is part 1.5....why not part 2 you ask .... its still not in the car, this part is working out the dump/down pipe and water connections.

I decided that owing to the size of my garage, I cant really work on the car and have room to cut and weld....so I decided the best way to go about making a jig for the turbine exit pipe was to make up a dummy engine :

Thankfully I had enough parts lying around..F2 block and 8 valve head did the trick. The 8 valve head has the same exhaust flange position as the 12 valve.
I included both a p/s and a/c as my car will have both of these and realisitically this is where the trouble is going to be at, clearing the a/c.

next I fitted the turbo and exhaust manifold to see how much room I had to play with :

not much is the answer....all my grand plans of using a divorced wastegate tube have just gone out the window, there is just over 3 inches between the turbo and the a/c

THis is where you have to like MHI with the TD05H it has an outlet flange thats slanted down, taking away some of the pain of doing this sort of thing.

I decided my only option was going to be just to cut the 2.5 inch u-bend at an oblique angle, and then shape it to fit the flange.

The shaping and cutting was relatively easy....welding it using nothing more than a stick welder...hmmm...I thought about taking it up the road to an exhaust shop..but after I tacked it together, I though how hard can it be...
its taken a couple of goes to end up with something thats more weld than slag.

here is a distant shot

more photos on the pipe tomorrow, when I have another crack at it. At least its welded from inside and out...so I dont think its going to fall apart, but its far from tidy looking. I have to add the O2 bung and work out where the next flange is going to sit before it joins the rest of the system.

At least it looks like its going to clear everything, but its still a bit close to the a/c for my liking..its going to need a heat shield if there is room or heat wrap tape if there isnt.

**fredio54** · 5-8-08, 3:23

Quote:

but its far from tidy looking.

Did you weld that with stick or what? :-)

**chief tool** · 5-8-08, 3:34

I am from the brazing/soldering/welding with gas school...but I am not allowed to keep acytlene cyclinders in my garage....I got some practice with the arc on some outdoor furniture.

I agree its looks pretty [fizzle]ed but I'll cover it all up with paint, so no one will know hehe.

**SABBAi** · 5-8-08, 5:09

The pipe angle looks good. Plenty of room to get an O2 sensor in there. O2 bungs are also cheap and easy to weld in. I would choose the position you want the sensor, mark it an give the area a bit of a tap with a hammer and remove enough material to get the bung t fit in snuggly. I also found that once I had the general shape of the hole, get your trusty Dremel out and try to get the hole as round as possible. Don't forget your hammer if the O2 bung rocks about a bit!

It really is a pity about the welding. Stick welding is a bit of an art. Some tips from when I was doing a fair amount is the heat the rods up in the oven. If you have a torch, heat the area up that you want to weld. It worked well for me.

Keep it up.

**fredio54** · 5-8-08, 6:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief tool

but I am not allowed to keep acytlene cyclinders in my garage...

Ey? Why not??

I just can't help but think that it is full of pin holes :-( I guess you'll find out sooner or later. At least it is post turbo so it will only screw up your O2 reading at worst.

Stick may be cheap, but unless you are really good with it (yes, I've tried, no I'm no good either) it's not a goer. Flux core is the same... Getting a MIG, even a light cheap arse chinese one is well worth it.

Are you allowed to store other high pressure bottles? innert gasses? dive bottles? etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by SABBAi

I would choose the position you want the sensor

Choose that down stream quite a bit (1 foot or more).

Quote:

It really is a pity about the welding. Stick welding is a bitch. Some tips from when I was doing a fair amount is the heat the rods up in the oven. If you have a torch, heat the area up that you want to weld. It worked well for me.

Good tips, a bit of extra pre absorbed heat is always a bonus electrically welding. I fixed your comment though :-p ;-)

Some of my stick welding is holding the roof of my dad's house on... Poor old bugger lol.

Fred.

**chief tool** · 5-8-08, 19:30

It could be full of pin holes...I might block up both ends and do a bubble test and see how bad it really is

Local govt regulations here stop you storing certain types of flammable liquids and gasses..your only allowed 10L of mower fuel and 9kg of propane for BBQ.

Its one of those things that makes living close to the city annoying.

I have more pipe bends and flanges, so if this turns out no good, I'll go with the original plan, and cut another one and have it Professionally welded....i've only burned up $40 at this stage if it doesnt work.

The o2 sensor hole....I have seen alot of argument about its position on this forum. I am fitting 2, one for the ECU and one for the wideband.
I was originally going to fit the ECU one in more or less the factory position, and move the wideband to be down nearer to the sump.

My GC has the ECU o2 sensor about 400mm from the turbo outlet, I found that the car has a slight throttle off hesitation since the sensor was moved(its factory postion is similar to the GD)
I put this down to the time taken for the gasses to travel from the engine to where the sensor is..and being only 1 wire sensors, on a relatively small engine and a big exhaust, will it really get hot enough there ? especially when driven sedately.
Problem is for me, the car needs to be able to handle to being driven not far in heavy traffic where it will barely warm up...then being lashed to within an inch of its life.....two extremes.

Oh yeah...and my outdoor furniture hasnt fallen apart yet...but welding steel flat bar is a whole lot easier with stick..and who cares about pin holes. but no one heavier than me (95kg) has sat on the chairs tho. lol

**SixSick6** · 5-9-08, 0:33

Hmmmm. Maybe it's just the picture but I don't like that exit angle.

compnut21 · 5-9-08, 0:36

my personal opinion is remove the a/c and just do a nice downpipe.

**fredio54** · 5-9-08, 2:12

Exit angle isn't brilliant, but it's ok and will work well enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by compnut21

my personal opinion is remove the a/c and just do a nice downpipe.

Have you been to ozzy?? :-p

narrow band RELIES on being close to the turbo to keep hot (even heated ones). They ONLY work right when hot you see... Wide band on the other hand has a big heater and needs to be regulated to an exact temperature to be accurate. Putting it close to the turbo can make it too hot and cause bad readings and early failure.

Hope that helps.

compnut21 · 5-9-08, 2:21

ive done 115* summer in virgina without an a/c. its what windows/those sweet ass mazda vent switches are for.

**SixSick6** · 5-9-08, 3:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredio54

Exit angle isn't brilliant, but it's ok and will work well enough

Well enough for what....daily driving at low boost? I'd think that that steep angle will cause unneccessary backpressure and high EGT's. On the otherhand it may not be much worse than the stock F2T elbow. Do you have a better picture of it?- dead on.

I'm by no means criticizing either. Just throwing out thoughts.

**fredio54** · 5-9-08, 5:05

trick is that it is curved, so should be fairly smooth and the sheer size of it will keep turbulence and back pressure down. The BB and biggererness of the turbo should help much more than that hinders I reckon. Hard to know without giving it a shot though really. So long as it doesn't leak up stream of the O2 it's good enough (for whatever) :-)

**chief tool** · 5-9-08, 5:14

I am open to suggestions about the angle....one thing tho, the a/c stays.

This car is a primarily a daily driver and I'll be running it up to the limit of the stock injectors. its will run like that for a while as once this turbo goes on, I want to concentrate on the FE3 build for the other car.

Here are some shots of the pipe itself, disregard the welding....I've been experimenting on it, to see if I can fill up the holes....with limited success.

So I am pretty much to going to make another one, but I just cant see how I am going to squeeze a 2.5" pipe in there any other way...its like trying to jam an elephant in a closet.

The stock exit pipe isnt particularly good either, but the pipe diameter is smaller, so it has to be worse in flow.

I though about using a much larger pipe, one wide enough to cover the width of the exhaust flange and then flattening it to give me a/c clearance, hopefull keeping the cross sectional area as large as possible....but I cant see that it'll be any better than what I have done plus it'll be alot harder to make.
one of the problems is that I have only 3.5" to work with on the wide side and 2.5" on the narrow side.

**fredio54** · 5-9-08, 7:05

The only real improvement would be to use a tighter radius 2.5 off the turbine outlet and then put your large radius onto that and weld around (with a MIG). Of course you'd need to divorce the gate to do that. If you are leaving the gate in the same pipe, it seems pretty good to me provided the flapper can open enough.

**SixSick6** · 5-9-08, 13:23

Ohhh Pfffft....thats fine.

5-8-08, 3:10	#1 (permalink)
chief tool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 35 iTrader: (1)	Fittinf the VF34 to the F2T part 1.5 carrying on from this thread http://www.mx6.com/forums/1g-mx6-for...ts-piccis.html (fitting the VF34 to the F2T part 1, lots of piccis) Here is part 1.5....why not part 2 you ask .... its still not in the car, this part is working out the dump/down pipe and water connections. I decided that owing to the size of my garage, I cant really work on the car and have room to cut and weld....so I decided the best way to go about making a jig for the turbine exit pipe was to make up a dummy engine : Thankfully I had enough parts lying around..F2 block and 8 valve head did the trick. The 8 valve head has the same exhaust flange position as the 12 valve. I included both a p/s and a/c as my car will have both of these and realisitically this is where the trouble is going to be at, clearing the a/c. next I fitted the turbo and exhaust manifold to see how much room I had to play with : not much is the answer....all my grand plans of using a divorced wastegate tube have just gone out the window, there is just over 3 inches between the turbo and the a/c THis is where you have to like MHI with the TD05H it has an outlet flange thats slanted down, taking away some of the pain of doing this sort of thing. I decided my only option was going to be just to cut the 2.5 inch u-bend at an oblique angle, and then shape it to fit the flange. The shaping and cutting was relatively easy....welding it using nothing more than a stick welder...hmmm...I thought about taking it up the road to an exhaust shop..but after I tacked it together, I though how hard can it be... its taken a couple of goes to end up with something thats more weld than slag. here is a distant shot more photos on the pipe tomorrow, when I have another crack at it. At least its welded from inside and out...so I dont think its going to fall apart, but its far from tidy looking. I have to add the O2 bung and work out where the next flange is going to sit before it joins the rest of the system. At least it looks like its going to clear everything, but its still a bit close to the a/c for my liking..its going to need a heat shield if there is room or heat wrap tape if there isnt.
	84 626 sedan FE SOHC turbo (sleeper) 89 626 5 door F2T 90 323 sedan B6 SOHC Slug-o-matic DD

5-8-08, 3:34	#3 (permalink)
chief tool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 35 iTrader: (1)	I am from the brazing/soldering/welding with gas school...but I am not allowed to keep acytlene cyclinders in my garage....I got some practice with the arc on some outdoor furniture. I agree its looks pretty [fizzle]ed but I'll cover it all up with paint, so no one will know hehe.
	84 626 sedan FE SOHC turbo (sleeper) 89 626 5 door F2T 90 323 sedan B6 SOHC Slug-o-matic DD

5-8-08, 5:09	#4 (permalink)
SABBAi Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (1)	The pipe angle looks good. Plenty of room to get an O2 sensor in there. O2 bungs are also cheap and easy to weld in. I would choose the position you want the sensor, mark it an give the area a bit of a tap with a hammer and remove enough material to get the bung t fit in snuggly. I also found that once I had the general shape of the hole, get your trusty Dremel out and try to get the hole as round as possible. Don't forget your hammer if the O2 bung rocks about a bit! It really is a pity about the welding. Stick welding is a bit of an art. Some tips from when I was doing a fair amount is the heat the rods up in the oven. If you have a torch, heat the area up that you want to weld. It worked well for me. Keep it up.
	Teh Telstar can NEVAH lose!

5-8-08, 19:30	#6 (permalink)
chief tool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 35 iTrader: (1)	It could be full of pin holes...I might block up both ends and do a bubble test and see how bad it really is Local govt regulations here stop you storing certain types of flammable liquids and gasses..your only allowed 10L of mower fuel and 9kg of propane for BBQ. Its one of those things that makes living close to the city annoying. I have more pipe bends and flanges, so if this turns out no good, I'll go with the original plan, and cut another one and have it Professionally welded....i've only burned up $40 at this stage if it doesnt work. The o2 sensor hole....I have seen alot of argument about its position on this forum. I am fitting 2, one for the ECU and one for the wideband. I was originally going to fit the ECU one in more or less the factory position, and move the wideband to be down nearer to the sump. My GC has the ECU o2 sensor about 400mm from the turbo outlet, I found that the car has a slight throttle off hesitation since the sensor was moved(its factory postion is similar to the GD) I put this down to the time taken for the gasses to travel from the engine to where the sensor is..and being only 1 wire sensors, on a relatively small engine and a big exhaust, will it really get hot enough there ? especially when driven sedately. Problem is for me, the car needs to be able to handle to being driven not far in heavy traffic where it will barely warm up...then being lashed to within an inch of its life.....two extremes. Oh yeah...and my outdoor furniture hasnt fallen apart yet...but welding steel flat bar is a whole lot easier with stick..and who cares about pin holes. but no one heavier than me (95kg) has sat on the chairs tho. lol
	84 626 sedan FE SOHC turbo (sleeper) 89 626 5 door F2T 90 323 sedan B6 SOHC Slug-o-matic DD

5-9-08, 0:36	#8 (permalink)
compnut21 4ws whore. Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Olympia, WA iTrader: (2)	my personal opinion is remove the a/c and just do a nice downpipe.
	89 GT 4WS/Megasquirt/Zebel o2/2.5" Exhaust/10ish psi 1989 Wiring Diagram PDF F2T Partout.

5-9-08, 2:21	#10 (permalink)
compnut21 4ws whore. Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Olympia, WA iTrader: (2)	ive done 115* summer in virgina without an a/c. its what windows/those sweet ass mazda vent switches are for.
	89 GT 4WS/Megasquirt/Zebel o2/2.5" Exhaust/10ish psi 1989 Wiring Diagram PDF F2T Partout.

5-9-08, 5:05	#12 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	trick is that it is curved, so should be fairly smooth and the sheer size of it will keep turbulence and back pressure down. The BB and biggererness of the turbo should help much more than that hinders I reckon. Hard to know without giving it a shot though really. So long as it doesn't leak up stream of the O2 it's good enough (for whatever) :-)
	DIYEFI.org - TRUE DIY engine management Mazda FE3/FE-DOHC Master Index Thread (work in progress) Mazda truck with FE-DOHC/FE3 "BIG like your house" Holset Turbo drinking 2.2 litres of fuel per minute ~= 385hp crank RIP SleepCounter :-( we will miss you! - RIP fredio54 :-( will we miss you?

5-9-08, 5:14	#13 (permalink)
chief tool Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 35 iTrader: (1)	I am open to suggestions about the angle....one thing tho, the a/c stays. This car is a primarily a daily driver and I'll be running it up to the limit of the stock injectors. its will run like that for a while as once this turbo goes on, I want to concentrate on the FE3 build for the other car. Here are some shots of the pipe itself, disregard the welding....I've been experimenting on it, to see if I can fill up the holes....with limited success. So I am pretty much to going to make another one, but I just cant see how I am going to squeeze a 2.5" pipe in there any other way...its like trying to jam an elephant in a closet. The stock exit pipe isnt particularly good either, but the pipe diameter is smaller, so it has to be worse in flow. I though about using a much larger pipe, one wide enough to cover the width of the exhaust flange and then flattening it to give me a/c clearance, hopefull keeping the cross sectional area as large as possible....but I cant see that it'll be any better than what I have done plus it'll be alot harder to make. one of the problems is that I have only 3.5" to work with on the wide side and 2.5" on the narrow side.
	84 626 sedan FE SOHC turbo (sleeper) 89 626 5 door F2T 90 323 sedan B6 SOHC Slug-o-matic DD

5-9-08, 7:05	#14 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	The only real improvement would be to use a tighter radius 2.5 off the turbine outlet and then put your large radius onto that and weld around (with a MIG). Of course you'd need to divorce the gate to do that. If you are leaving the gate in the same pipe, it seems pretty good to me provided the flapper can open enough.
	DIYEFI.org - TRUE DIY engine management Mazda FE3/FE-DOHC Master Index Thread (work in progress) Mazda truck with FE-DOHC/FE3 "BIG like your house" Holset Turbo drinking 2.2 litres of fuel per minute ~= 385hp crank RIP SleepCounter :-( we will miss you! - RIP fredio54 :-( will we miss you?