making turbo spool faster....any NEW ideas - Page 3

**mx6GT91** · 3-31-04, 7:47

Arent superchargers more of a top end mod??? I though that they have some lag also. My friend has one on his Silverado and he says its pretty slow down low. Slower than before.

**85gts** · 3-31-04, 14:41

depends on what type of supercharger you are talking about. there are three different types. technically two of them are almost the same. there is the centrifugal type, roots type and a screw type. the last two are what they call positive displacement chargers and they produce power right off of idle. the centrifugal one is like a turbo in that as it spins faster it makes more boost. the limit of this supercharger is the rp range. the roots blower doesn't actually "compress" the air. just shoving more air into the motor and the screw type does what the roots one does but while also compressing the air.

**FE3T** · 3-31-04, 15:04

I guess running higher CR and have an ignition curve getting the engine close too knocking all the way untill boost are reached could reduse the amount of lag.

But this would probably make a standalone nessecary too tune everything as close too the limits as possible.

**SixSick6** · 3-31-04, 15:43

or you could use an MSD 6BTM, but all of this superturbocharger talk is insane. maybe not for larger motors..but for the 2.2..and the amount of limited engine bay space and constraints of the head itself..... this...supercharger/turbocharger/superturbosupercharger talk is pointless

**crusty** · 3-31-04, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by SixSick6

this...supercharger/turbocharger/superturbosupercharger talk is pointless

How about a turbosupersuperduperturbosupercharger ? That might just be crazy enough to work.

Quote:

if you are just going to mock me...please don't post.

I don't think I could sleep at night if I didn't point out how dumb this thread is.

Do you really think, honestly, that in the space of one thread you are going to revolutionise forced induction for the world? Really?
When I was 12, I had a dream of making an internal combustion engine out of wood and tin foil, my only stumbling block was how to make iddy biddy tiny little spark plugs......well, that, and the fact that my idea WAS JUST PLAIN STUPID.

You need to except that same fact, and move on. A turbo was never designed to take lateral load on the shaft, it won't work, accept it. That's why Garrett don't make an adaptor to replace the turbine housing with a pulley, don't you think if it were a good idea that Garrett or any one of the turbo manufactures would have considered it. Or are you smarter then all their R&D teams.
When you float such a ludicrous idea on a open forum you need to brace yourself for a bit of negativity, that's life, I'm guessing you're very young.
EDIT*oh my god, you're 26 that kinda makes it worse.*

Do you really find that lag is a problem with our engines, I don't.

What mods do you actually have to your engine, have you exhausted (pardon the pun) all conventional methods of improving TC performance?

I'm going out on a limb here and guessing "NO".

**el norm** · 3-31-04, 19:02

hmm i'm just replying to the original post, the idea to have a injector in your exhaust manny is just plain crazy, i don't know how safe i'd feel about putting a fuel line going right on your exhaust many..... but it did spark another idea(no pun intended), how bout water injection into the exhaust manny... basically at the right amount it would instantly vaporize expand and cause more pressure through your exhaust... sure it probably would be very compliucated having a system that starts dumping water at the right manifold temp and maybe right engine speed too... ect... Probably way too much work to test something like this out....

**crusty** · 3-31-04, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by el norm

, how bout water injection into the exhaust manny... basically at the right amount it would instantly vaporize expand and cause more pressure through your exhaust... ..

.......Cooling the exhaust gasses & slowing them down.

Q.Where does that get you?
A.back to square 1

The thought of driving down the road with steam billowing out the exhaust doesn't really appeal to me either.
Nor the idea of squirting cool water on a red hot piece of CAST iron. can you say, "crack"?

The recognized way of reducing lag in a tc engine is to inject NO2, whats wrong with just doing something that works.

Next thing we know 85GTS will be asking if anyone has any ideas for a different shaped wheel.....maybe a triangle.

**itscard0man** · 3-31-04, 20:27

crack is a hell of a drug

**el norm** · 3-31-04, 20:34

hmm triangles... why wouldn't that work?

Jon · 3-31-04, 21:26

Jesus. I thought there were smart people on this forum.

to Crusty.

**White90MX6** · 3-31-04, 21:54

I was always under the impression that the faster the exhaust gases the better? Why would you want to slow it down? The fact that the gas expands going into a bigger volume in the exhaust will do more than chucking water in there.

**85gts** · 3-31-04, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by crusty

You need to except that same fact, and move on. A turbo was never designed to take lateral load on the shaft, it won't work, accept it. That's why Garrett don't make an adaptor to replace the turbine housing with a pulley, don't you think if it were a good idea that Garrett or any one of the turbo manufactures would have considered it. Or are you smarter then all their R&D teams.

explain the centrifugal supercharger then? it's a friggin turbo with a wheel!!!
either vortech or paxton. and why would a TURBO company have R&D on SUPERCHARGERS anyway.

Jon · 3-31-04, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by 85gts

explain the centrifugal supercharger then? it's a friggin turbo with a wheel!!!
either vortech or paxton. and why would a TURBO company have R&D on SUPERCHARGERS anyway.

Centrifugal superchargers have a ball bearing center section that are designed to withstand the additional laterial load from a belt.

Fluid bearings won't be able to do that.

**crusty** · 4-1-04, 2:49

Quote:

explain the centrifugal supercharger then?

The biggest drawback of the centrifugal supercharger is it's inability to make high levels of boost at low engine rpms. Typically, a centrifugal supercharger will make it's maximum (quoted) boost at the engine's redline rpm and nearly nothing at 1500-2000 engine rpm. Boost builds exponentially with engine rpm, meaning that boost comes on very quickly in the upper half of the powerband. http://rcspoolers.com/cent_sc_explain.htm

So hows that going to help your lag issue?

Google is your friend.

**85gts** · 4-1-04, 6:23

there are ball bearing turbo's right.
sorry crusty...that was more a reply about the turbo into a supercharger thread. if i wanted to worry about lag i would put a roots or screw type supercharger

3-31-04, 7:47	#31 (permalink)
mx6GT91 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 22 iTrader: (0)	Arent superchargers more of a top end mod??? I though that they have some lag also. My friend has one on his Silverado and he says its pretty slow down low. Slower than before.
	Anyone want a NICE 1G? :-/

3-31-04, 15:04	#33 (permalink)
FE3T Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Just north of Lillehammer, Norway Age: 38 iTrader: (0)	I guess running higher CR and have an ignition curve getting the engine close too knocking all the way untill boost are reached could reduse the amount of lag. But this would probably make a standalone nessecary too tune everything as close too the limits as possible.
	88 Mazda 626 Coupe FE DOHC, Schwitzer turbo on homemade manifold, MX6 IC with homemade piping,modyfied 330cc injectors currently running 7,5psi.... WRECKED by a truck Sunday 13/01-08

3-31-04, 20:27	#38 (permalink)
itscard0man Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NYC, NY, USA iTrader: (0)	crack is a hell of a drug
	ENGINE 3" cat-back exhaust, APEXi N1 muffler, filled mounts, Walbro255lph pump,sabb93 fmic, 2.25" IC press bent piping,turboxs Type-H RFL bov ,turboxs boostcontroller 16psi stock turbo,magnacore 10mm wires, ngkV-power plugs, over bored .020 over, ported & polished head, double valve springs, SS valves, 5 angle head job, ZombieSS chip EXTERIOR R32GTR Frontend conversionR32GTR SideSkirts, R32GTR Wing ,Rx7FD Rims, Tokicoblue struts, Eibach springs http://www.cardomain.com/id/cardo

3-31-04, 21:54	#41 (permalink)
White90MX6 Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: iTrader: (0)	I was always under the impression that the faster the exhaust gases the better? Why would you want to slow it down? The fact that the gas expands going into a bigger volume in the exhaust will do more than chucking water in there.
	150kW ATW... 12psi.

3-31-04, 14:41	#32 (permalink)
85gts Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hilo, HI, USA Age: 31 iTrader: (0)	depends on what type of supercharger you are talking about. there are three different types. technically two of them are almost the same. there is the centrifugal type, roots type and a screw type. the last two are what they call positive displacement chargers and they produce power right off of idle. the centrifugal one is like a turbo in that as it spins faster it makes more boost. the limit of this supercharger is the rp range. the roots blower doesn't actually "compress" the air. just shoving more air into the motor and the screw type does what the roots one does but while also compressing the air.

3-31-04, 15:43	#34 (permalink)
SixSick6 Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego, CA, USA Age: 32 iTrader: (2)	or you could use an MSD 6BTM, but all of this superturbocharger talk is insane. maybe not for larger motors..but for the 2.2..and the amount of limited engine bay space and constraints of the head itself..... this...supercharger/turbocharger/superturbosupercharger talk is pointless

3-31-04, 19:02	#36 (permalink)
el norm Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Jose, CA, USA Age: 27 iTrader: (0)	hmm i'm just replying to the original post, the idea to have a injector in your exhaust manny is just plain crazy, i don't know how safe i'd feel about putting a fuel line going right on your exhaust many..... but it did spark another idea(no pun intended), how bout water injection into the exhaust manny... basically at the right amount it would instantly vaporize expand and cause more pressure through your exhaust... sure it probably would be very compliucated having a system that starts dumping water at the right manifold temp and maybe right engine speed too... ect... Probably way too much work to test something like this out....

3-31-04, 20:34	#39 (permalink)
el norm Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Jose, CA, USA Age: 27 iTrader: (0)	hmm triangles... why wouldn't that work?

3-31-04, 21:26	#40 (permalink)
Jon Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Redmond, WA, USA iTrader: (0)	Jesus. I thought there were smart people on this forum. to Crusty.

4-1-04, 6:23	#45 (permalink)
85gts Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hilo, HI, USA Age: 31 iTrader: (0)	there are ball bearing turbo's right. sorry crusty...that was more a reply about the turbo into a supercharger thread. if i wanted to worry about lag i would put a roots or screw type supercharger