Anyone ever taken the transmission appart without removing it?

[Mazda Carnage]

I put a Laken LSD in on of my trany's, the trany came with verry litle fluid in it and was dirty pretty sure it was the 89 fluid from the factory, what was left of it (was black), everything was in good shape but dirty, rinced everything in a parts cleaner filled with Varsol/Thiner/disel fuel, got light headed, had to change the 5/reverse shift rod end and put it on the shift rod backwards, didnt notice and installed it that way.
Now the trany is hard to get in reverse, wont stay in 5ht and has no backup light.
Tomorrow i will try and dissasemble the trany without removing it from the car and fixing my F@#K-UP, has any one dissasembled the trany without removing it from the car?
I will know tomorrow if it can be done or not? but if anyone knows already I would apreciate them sharing.

[SixSick6]

5th gear can be dealt with without removing the transmission. The hardest part is having big hands and the splash shield being in the way. It's not cake to do but can be done.

[anarchyx34]

I've done it. It sucks. But it's doable. The problem is that the trans is not meant to be re assembled sitting sideways. Putting the shift lockout pins back together for example required lots of patience. I truthfully would suggest taking it out of the car.

[Mazda Carnage]

The way I see it, I have to take the trany appart either way, I will try it on the car, if it doesnt go well I will pull the last piece of housing and reassemble it on the ground.

[Five8]

please snap some pics, im probably headed in the same direction pretty soon... and how available is that LSD? price?

[Mazda Carnage]

Originally Posted by Five8

please snap some pics, im probably headed in the same direction pretty soon... and how available is that LSD? price?

Larken made a couple of them, roughly from the mesurements of the Phantom Grip I had, he foud some springs...
I had to harden it myself and shave it, install the Pahntom Grip dowel pins (drilled the holles before I hardened it).

Here is Larken's LSD installed:


Here is the Phantom Grip LSD, (Notice the 5th/reverse shift rod assembly to the left mocking me)



Larken is a bit wider, wich would lighten the load on the diff, shaft when it's being torked.

The Phantom Grip requires a break in of 500milles ? so I'm thinking the same for Larkens.
He runs the firts one in his car and seemed disapointed with it's effect, I am thinking it will work as good as the PG if not better, the springs are stiffer in Larkens then the stck PG springs, I cant tell much with winter tires on in 30 below weather, and with the stage 4 act in there both wheels locked up before I installed it, but I will compare it to the PG once i break it in, My hopes is that it does the same for the handling as the PG, that seems to make the car turn nicer and make cleaner lane changes, it should also help with traction in the winter.

It's funy but both my red MX6's have stage 4 clutches, oversized CV-joints, LDS differentials (not nice once like the GURU but).
The first time around it cost me an arm and a leg for this setup.
The second time cost a set of used spindels, some trany seals, the clutch came i a car I bought, the CV-joints and Hubbs were kicking aroud the shop
since I replaced them with a Gino'ed set thats chromed up I got in a trade with CV-tech.
Witch is probably why I put the shaft in backwards, I couldnt have a nice set-up like this that easy? had to be more to it, some hard work and good deals wernt enough to pay out! Having to rebuild the trany twice in one week, that makes more sense in my world .

I should be out breaking in the LSD and enjoying myself, but no I'm putting off going to the shop cause I'm going to get dirty.

I can drive the car, just have to work to find reverse, and you could hold the shifter in fith by hand (dont think I will) but the car needs reverse light to pass saffety, and I wanted to get that dont this week before I get a chance to break bend or wear out anything else.

I also held off installing the T-Bird and P&P'ed manifold and head with custom TB, I figured in this cold icy weather, no good would come of that, find a ditch or a tree, or detonate at 15lbs in the cold weather.

I could just remove the sensor for the reverse lights, put the trany in reverse and dill a divet in the shift rod at the right spot, Its not like they'll be trying 5th at the saffety, but that would be a lazy easy solution and wouldnt make me enjoy the car very much, so soon I will go do what I have to do, so latter I can do what I whant to do. (Going for a ride in 30 below weather isnt all that fun anyway). This sucks!

Larken makes CnC machine tables, some of witch cost as much as I've put in the blue 4door/red 2door 88, trust me it's alot, so he doesnt seem interseted in making and selling car parts for finacial gain, however he does like to help out MX6'ers, I am sure if mine test good then I can easely convince him to make more for me and the rest of you who want some, they wont be near the cost of the PG version. So we will see.

For those interested, when I say test I mean a highly sophisticated method that I use to mesures gforces, gravety, turn speed velocity and traction, all this information is sent to my car seat and evaluated by my ass, then my ass can compare the new results with those experinced in the other car with the PG, so dont worry I'm on the cutting egde of technology, and my findings cant be anything else but fact.

[Five8]

thanks for all the great info. i backed the mx6 into the garage for a build and im still acquiring parts and leeching as much info from you guys as possible. i'm going to need to do a clutch soon and an lsd is a no-brainer if i can find one while the car is down...

::karma::

[Mazda Carnage]

Originally Posted by Five8

please snap some pics, im probably headed in the same direction pretty soon... and how available is that LSD? price?

I have a couple of pict of the original rebuid two days ago, but if you are taking it appart, put in new seals and at the least a new cotter pin in the diff shaft or weld the diff shaft, shange the shifter rod seal and the one at the trany's bell housing, in my case I do have to pull both housings of the trany but dont have to pull the gears, diff or even the shift rods (5th gear.. excluded) I just have to tap out the coter pin holding the shift fofk end on the 5th/reverse rod and spin the rod 180 derees then tap the cotter back in, put the housing back on...

If you pull the gears do it on a flat suface, besides the main shaft seal (shaft the cluch disc sits on) need to be changed from inside the belhousing.

I am hopeing that the gear and diff and shift rods hold eachother in place enough to get the cover back on, puting the gears or diff in with trany sideways would be almost impossibles and something I wouldnt try.

Last summer my trany with the PG decided to send the diff pin for a vacation somwhere on the side of the road, I took another trany appart, cleaned up the PG installed it in the other trany along with the new shift rod ends that where put in with the PG. It was the week end and I didnt change the shifter rod seal, didnt leak when it was on another car?
BUT IT DID THEN, the following monday I pulled out the trany diss-assembled it installed "AN 8$ SEAL", reassembled it and re-installed it.
You'd think I'd have learned then even though just before that Ribbie came to rebuild his trany, mazda gave him the N/A shifter shaft seal not the GT, I made him wait and do it right even though he was in a hurry to get the car back on the road, but when I do my own I ignore the rules (dohh).

P.S. there is a trick for fixing a leaking CHANGE ROD SEAL, It works most of the time, just not on my car last summer.
what you need is a rubber O-ring and a small tie wrap/zip tie,
-drain the trany fluid,
-undo the shifter arm,
-pull out the shifter bushings,
-back the rubber accordian sleeve tward the transmission (3rd gear give the most shaft to work with)
-Wrap the zip tie around the O-ring,
-pull the O-ring over each end of the shifter shaft one at a time, pass the tie wrap under the accordian dust boot, and pull the O-ring through (maket sure its over the lip the dusboot sits in first).
-Now your Oring and sip tie are between the dust boot and seal.
-Push the dust boot to the end of the shaft, slide the oring next to it,
-Pull the shifter shaft seal out carefully (the metal lip is there for the dust boot to sit on, so a slight bend wont hurt, but crushing the tube will ruin the seal) I use a wrench, Opened end that fits in the grove for the dust boot and wiggle the seal out .
-Slide the seal down the shaft and pull you Oring to the other side of it,
-Now cut of the zip tie (try not to cut or touch the Oring when doing so.),
-finally stuff the O-ring inside the seal over the sring/just behind it. (the seal is the same as the cam/crank seals just with a different housing, its a rubber sleeve that the shaft sits in with a sring that holds the rubber around the shaft, by ading the Oring sou are making the seal tighter and stoping it from leaking.
-Push the seal back in, tap it snugg and put the rubber dust boot back in place, reconect shifter,
-Add fluid and cross your fingers.

[Five8]

::in for all the knowledge you want to drop on us::

[Mazda Carnage]

Done, success and easy.
Well it turns out the shift rod was in the right way all along, Drained the fluid, pulled the bolt, sring and baring for that rod out and looked in the hole, could clearly see the notches, pulled it appart to see what was up:



To get the trany appart on the car, I removed:
The air box/ air flow meter, the charge pipe, the upper trany mount.
The wheel, link kit, k-frame/contol arm/lower rear trany mount.
And the CV-joint.

Alot less to it then taking the trany out.



Here is the trany appart on the car (sorry it came out dark)

Here was the problem:



The one on the left was in the car, the one on the right is it's replacement.
If you look close you can see the groove that wore into the 5th gear fork.



Because of the groove, it wouldn't pull the gear completely in, why the car wouldn't stay in 5th, possibly making reverse hard to get in.
The reverse light sensor was no good either.

Nothing else was off so back together it went.



Anarchyx34, By shift lockout pins you mean the little block held by 2 12mm blots with two cylender shaped "barrings" that sit behind it?
There is a trick to this, I just use some Castrol mutlipurpose Synthetic grease on each "barring" then stick them between the rods, the grease holds them in place while you put the block over them. Locktite the bolts.

I found it suprisingly easy to do, saved a trany removal and install, and although no one care about fixing a trany while on the car, It will prove very ussefull when it comes to:
-Changing the shift rod seal "without removing the trany "
-Apliying Locktite to the three bolts that hold the shift box down "without removing the trany"
- Possibly even the shift rod ends could be changed if done carefully.

P.S. <Correction> : the reverse light runs off the shift rod end and not the knotches in the shift rod as I originally though (or imagined).

[SixSick6]

Your words seem twisted. Are you saying that you can change the seal on the change rod without removing the transmission? If so, that seal seems like it goes on from the inside no?

[Mazda Carnage]

Originally Posted by SixSick6

Your words seem twisted. Are you saying that you can change the seal on the change rod without removing the transmission? If so, that seal seems like it goes on from the inside no?

I will try to untwist:

No, from the outside, the rod comes appart from the inside.

I called the change rod seal- shifter shaft seal, I will correct that.

Yes you can change the change rod seal without removing the transmission, If you open it to the point I had mine, remove the shift box, you can tap the dowel on the change rod, undo the change rod at the shifter arm and slide it out of the trany without disturbing the gears, shift rods of diff.
The seal goes on from the outside the metal lip is part of it.

I am verry happy with the fact this can be done on the car, my eastimate was 600$ if I pulled and installed the trany mysefl, it would have bein 900$ for them to do the full job.
I get to tell my customers I will do it on the car, in less time, for less then a 3rd of the price

The first GT trany I put in my Blue 4door in 2001, I looked into getting it changed, 600$ was quoted, the same mecanic told me he could cut the end of the shaft change the seal and weld the end back on the shaft for 90$,
I keept asking if it would shift well? he said yes, so I let him do it.
Again 40$ worth of lucas trany fluid leaked out the trany seal. Enough! I rebuild two busted trany's into one for practice (still runing in Robs car now)
Then for the 600$ it would of cost to have some Dilbert scratch his ass and put an 8$ seal in, I bought new shift rod ends and a Pantom Grip and changed all the seals with a bit of change left over.
Turned out the mecanic who changed the seal didnt put it in right, the spring was half in the seal and half on the change rod, wich meant I could have pulled the seal out and fixed it without taking anything appart, But this way I got to change the welded change rod for one from the left over parts from the practice trany (It always worried me).


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The other Transmission seal goes in from the bell housing under the coller held on by 3 bolts that sits behind the release barring, it can be cange any time the trany is off the car without opening it up (like when you change the clutch, good to do that seal and the rear main while the trany's off).
You remove the three bolts, pull of the sleeve or collar, there is the seal, pry it out, if it's jammed I drill a small hole in the seal and put a wood screw in the seal, pull the screw with a pair of pliers. Oil up the new seal, put it in place, put the old seal over it, put the sleeve against the olt seal backwars and tap it with a rubber mallot till the new seal is in place.
( POOR MAN SST: I always use the old seals as padding to install the new ones, the same goes for valve stem seals, put the old one over the new one to tap it on without damaging the seal or spring, the perfect fit.)

There is one final gasket that goes in the trany, a little kidney shaped gasket with a hole in the middle that goes where the little vent knob is, a plate goes over the gasket and is held down by bolts (from inside).

[vrouv06]

Originally Posted by Five8

please snap some pics, im probably headed in the same direction pretty soon... and how available is that LSD? price?

10 bucks a tab. I have a Bible full.
















Jk. Couldn't help myself

[SixSick6]

Originally Posted by Mazda Carnage

No, from the outside, the rod comes appart from the inside.

I knew that, thats why I was like "WTF?"

Originally Posted by Mazda Carnage

Yes you can change the change rod seal without removing the transmission, If you open it to the point I had mine, remove the shift box, you can tap the dowel on the change rod, undo the change rod at the shifter arm and slide it out of the trany without disturbing the gears, shift rods of diff.

I knew that, thats why I was like "WTF?"

Originally Posted by Mazda Carnage

The seal goes on from the outside the metal lip is part of it.

That's where you had me confused. It sounded like you were saying that the seal could be changed without undoing the change rod from the inside. The only way I could see doing this from the outside without openign would be to cut the rod, put the seal in, then weld the rod. Thats why I was like "WTF?". Then I read that you had the same idea as me except you actually went through with it, or maybe you just read my thread?

Either way, it is the ONLY TIME I have ever seen SleepCounter wrong:
http://www.mx6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133806 (H Type (Turbo) Transmission, has anyone ever replaced the change rod oil seal???)

Ahh, you were there then too.

[Mazda Carnage]

Originally Posted by SixSick6

That's where you had me confused. It sounded like you were saying that the seal could be changed without undoing the change rod from the inside. The only way I could see doing this from the outside without openign would be to cut the rod, put the seal in, then weld the rod.

No cant change the seal, but pull it out and install an "O"-ring or second spring and stop the seal from leaking without removing anything, works most of the time (walk through steps above).

The mechanic suggested the welding Idea, if I knew his work before hand I would have turned him down, DONT GO THIS ROUTE UNLESS YOU KNOW A REALLY GOOD WELDER. I still have the rod in my mountain of bad trany parts.


A few side notes:
If anyone ever buy's a Guru diff, I have some diff the housings are ruined on, but the diff gears and speedo gears are still good, let me know, I will give you one (shipping at your cost) this way you can have the guru put together before removing your trany, or dissassembing a working diff.

In another thread somewhere I read " I wish I could put smaller gears in my automatic trany" -That would make as much sense as a soup sandwich, it would be cheaper and easier to: increase the HPR or put in a 5speed.
This did get me thinking, I aways wanted a larger 1st, 2nd, 3rd, gear, stock fourth and fith. Looked into it years ago, came up empty handed.
What I'm wondering is there any chance that 1st and 2nd from an auto could be put and run in a 5speed?
This could help with the inevidable launch: 1st-Spin-redline-shift 2nd-Spin-redline-shift usualy locks up in 3rd.