Comments on: Dual Oil Catch Cans

**gavin** · 10-11-04, 22:01

Or the alternate title "Oh Christ! Gavin is messing with engines now. Run for the hills."

The Project/FAQ is posted here: http://www.mx6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110096 (Dual Oil Catch Cans)

**Mazda_MX6_Turbo** · 10-11-04, 22:39

i give u props gavin, even tho u already showed me this stuff before hehe, but was wondering, how much did all that stuff couse ya??

**DarkDragon** · 10-11-04, 23:32

u get karma for this, great job gavin i will be installing catch cans also since i am pulling oil in as well

**mx6GT91** · 10-11-04, 23:37

I have heard of people getting the CEL when the PCV is messed with.

So far so good???? Maybe I'll keep my catch can

Quote:

(PS: if this is happening to you, check the PCV valve for failure).

My car does this. I have gone through 2 valve cover gaskets in 1 month. When I remove my PCV valve and shake it I can hear the rattleing. Doesnt that mean its working??? I also have a breather filter, which Im told that bad also.

Tell me if this would work. What if I bought a lot of (fuel) lines as you did. Use a T and tap both the PCV/IM and the valve cover/intake together.
Thats what I was going to do but I thought that some negitives might happen??

**Mazda_MX6_Turbo** · 10-11-04, 23:53

u blowing valve cover gaskets could be due ot a cloged breather filter.

**mx6GT91** · 10-12-04, 0:09

I keep it clean???? Maybe Im not cleaning it good enough.

I thought it was due to high psi??? My valve cover was lasting just fine untill I hit 19psi at the track in 4th gear (yes I let off). Then I notice its leaking again pretty bad.

**Dyoel182** · 10-12-04, 0:43

I was actually looking at the compressed air filters at work the other day and thinking about this. Though I'm not sure 2 filters are really needed, it sure would keep things a lot cleaner inside the engine. Let us know how fast those things fill up with gross oil.

**Mazda_MX6_Turbo** · 10-12-04, 0:59

it also depends on the proper torqueing of the valve cover, and the quality of gasket. i had a problem with the autozone/pepboys gaskets (2 of them), i put an original one from mazda and its perfect.

**gavin** · 10-12-04, 1:19

Price was @ 60$ for both filters, 6ft of 3/8" hose and 5 threaded barbs. There are even smaller air line filters but for the stores that were local to me they were priced the same(24$) so I opted for the larger Craftsman versions. Wasnt chrome though...damn.

mx6GT91...Ive read that relying on atmospheric pressure to vent the valve cover isnt sometimes adequite on a car that has been set up for a PCV system. Perhaps while under boost (big turbo right?)there is too much pressure in the valve cover to be vented passively and its blowing your seals? Just a thought.

Dyoel182....no guesses for me. Like I said, both filters are collecting oil so they are doing their job. I would have prefered that they never caught a drop of oil but that wold be wishful thinking on my part.

Gavin

**fredio54** · 10-12-04, 1:38

There is more to it than the above, there is low compression/blowby and there is an air filter. If the air filter is blocked, then there will be more than usual vacuum thus drawing air/blowby from the engine into the intake tract and blowing it through your intercooler. there will be some vacuum even with a clean air filter, but much less. also even with a vacuum not much will be drawn from the engine because it will hold a good vacuum and therefore have little to give. if however you have non perfect rings then there will be plenty of flow through the engine, ie past your rings and through your turbo.

I make a poor teacher. can someone clarify?

the only thing that should differ in a blown engine is the pcv valve situation, and the rings would show up even worse.

rattling the pcv doesnt ensure that it seals well. you should do a "leak down test" on it, or apply a good vacuum and listen for sucking sounds.

you can block off the pipe to the intake before the turbo, and replace it with a filter, then under idle it draws through that not past the airflow meter. the computer may or may not like this though.

On my girlys levin, at idle it will try to pull your finger off if you put it over the hose to the intake between the throttle and air filter. That engine did a comp check at exactly 220psi on all four. On skylines etc rb2xde with hotwire, they will nearly die if you open the oil filler whilst running, obviously messes with idle air fuel ratio.

CAM22T send me your address over there, I have a little something for you :-)

Fred.

**pin** · 10-12-04, 17:52

The filter I've looked at buying for this purpose is less than $12 at Home Depot. I believe it was the Huskey brand. Right now I just have one of those FRAM inline fuel filters, which is probably clogged now.

**gavin** · 10-13-04, 15:09

I have seen the smaller items in other installs. Heres one from an Acura TSX site, http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9571

Whats cool about those is they are small enough to be easily placed anywhere. This is especially nice in a crowded engine bay. This was one of the things that lead me away from the hugantic Greddy/Cusco/etc catch cans(also they were just expensive. >80$ vs 12-25$ for varing sizes of air line filters that do the same thing). Also, I like the idea of modifying things for different purposes, so this appealed to that sensability.

The nearest Home Depot is a ways from me and Sears and Orchard Supply were local. The smaller units they had were the same price as the larger units(4" vs 6") so I just went for the larger ones. Sheer lazyness on my part I suppose.

Gavin

**fun2look@** · 10-17-04, 22:22

Hey gavin, I'll tell you up front I have no clue about turbos, haha (I considered PMing you, but hey maybe making an ass of myself will add some character or what have you

)

I just popped-in because I had recently gone over this subject with my own vehicle b/c I'm a fuel efficiency nut and one of these "gas-saving inventions" had a military patent on it and gave me the option of getting my money back so I tried it.

Basically it branches-off your PCV valve inlet over to the "device" ( a piece of plastic with a piece of earbud foam in it-lol) I really don't know all the details- only that there is a ball between the piece of foam filter and under harder throttle this inlet will open in proportion to your "demand".

This device supposedly allows a cleaner burn or in their words "atomization" of the left over vapors. They suggest copper tubing to lengthen the distance the gases travel in combination with contact from a hot region on the engine (IM,Cylinder head etc) The idea I guess is to use the engine's own heat to burn it's sloppy seconds (don't ask. haha)

I know I don't need to be part of this project though b/c I have no turbo- thus no dual-catch cans required

Would I say this device works? Well I am a very skeptical person, but under load I do feel a difference (not huge one, but a bit freer feeling)...so yah- maybe I'm a sucker, but I kept the thingy- I just thought I'd toss this your way... maybe there is an option of burning off what your vapors scavenge from the exhaust? Just a thought.
I've seen a more permanent device like the one I have only it's around $250 and involves a collection jar, basically tries to burn away these vapors as well

. (I decided to start-out small

) Something good fiction TV and sales pitches have in common... believeable science fiction requires some portion of science-fact

) ingenious engineering by the way- thanks for making MX-6.com a better place

-later

**Dyoel182** · 10-17-04, 22:33

The PCV system itself is designed to clean up the engines "sloppy seconds" as you say. It should route the oily gas into the engine to be burned and therefore disposed of but all cars have pcv problems as they age and the system starts to contaminate the intact track. The gadget you're describing probably wont do anything helpful but may catch a little of the oil vapor, you should probably get your money back on it while you can. As for not needing two catch cans, the system for both cars is identical regardless if you have a turbo or not.

**fun2look@** · 10-17-04, 22:48

Why would we be talking about the same kinds of pressure? (turbo vs N/A) stock engines aren't going to have anything to do with boost and any higher psi than the engine typically requires... how does this put me in the same boat as everyone (turboed 6's)?

Btw, if I don't have an intercooler, where does this oil vapor build-up?

10-11-04, 22:01	#1 (permalink)
gavin Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: santa cruz.ca iTrader: (1)	Comments on: Dual Oil Catch Cans Or the alternate title "Oh Christ! Gavin is messing with engines now. Run for the hills." The Project/FAQ is posted here: http://www.mx6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110096 (Dual Oil Catch Cans) Last edited by Panther37 : 10-13-04 at 3:50. Reason: Sorting/Splitting Thread

10-11-04, 22:39	#2 (permalink)
Mazda_MX6_Turbo Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: LA, california, CA, USA Age: 24 iTrader: (7)	i give u props gavin, even tho u already showed me this stuff before hehe, but was wondering, how much did all that stuff couse ya??
	BLUE 2004 MAZDA 6s Wagon RED 89 MAZDA MX6 GT turbo SOLD

10-11-04, 23:32	#3 (permalink)
DarkDragon Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Raleigh,, NC, USA Age: 21 iTrader: (0)	u get karma for this, great job gavin i will be installing catch cans also since i am pulling oil in as well
	rebuilt f2 starting fresh

10-11-04, 23:53	#5 (permalink)
Mazda_MX6_Turbo Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: LA, california, CA, USA Age: 24 iTrader: (7)	u blowing valve cover gaskets could be due ot a cloged breather filter.
	BLUE 2004 MAZDA 6s Wagon RED 89 MAZDA MX6 GT turbo SOLD

10-12-04, 0:09	#6 (permalink)
mx6GT91 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 22 iTrader: (0)	I keep it clean???? Maybe Im not cleaning it good enough. I thought it was due to high psi??? My valve cover was lasting just fine untill I hit 19psi at the track in 4th gear (yes I let off). Then I notice its leaking again pretty bad.
	Anyone want a NICE 1G? :-/

10-12-04, 0:43	#7 (permalink)
Dyoel182 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Granbury, TX iTrader: (0)	I was actually looking at the compressed air filters at work the other day and thinking about this. Though I'm not sure 2 filters are really needed, it sure would keep things a lot cleaner inside the engine. Let us know how fast those things fill up with gross oil.
	I'ts a piece of cake to bake a pretty cake, if the way is hazy You gotta do the cooking by the book, you know you can't be lazy

10-12-04, 0:59	#8 (permalink)
Mazda_MX6_Turbo Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: LA, california, CA, USA Age: 24 iTrader: (7)	it also depends on the proper torqueing of the valve cover, and the quality of gasket. i had a problem with the autozone/pepboys gaskets (2 of them), i put an original one from mazda and its perfect.
	BLUE 2004 MAZDA 6s Wagon RED 89 MAZDA MX6 GT turbo SOLD

10-12-04, 1:19	#9 (permalink)
gavin Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: santa cruz.ca iTrader: (1)	Price was @ 60$ for both filters, 6ft of 3/8" hose and 5 threaded barbs. There are even smaller air line filters but for the stores that were local to me they were priced the same(24$) so I opted for the larger Craftsman versions. Wasnt chrome though...damn. mx6GT91...Ive read that relying on atmospheric pressure to vent the valve cover isnt sometimes adequite on a car that has been set up for a PCV system. Perhaps while under boost (big turbo right?)there is too much pressure in the valve cover to be vented passively and its blowing your seals? Just a thought. Dyoel182....no guesses for me. Like I said, both filters are collecting oil so they are doing their job. I would have prefered that they never caught a drop of oil but that wold be wishful thinking on my part. Gavin

10-12-04, 1:38	#10 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	There is more to it than the above, there is low compression/blowby and there is an air filter. If the air filter is blocked, then there will be more than usual vacuum thus drawing air/blowby from the engine into the intake tract and blowing it through your intercooler. there will be some vacuum even with a clean air filter, but much less. also even with a vacuum not much will be drawn from the engine because it will hold a good vacuum and therefore have little to give. if however you have non perfect rings then there will be plenty of flow through the engine, ie past your rings and through your turbo. I make a poor teacher. can someone clarify? the only thing that should differ in a blown engine is the pcv valve situation, and the rings would show up even worse. rattling the pcv doesnt ensure that it seals well. you should do a "leak down test" on it, or apply a good vacuum and listen for sucking sounds. you can block off the pipe to the intake before the turbo, and replace it with a filter, then under idle it draws through that not past the airflow meter. the computer may or may not like this though. On my girlys levin, at idle it will try to pull your finger off if you put it over the hose to the intake between the throttle and air filter. That engine did a comp check at exactly 220psi on all four. On skylines etc rb2xde with hotwire, they will nearly die if you open the oil filler whilst running, obviously messes with idle air fuel ratio. CAM22T send me your address over there, I have a little something for you :-) Fred. Last edited by fredio54 : 10-12-04 at 1:51.

10-12-04, 17:52	#11 (permalink)
pin Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Fargo, ND Age: 27 iTrader: (0)	The filter I've looked at buying for this purpose is less than $12 at Home Depot. I believe it was the Huskey brand. Right now I just have one of those FRAM inline fuel filters, which is probably clogged now.
	Barry - 92 Probe LX Vulcan 3.0 V6

10-13-04, 15:09	#12 (permalink)
gavin Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: santa cruz.ca iTrader: (1)	I have seen the smaller items in other installs. Heres one from an Acura TSX site, http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9571 Whats cool about those is they are small enough to be easily placed anywhere. This is especially nice in a crowded engine bay. This was one of the things that lead me away from the hugantic Greddy/Cusco/etc catch cans(also they were just expensive. >80$ vs 12-25$ for varing sizes of air line filters that do the same thing). Also, I like the idea of modifying things for different purposes, so this appealed to that sensability. The nearest Home Depot is a ways from me and Sears and Orchard Supply were local. The smaller units they had were the same price as the larger units(4" vs 6") so I just went for the larger ones. Sheer lazyness on my part I suppose. Gavin

10-17-04, 22:22	#13 (permalink)
fun2look@ Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Charleston, SC, USA iTrader: (0)	Hey gavin, I'll tell you up front I have no clue about turbos, haha (I considered PMing you, but hey maybe making an ass of myself will add some character or what have you ) I just popped-in because I had recently gone over this subject with my own vehicle b/c I'm a fuel efficiency nut and one of these "gas-saving inventions" had a military patent on it and gave me the option of getting my money back so I tried it. Basically it branches-off your PCV valve inlet over to the "device" ( a piece of plastic with a piece of earbud foam in it-lol) I really don't know all the details- only that there is a ball between the piece of foam filter and under harder throttle this inlet will open in proportion to your "demand". This device supposedly allows a cleaner burn or in their words "atomization" of the left over vapors. They suggest copper tubing to lengthen the distance the gases travel in combination with contact from a hot region on the engine (IM,Cylinder head etc) The idea I guess is to use the engine's own heat to burn it's sloppy seconds (don't ask. haha) I know I don't need to be part of this project though b/c I have no turbo- thus no dual-catch cans required Would I say this device works? Well I am a very skeptical person, but under load I do feel a difference (not huge one, but a bit freer feeling)...so yah- maybe I'm a sucker, but I kept the thingy- I just thought I'd toss this your way... maybe there is an option of burning off what your vapors scavenge from the exhaust? Just a thought. I've seen a more permanent device like the one I have only it's around $250 and involves a collection jar, basically tries to burn away these vapors as well . (I decided to start-out small ) Something good fiction TV and sales pitches have in common... believeable science fiction requires some portion of science-fact ) ingenious engineering by the way- thanks for making MX-6.com a better place -later

10-17-04, 22:33	#14 (permalink)
Dyoel182 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Granbury, TX iTrader: (0)	The PCV system itself is designed to clean up the engines "sloppy seconds" as you say. It should route the oily gas into the engine to be burned and therefore disposed of but all cars have pcv problems as they age and the system starts to contaminate the intact track. The gadget you're describing probably wont do anything helpful but may catch a little of the oil vapor, you should probably get your money back on it while you can. As for not needing two catch cans, the system for both cars is identical regardless if you have a turbo or not.
	I'ts a piece of cake to bake a pretty cake, if the way is hazy You gotta do the cooking by the book, you know you can't be lazy

10-17-04, 22:48	#15 (permalink)
fun2look@ Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Charleston, SC, USA iTrader: (0)	Why would we be talking about the same kinds of pressure? (turbo vs N/A) stock engines aren't going to have anything to do with boost and any higher psi than the engine typically requires... how does this put me in the same boat as everyone (turboed 6's)? Btw, if I don't have an intercooler, where does this oil vapor build-up? Last edited by fun2look@ : 10-17-04 at 23:27.