Comments On: Koni insert installation

[GT4WS]

[ Comments (Koni insert installation) ]
Karma for you, thanks for the great write-up.

[SleepCounter]

Originally Posted by gavin

How am I doing?

Superlative, as always.

Originally Posted by gavin

Comments?

I would love to know the dimensions of the inserts (length/diameter of shell, stroke length, length above shoulder, diameter above shoulder) just so I could harrass Mssrs. Bilstein, Tokico, KYB et all about other applications which may fit or almost fit.

Especially Herr Bilstein -- I've had good luck with his wares.

Particularly interested in travel of the 1G Specials (it would appear that some travel is sacrificed and the shell shortened to allow the threaded boss to be added to the bottom) as compared with stock travel. I'm a big fan of suspension travel.

Originally Posted by gavin

Critiques?

Since you ask -- hehe.

Unsprung weight -- your machinist couldn't fab up a couple of aluminum spacers rather than those Home Depot nipples? Unsprung weight matters.

Evidently matters a lot to you too, based on your investment of time and money in your suspension setup.

Sprung weight. I thought the white car was competition only these days. You certain you need those speakers on the rear deck or is that a race trick to change weight bias while observing the spirit (yeah, right) of the rules?

Great write-up and immaculate workmanship, as always, Gav.

[KiNg MaRtY]

Nice!!!

So what if you weren't to use the "spacers"? more of a drop but a chance of bottoming out?

[HotRodMex]

Originally Posted by SleepCounter

Sprung weight. I thought the white car was competition only these days. You certain you need those speakers on the rear deck or is that a race trick to change weight bias while observing the spirit (yeah, right) of the rules?

Not quite so sharp in your old age, eh Kirk? Do you also think that Gavin just removed his AAS motors as well?

Gavin: Words fail. I think you need to publish a small book and sell it.

[gavin]

Sleepcounter....

I would love to know the dimensions of the inserts (length/diameter of shell, stroke length, length above shoulder, diameter above shoulder) just so I could harrass Mssrs. Bilstein, Tokico, KYB et all about other applications which may fit or almost fit.

Ill get that info for you. The inserts are installed on the car but its not that hard to remove them(especially since the car is still up in the air).

I recall though that KYB has an AGX insert for the 2nd gen Toyota MR2 that dimensionally should be able to fit. Its been a while since I spoke to KYB about this. The toyota struts are made fro inserts and have a removable cap at the sop of the strut(the konis by comparisn, bolt from the bottom of the strut). I couldnt figure a way to get the AGX inserts to work in this manner and was still unsure about the dimensions.

Especially Herr Bilstein -- I've had good luck with his wares.

Bilstein makes a real quality product. Top notch stuff. One of Bilstiens tricks is they love parts interchangability. The guts from their race shocks most of the time fit in their passenger offerings. This means, parts are plentiful and cheap. The one thing that has been slow has been external adjustement however.

Dennis Grant (farnorthracing.com(?))from Ontario works at ATI (accurate technologies inc) where they do a lot of modification to bilstiens shocks.

AWR racing also likes bilstiens and has a shortened version(in a coilover kit) available for the 2nd gen

Particularly interested in travel of the 1G Specials

The threaded boss athe the base of the inset is about 1" in length. I dont recall this affecting the shock stroke on the 1st gen Sports(and I would assume the same for the 1st gen Specials). There was plenty of travel to be had.

Unsprung weight

I might look around to see if I can find some aluminum tubing one day. The pipe couplers was a stroke of good luck though. Yes, they are heavy(er) than aluminum, and every ounce counts, but in the grand scheme of things I let the weight slide.

The thing is the strut body and insert are both steel. Thats twice as much steel in one package. Heck..the insert is a twin tube setup...3 layers of steel! While in my dreams Id like to have an aluminum bodied, fully threaded(for coilovers), monotube setup, that costs...A lot. Im willing to deal with the konis and their added weight to unsprung mass because they work. Given the choice between light and mediocre, or heavier and stellar performance, I choose the konis. Ill live with the spacers....for now.

Sprung weight

Hmm.. you claim that you are old, but those are some good eyes. Some of these are older photos of the car when I first installed the illumina/GC setup on the car. The speakers have since been removed (Sunroof Delete and other weight savings).

Gavin

[gavin]

Originally Posted by KiNg MaRtY

So what if you weren't to use the "spacers"? more of a drop but a chance of bottoming out?

Its the springs that support the cars weight. To get the car to a lower height you can either shorten the spring(standard lowering springs) or lower the spring perch(coilovers).

If either of those two methods are used the extended length of the euro 2nd gen inserts wont be too much of an issue(although I would still add spacers because Id like to have some downtravel to keep the wheels on the ground). The biggest issue will be having the springs stiff enough to prevent bottoming out on the much shorter insert.

With stock springs this is even more of a possibility. Since I dont have the higher spring rate of lowering springs or coilovers, I am hoping the higher than stock bump damping will slow the compression of the strut on large bumps in the road.

Gavin

[gavin]

HotRodMex...No book for me. Better that its here so someone can reference it in the future.

Besides Id be terrible at a book signing.

Gavin

[franckdu61]

thank you very much Gavin!
i wanted to do this "How to" but i didn't install my Koni red yet. and you did it so much i would have.

[Ryan]

Wow, great writeup. I'll no doubt be referencing it soon

Laters
Ryan

[eraezer]

Great write up (I know it's old but it's my first post in this comment thread).
I managed to get my hands on 4 pipe couplers. But I could only find those in 60mm lenght so I have to cut them.
One thing that I noticed when I tried them on the inserts is that the weld that holds the "snout" makes the coupler sit crooked (is this the right word?), did anyone else notice this? Gavin, does your couplers sit tight on the "snout"?

An other thing, is the material thickness of the couplers really enough? The "snouts" have about twice as much thickness.

[gavin]

Cutting the pipe couplers to length is fine.

The strut tube will hold the inset in the correct orientation so where the coupler actually touches(even if its askew on a weld) wont ultimately matter. If its worth the time to you you can reprofile the coupler to fit around the weld.

This is a steel pipe coupler that you are using? If it is, the thickness will be fine to be used as a spacer. Remember, the weight of the car isnt supported by the insert(or spacer) just the spring and the strut body.

Gavin

[eraezer]

Thank you very much for your quick reply.
And yes, it's steel pipe couplers.

[eraezer]

I have just started to put together my struts, but I'm having a little problem with the fronts, they seam very tight. The rears were fine.
Has anyone else had problems with their fronts? (second generation koni)


EDIT:
I just went out and gauged the diameter of the struthousings. The ones that I know are non-AAS are 45mm on the inside, but those that are said to be AAS are also 45mm on the inside, can anyone clearify this for me? :S

[gavin]

Sounds about right. The fit is very close if not tight, but it is do-able. So far Ive only been able to reliably get the AAS struts to work with the 2nd gen konis.

How far down does the insert get? If it gets about 2/3-3/4ths of the way down it bay be getting hung up on the welds made for the brake line bracket. You will have to file that down to get the insert all the way in.

Another thing is the base of the inserts themselves. I have had one set of konis where the welds for the base was very, er...robust. It actually protruded beyond the overall width of the insert tube. I had to shave that down as well to have the insert get into the donor tube.

Finally....I havent had this happen to me or anyone else who has done this (but it is a possibility) but with the AAS struts we are dealing with some loose tollerances of the outer tubes since all the action happens in the inner tube(twin tube struts). It could be that that set of AAS struts was made just a bit too narrow on the outside and, well ...there you are.

Good luck. Check the other stuff first.

Gavin

[eraezer]

Thank you for your quick answer
I have now been grinding for about one hour on one strut.
I got curious so I took out one Tokico (spell?) non-AAS strut and to my surprise I only had to grind on 2 spots to make the konis fit, it was all the way around where the spring holder is welded on and where the brake line holder is welded.

So now I'm a bit unsur on how I should progress from here.
My AAS struts have been grinded, sandblasted and rust have been welded, they have also been primerd (paintgun) and the got 3 layers of top-coat by brush.

My non-AAS have been cut open and grinded on the inside so the konis fit. They do not have more than a few spots of surface rust so the will need grinding, minor sandblasting, primer (paintgun) and topcoat (brush).

Any recommendations?