mazda6 front brakes w/some pics - Mazda MX-6 Forum
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-1-16, 19:37 Thread Starter
 
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mazda6 front brakes w/some pics

Hi I ran into an issue installing 2003-05 mazda 6 front discs and calipers on my 1st gen mx6 hubs. The rotor hat places the discs 1mm more towards the hub therefore the Mazda6 caliper brackets don't clear. Nothing I couldn't get around but i'd like others to know that it is not a direct bolt on. Pics of some differences here. I will take more tomorrow. These are 11.125" rotors 03-05 Mazda6



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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-3-16, 10:58
 
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Same thing happend me, I went to the junkyard on 1/2 price day bought everything got home Cleaned everything off then painted caliper & rotors then found out they didnt fit. I was bitchin. If you come up with a solution let me know
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-3-16, 18:37
 
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Not sure if I am understanding correctly, are you saying the disk sits 1mm further in (Towards engine) then the factory disk?

If so 5 Large 1MM thick washers over the studs between the hub and disk (might have to grind one edge of the washer to get the disk over) should put them right where they need to be.

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-4-16, 11:04 Thread Starter
 
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Yes 5 1/2 inch I.d washers does the trick but it sketchy. Anyway. I just wanted to clear some of the misinformation going around.

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-16-16, 23:40

 
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RE: mazda6 front brakes w\some pics

Did you get those brakes to work on your 1st gen mx6. I just did the rear disc conversion on mine and am thinking about doing a big brake conversion on it. Would love to see some pictures of your mx6 if you have finished it.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-17-16, 18:27 Thread Starter
 
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Its not entirely an mx6 but it's an mx6 power train so exact same.


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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-28-16, 19:46

 
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Sorry for a late response. Did everything work good on it? What actually needs to be changed to change them?
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-29-16, 21:24
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcervan7 View Post
Sorry for a late response. Did everything work good on it? What actually needs to be changed to change them?
Your question seems confusing.

I will guess what's needed to do the conversion. The Mazda 6 disk is 11.125" disk and the MX6 has 10.4" disks, so you definitely need the brake pad bracket to clear the disk, if you have to use the pad bracket then you have to use Mazda 6 Pads and obviously the MX6 caliper doesn't fit on the Mazda 6 Bracket or we would all be running Mazda 6 calipers on mx6 carriers and factory disks hoping it's an upgrade, so Mazda 6 calipers.

TR stated that the caliper bracket sits 1mm off form the disk on F2T hubs/spindles.
You can do two things to solve this, A) Move the disk out 1mm B)Move the bracket in 1mm
There are 3 ways of doing it: 1) Space out the disk 1mm from the hub (spacers/washers) 2) Shave 1mm off the part of the bracket (threaded eyelets) that sit against the hubs eyelets 3) Shave the hub eyelets down 1mm.

1 Is good but makes the front wheel footprint 2mm wider than the rear and might require spacing the rear rim 1mm from the disk.
2 is good but you cant use the brackets on a Mazda 6 again (without 1mm washers between the bracket and hub).
3 is OK but without using 1mm spacers on the factory hubs you can only run Mazda 6 brakes.

I would go with solution #2 myself, brackets don't have much value (neither do junkyard calipers).
There is nothing wrong with #1 using washers, just widening the front without the back on the MX6 could effect the handling, TR feels it to be sketchy and it may initially seem so but think of your cheap aluminum/non hubcentric universal wheel spacers, 10 or 12 large oval holes for the studs and a giant center hole to clear any size hub bore, the spacers are thick, leave a big unsupported space around the studs, have far less mating surface then the washes and are made of weaker material then a washer, yet the cheap spacers work with tons of torque and the studs hold, the only issue with them is centering them and the wheel over them or they wobble. The washers would have none of these issues.
#3 would be for those that like the Mazda 6 caliper bracket more then their car.

In TR-MX6's case the front track is possibly already wider than the rear. And it might need to be as he has added quite a bit of engine weight (and a lot more power) to a short wheel based car with a light rear end, in his case the rear end is an after though or the F2T wonders if there is one.
Imagine a front wheel drive Polaris Slingshot with 3 times the power.

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-30-16, 11:10 Thread Starter
 
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Exactly what mazda carnage said. Everything from junkyard. Mazda 6 front calipers,pads,rotors.

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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 11-30-16, 12:57

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda Carnage View Post
Your question seems confusing.



I will guess what's needed to do the conversion. The Mazda 6 disk is 11.125" disk and the MX6 has 10.4" disks, so you definitely need the brake pad bracket to clear the disk, if you have to use the pad bracket then you have to use Mazda 6 Pads and obviously the MX6 caliper doesn't fit on the Mazda 6 Bracket or we would all be running Mazda 6 calipers on mx6 carriers and factory disks hoping it's an upgrade, so Mazda 6 calipers.



TR stated that the caliper bracket sits 1mm off form the disk on F2T hubs/spindles.

You can do two things to solve this, A) Move the disk out 1mm B)Move the bracket in 1mm

There are 3 ways of doing it: 1) Space out the disk 1mm from the hub (spacers/washers) 2) Shave 1mm off the part of the bracket (threaded eyelets) that sit against the hubs eyelets 3) Shave the hub eyelets down 1mm.



1 Is good but makes the front wheel footprint 2mm wider than the rear and might require spacing the rear rim 1mm from the disk.

2 is good but you cant use the brackets on a Mazda 6 again (without 1mm washers between the bracket and hub).

3 is OK but without using 1mm spacers on the factory hubs you can only run Mazda 6 brakes.



I would go with solution #2 myself, brackets don't have much value (neither do junkyard calipers).

There is nothing wrong with #1 using washers, just widening the front without the back on the MX6 could effect the handling, TR feels it to be sketchy and it may initially seem so but think of your cheap aluminum/non hubcentric universal wheel spacers, 10 or 12 large oval holes for the studs and a giant center hole to clear any size hub bore, the spacers are thick, leave a big unsupported space around the studs, have far less mating surface then the washes and are made of weaker material then a washer, yet the cheap spacers work with tons of torque and the studs hold, the only issue with them is centering them and the wheel over them or they wobble. The washers would have none of these issues.

#3 would be for those that like the Mazda 6 caliper bracket more then their car.



In TR-MX6's case the front track is possibly already wider than the rear. And it might need to be as he has added quite a bit of engine weight (and a lot more power) to a short wheel based car with a light rear end, in his case the rear end is an after though or the F2T wonders if there is one.

Imagine a front wheel drive Polaris Slingshot with 3 times the power.


Thanks. Off to start a new project!


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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-25-16, 2:34
 
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I thought that mod was for the 2gs, not the 1gs. I don't remember seeing anything about being able to convert the 1g brakes to the Mazda6 setup. Correct me if i'm wrong, though.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-29-16, 9:21
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mprtftr View Post
I thought that mod was for the 2gs, not the 1gs. I don't remember seeing anything about being able to convert the 1g brakes to the Mazda6 setup. Correct me if i'm wrong, though.
1g.

"We've" been doing it for years.

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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 12-29-16, 18:47
 
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Out of curiosity I looked up the prices of calipers, disks and pads for a Mazda 6 at Rockauto. This also got me wondering what bolt on upgrade Mazda 6 owners use, it's seems they use MazdaSpeed 6 disks, calipers and pads as a direct bolt on upgrade.

I compared the two out of curiosity. (Keep in mind I looked on internet forums for upgrades and rockauto vender info on their products).
As far as price goes, the re-manufactured calipers with brackets and hardware are about the same price and core charge for both M6 and MS6. The pads are also about the same prices, the MS6 disks are on average 39% more expensive then M6 disks but they are almost 1.5" larger.
If the MS6 set-up is an actual bolt on and fits the F2T it will require the same disk or carrier spacing as the Mazda6 to fit.

Mazda 6 Caliper:


MazdaSpeed6 Caliper


The Mazda Speed 6 caliper has the same piston surface as the 6 caliper and will only deliver the clamping force supplied by the brake booster and master of the vehicle their used on. Perhaps the slider position and caliper design offers slightly better caliper performance. You can definitely see the taller bracket/carrier on the MS6 caliper.

Mazda6 2005 front disk:

Discard Thickness .............23.114
Nominal Thickness.............24.892
Height............................48.75 mm
Lug................................5
Outer Diameter.................282 mm (11.102")
Pattern..........................114.3 mm
Type Vented

MS6 Disk:

Discard Thickness ............23.114
Nominal Thickness............24.892
Height........................... 47.5 mm
Lug................................5
Outer Diameter.................319.7 mm (12.586") (Some labelled as 320mm/12.598")
Pattern...........................114.3 mm
Type Vented

MS6 are the same part number disks for Mazda speed 3's (MS3 calipers and pads are different), from what I can find 17" rims would be the smallest that can be run with MazdaSpeed 6 brakes, some MS3 owners have managed to clear the brakes with 16" rims but the caliper is a much lower profile.
Based on the height of the two disks the MS6 disk and caliper would sit 1.25mm farther from the strut then the M6 Disk.

Mazda6 2005 front brake pad:



MS6 pad:


The Factory 626/Mx6 pads are 129.8mm wide, 52.3mm tall.

The MS6 pad shape and height (taking advantage of the larger disk) would be the real difference but looking at the MS6 caliper picture and pad picture the pistons sits against the top of the pad and not the center, I would think the best clamping force would be delivered if the pads where pushed and pulled in the center, the outside pad would wear evenly but the inner pad might wear more on the upper edge, in turn causing the caliper to follow (with whatever play the sliders allow) and wearing the lower edge on the outer pad.

----------------------

Both the Mazda 6 and MazdaSpeed 6 have many more choices for performance pads then our 88-92 626/mx6 set-ups do.
My personal opinion and experience with brakes, the brake pads are the key to braking, the more aggressive the pads the more they destroy the disks.
The best thing to do is run performance pads with standard factory replacement disks made in Japan or North America and replace the front disks each time you change brake pads.
With the factory F2/F2T brake system the only pads I have not experienced brake fade with over the past 13+years are the EBC red and Yellow pads (which I find expensive), everything else I have run (all kinds of brands, types of compound and performance grades including factory Mazda pads) have faded during spirited drives or a few 5 or 6 high speed accelerations/decelerations.

Both M6 and MS6 larger disks and pad surface should reduce the heat generated during braking, which would reduce the wear and fading due to heat soak.

Mazda6 drivers that do the MS6 upgrade, claim it's the best mod they've done to their car.
Ms6 brakes allow for a minimum wheel size of 17" (perhaps 16" with thick wheel spacers).

This is to compare factory brakes used on a modified Mx6/626 putting out 300+Hpr
The Mazda MX6 weights about 2674 to 2750lbs
The Mazda 6 weighs 3,102 to 3,461 lbs
The Mazdaspeed 6 weighs 3600 lbs
The TR-326 has variable weight with the driver in it. It's a Motor with a seat and a small enclosure around both, as it runs down the track the driver sweats bullets that evaporate and lighten the overall weight. (To be honest I have no Idea if he plans on racing it at the track but the same applies on the street).

Based on vehicle weight it would seem that the brakes from either heavy lump should be adequate to stop an F2T however if you factor in the frequency at which you would make say 100-180km/h (62-111mph)accelerations/decelerations with a modded F2T vs the Mazda 6 and Mazda speed 6.

100-180km/h acceleration
Mazda 6 2004 4I: 26.9 seconds
Mazda 6 2004 V6: 17.8 seconds
Mazdaspeed 6 :12.8 seconds
Modded stock engine F2T : 8 seconds and less

And to be fair- Modded stock MRZ 2.3l engine in MS6 100-180km/h acceleration: The MS6 drive-train will disintegrate and the flat bed driver will never hit 180km/h, if the drive-train could take the power I wager a stock MRZ 2.3l engine making 400BHP blows before the brakes fade.
Love the fact Mazda brought back the turbo with the MSP, MS6 and MS3 but they didn't leave much room for upgrades on stock internals, also factor in the vehicle weight to power/torque and the fact the F2T pulls hardest in 4th and 5th, It can put the brakes through heat cycles quicker. Based on weight it (with proper proportion and rear brakes) should stop 12.8% to 34.6% faster then the Mazda 6- MS6 if all three vehicles are using the same brakes. (Those percentages also represent the amount of wheel hp needed to match the F2T at that weight so if gearing was equal the MS6 would need 403.8 wheel HP to keep up with an Mx6 at 300whp).

In the time a 2004 M6 I4 runs 100-180-100km/h a modded F2T will run it 3.49 times.
In the time a 2006 MS6 runs 100-180-100km/h a modded F2T will run it 1.94 times.

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 1-4-17, 17:25
 
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Can confirm on pad choice being better.

My MX6 was running Carbotech XP8s up front on Mazda 6 stuff. MS6 parts are huge overkill, but you've done the homework. In either situation, i would suggest 1" master cylinder or bigger.

“One thing I’ve noticed over the years is that if you drive into London at 6am, half of the cars on the roads are Porsches and Astons. Whereas if you go in at ten to nine, they’re all Renaults. Simple solution, then. You want a nice car? Get up earlier and do more work.”

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I just wanted to fit the largest disc/brake pad combo I could and retain the 15" rims. Has to look stock for daily driving and fits 15" b-4000/ford ranger wheels with 26" slicks for the track nights. I'm using a different offset rim though and it all looks pretty damn tight. To be honest the car brakes decent, nothing amazing. Then again it has junkyard calipers and pads at the moment. I quickly cleaned up the bores and sliders and pads. Yeh flame on, lol I got lots of power and not so much brakes and it makes me an idiot blablabla. Actually the engine is out of the car and gone for a "bulletproof" bottom end rebuild so don't worry I'm not killing anyone. I'm still looking for a Mx3 v6 rear assembly to make it rear disc.
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