[fredio54]

Rod has a point about dedication. Sometimes if someone were to tackle a MS setup they could give up halfway because it is after all harder then getting it done for you. Most guys on here are young and even a little setback will hit them hard.

I believe I said that above, but : You have to put the time and effort into ms for it to be a success. It's not for everyone. You can have a good system cheap, but you have to put in work. Or you can have good system for many $ and put in no work. You can't have a good system cheap and put in no work. No free lunches.

Originally Posted by rodhog

THe truth be known the reason most people don't get the support is because, they ain't payers.

Seems plain stupid to pay for something you can get for free ;-)

Ms is good for the baby street budget guys. But you won't see end over end compeition guys using it. It's as simple as that.

They are doing it for the racing, not for the car. They don't want to spend the time and love on it to make it perfect. They want to plug in and go. They are making the right choice.

because they have bent or burnt valves or cracked pistons ?

MS has never been responsible for that. In fact, all the people on this site with burnt valves and cracked pistons are on OEM ecu's and the one that defies that rule (AMD) readily admits it was his fault (driving the car hard in cold air at night with railed injectors). MS users care and make sure it's right. $$ can do the same thing. You can't have performance and reliability without either CARE OR DOLLARS, but you speak like you can ONLY have it with dollars and this is 100% NOT true.

I build a motor up but it blows up on the street or dyno because they didn't want to pay for me run it up on a engine dyno with a engine management system, I knew or liked.

If it blows up, the tuner is 100% responsible (unless it was mechanical fault). IE if that happened to you, you suck. period.

I'm just telling these people the way it is.

Nope, you are misleading them and telling them they can not do it without dollars. I'm saying you can trade dollars for time and I my funny looking friend am right!

Superlap Australia - Time Attack

I'm sure there is going to be alot of guys with MS in the street class.

Super Lap 2008 at Pukekohe: Results -- Performance Car | Modified drift, drag and import machines

That's funny, all evos etc ;-) Will be worth a laugh when the mighty ute shows up on that list! :-)

ANYone who thinks cheap second hand parts, diy built ecu's and home/street tune is better then a custom manifold with aftermarket managment and a professionally tuned setup has got to be on drugs

Sounds like you are on drugs mate! Can I get the phone number of your dealer? It must be really good stuff ;-)

if you are happy with the cheap set up then be happy with it but don't try and sell it off as being better in ANY way shape or form

Is MOTEC the best? YES. Has MS2 been tested side by side on the engine dyno with MOTEC? YES. Did the MS2 unit make equal power and have equal timing accuracy and fueling accuracy to the BEST? YES.

So, why is it cheaper then?

Does MS have all the bells and whistles that you might ever want? NO. Can MS do sequential control for a perfect idle with HUGE injectors? NO. Is MS an open box, wire in turn key solution? Can be, but with increased price only. Usually it takes time and effort to make it all come together. IE you have to understand it. This is why it is cheaper, and this is why most ignorant lazy fools don't bother. I'd like to sit your pro tuned car on a dyno and measure it's parameters myself. You may find it's not as perfect as driving it has led you to believe. Or it may be spot on. You may never know :-p

cool to hear your running the FE-Dohc with GT2560r setup. What power figures are you making by the way?

From garrets site : 330crank hp max : TurboByGarrett.com - Catalog

Sometimes the cheap setup is better though as Fred explained. MS2's features and capabilities is well up there with the higher end ECU models, and MS1 hangs with the lower models. You dont always get the best when you pay the highest premium not when you pay extra for something you dont need.

Well said.