Yet Another FI Q - Page 2

**02kyle** · 5-14-08, 9:44

ok well here is the deal man. can you use ebay stuff yes. will it last maybe? they are hit and miss. some things you dont want to trust to ebay. such as things that let the extra pressure go. cheap waste gate and cheap bov's, and couplers are not a good idea. if you have the money to spend then do it right the first time or the 2nd will cost much more. if you dont have the money to do it right the first time.... I would say dont do it. boost will cost you in the long run and you have to get plenty of upgrades to go with it.

you really need to read up on boost to make sure it is what you want. boost sounds like a good idea to everyone untill they really get into it. take your time and get the parts one at a time. many of us have been putting a kit together for a long time! myself I am getting close towards 8 months or so. but the good news is I will have the rest of my parts around 2 weeks.

make sure you get a good tune! that is key. you can run a dirty tune and blow your car up if you dont watch it. my tune is going to run me 500 bucks

but worth every cent!

what sort of power are you looking for? maybe spray would be better for ya if it is a lower number? just a thought..

**MaDkAtT44** · 5-14-08, 16:13

Lol, i'm just never happy with my cars, but I don't like NOS, i think thats kind cheating, and its expensive. if you run it a lot. I just like to learn, i've played with SBC/SBF since i was a kid, Done S/C before. But i just want a little boost Max 5psi to begin with. I like working on these cars, lol as my girl say "toy cars" which is really all they are. I just wanted to know about clearance issues and how much beating our cars can take. I personally think it pointless to put too much power in a FWD. If i do this i want to do it right the first time. I was going to go with ebay: pipes, IC, boost controller, turbo exhaust, and perhaps turbo it self. For the rest MS, BOV, WG, gonna go brand name. I'm doing all the work myself. in the middle of Max Boost right now, but i am just not sure on the routing of the piping, IC place ment, ects.

cf_z · 5-16-08, 11:35

theres no way i coulda kept my ac condenser with my set up.

and yes all my pipes/intercooler seemed to be just as good of quality as ive ever seen.

**Goatcrapp** · 5-16-08, 18:34

I had a t25/28 hybrid.

It was way small, and even daily driving, aggressively chewed up the compressor fins.

The smallest i would go is a t3 based turbo.

I've been very very happy with my "large small turbo" super 60 (mine with the .82 (or 84??) a/r) boost is always on tap, and it does well in the high end. It won't give you the peak numbers you'd get from a larger turbo, but will give you a very very wide powerband, and meaty midrange torque. I've spun mine to 14 psi, but it won't go higher... daily driven 10 psi is just about where this turbo likes to be on a 2.5 DE. Behind a ZE however, you might find it running out of breath up top (as compared to the engine's natural power curve)

just FWIW.

t25/28 or any hybrid version of the two is just too small.

**MaDkAtT44** · 5-16-08, 21:48

Thanks, Is the T3/T4 water or oil cooled, i know max boost says that water cooled the best but it it really necessary with out cars?

**Goatcrapp** · 5-16-08, 21:59

"oil cooled" is a misnomer. The oil is there to lubricate, only. As a side effect, it does absorb some of the heat and carry it away... but very very slowly.

If you opt to not have a water cooled center cartridge - you can't just turn the car off after a hard run.. it will "coke" the oil in the turbo - causing it to separate and carbonize. Thats why they have turbo timers - allowing you to lock and leave the car, but having the car idle (which contributes far lower exhaust temps to the turbo than a high boost run) and allowing the oil to circulate until the turbo is adequately cooled down.

A water cooled turbo will virtually eliminate the need for a turbo timer, however, the rule still stands that you shouldn't turn off a vehicle *right* after running it very hard... but day to day driving, the turbo itself will stay cooler.

There is no discernable difference in performance.. its purely to increase longevity of the turbo and not beat up your oil a lot, especialyl if you don't want to install a turbo timer.

**MaDkAtT44** · 5-18-08, 15:54

lol ya i understand the oil doesn't actual cool it but thats no the pint, so water cooled isn't a huge deal?, i only wanted to know because its going to be a DD and i want reliability, lol as much as i can with a non stock T/C, If the Turbo does choke, will it affect the engine or just blow the bearing in the Turbo? I am also not planning on running high boost, max 5psi for now. And i won't be racing or pushing the car so non water, should be fine?

**Turk** · 5-20-08, 9:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDkAtT44

lol ya i understand the oil doesn't actual cool it but thats no the pint, so water cooled isn't a huge deal?, i only wanted to know because its going to be a DD and i want reliability, lol as much as i can with a non stock T/C, If the Turbo does choke, will it affect the engine or just blow the bearing in the Turbo? I am also not planning on running high boost, max 5psi for now. And i won't be racing or pushing the car so non water, should be fine?

Re read Goatcrapp's comment, nothing more can be said. If you are going to spend decent money on a decent turbo ie say about 1k+ then definately go water cooled for peace of mind. If you are using an ebay turbo that will be a throw away item for say $200, well then the extra cost of watercooled probably isnt worth it.

It only damages the turbo not the engine, though I suppose burnt oil is not good for an engine either.

Mine is only "oil cooled" I just let it sit for a few minutes at idle after a beating, and generally drive it for 5 mins or so nice and slow before I even do that. When I do get a better turbo though, water cooled all the way just for the fact of not having to sit in a carpark for a minute every time that gives you the [shizzle]s. Havent gotten around to getting a turbo timer admitingly.

**KING6** · 5-20-08, 22:04

A bad turbo can definetly ruin a motor. If the compressor wheel starts chewing itself up.. all of it will go throught the motor.. if it doesnt get stuck in the intercooler.

**Turk** · 5-21-08, 2:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by KING6

A bad turbo can definetly ruin a motor. If the compressor wheel starts chewing itself up.. all of it will go throught the motor.. if it doesnt get stuck in the intercooler.

That is a bit of a stretch to happen from just oil coking though isnt it? Surely it would just seize up and not spit everything into the engine.

**MaDkAtT44** · 5-21-08, 13:48

That is what i would be afraid of, don't want till kill my new ZE from a Turbo gone bad

**KING6** · 5-21-08, 20:36

id wager that lack of oil would wear the bearings quicker, resulting in shaft play.. allowing the compressor wheel to destroy its self in the compressor housing.

**MaDkAtT44** · 5-21-08, 21:37

ya that does make sense, and i've seen what a small chunk of metal can do to a cyclender wall or the piston, not a pretty sight

5-14-08, 9:44	#16 (permalink)
02kyle Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: columbus,ohio, OSU!!, OH, USA Age: 24 iTrader: (1)	ok well here is the deal man. can you use ebay stuff yes. will it last maybe? they are hit and miss. some things you dont want to trust to ebay. such as things that let the extra pressure go. cheap waste gate and cheap bov's, and couplers are not a good idea. if you have the money to spend then do it right the first time or the 2nd will cost much more. if you dont have the money to do it right the first time.... I would say dont do it. boost will cost you in the long run and you have to get plenty of upgrades to go with it. you really need to read up on boost to make sure it is what you want. boost sounds like a good idea to everyone untill they really get into it. take your time and get the parts one at a time. many of us have been putting a kit together for a long time! myself I am getting close towards 8 months or so. but the good news is I will have the rest of my parts around 2 weeks. make sure you get a good tune! that is key. you can run a dirty tune and blow your car up if you dont watch it. my tune is going to run me 500 bucks but worth every cent! what sort of power are you looking for? maybe spray would be better for ya if it is a lower number? just a thought..
	<------- the smilie king http://www.freewebs.com/mx6kyle/ go here^^^^for all my cars info my car has its own web page now! nealio- "I'd love to Double Dong a bitch without another dude's help. That would be Epic"

5-14-08, 16:13	#17 (permalink)
MaDkAtT44 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Okville, Canada Age: 20 iTrader: (1)	Lol, i'm just never happy with my cars, but I don't like NOS, i think thats kind cheating, and its expensive. if you run it a lot. I just like to learn, i've played with SBC/SBF since i was a kid, Done S/C before. But i just want a little boost Max 5psi to begin with. I like working on these cars, lol as my girl say "toy cars" which is really all they are. I just wanted to know about clearance issues and how much beating our cars can take. I personally think it pointless to put too much power in a FWD. If i do this i want to do it right the first time. I was going to go with ebay: pipes, IC, boost controller, turbo exhaust, and perhaps turbo it self. For the rest MS, BOV, WG, gonna go brand name. I'm doing all the work myself. in the middle of Max Boost right now, but i am just not sure on the routing of the piping, IC place ment, ects.
	'93 MX6 ZE Dark Force CAI, lightened Flywheel, 2nd stage clutch, walbro, FPR, and J-spec VAF/ECU Doing the Research for FI...Coming Soon 2" lower kit for sale almost new ask for details

5-16-08, 11:35	#18 (permalink)
cf_z Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fort Wayne, IN, USA Age: 18 iTrader: (8)	theres no way i coulda kept my ac condenser with my set up. and yes all my pipes/intercooler seemed to be just as good of quality as ive ever seen.
	MY SIX, since-day-one. WTB: South Bend or Clutchmasters Clutch. PM me with what you have. g-meter'd at 65 HP haller.

5-16-08, 18:34	#19 (permalink)
Goatcrapp Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: brooklyn, NY Age: 29 iTrader: (1)	I had a t25/28 hybrid. It was way small, and even daily driving, aggressively chewed up the compressor fins. The smallest i would go is a t3 based turbo. I've been very very happy with my "large small turbo" super 60 (mine with the .82 (or 84??) a/r) boost is always on tap, and it does well in the high end. It won't give you the peak numbers you'd get from a larger turbo, but will give you a very very wide powerband, and meaty midrange torque. I've spun mine to 14 psi, but it won't go higher... daily driven 10 psi is just about where this turbo likes to be on a 2.5 DE. Behind a ZE however, you might find it running out of breath up top (as compared to the engine's natural power curve) just FWIW. t25/28 or any hybrid version of the two is just too small.
	MX6 #1 [x]Turbo [x]Big Brakes [x]Jspec headlights [x]HID [x]K-Sport Coilovers [x]MSefi [x]Liquid/air I/C [x] 44 kit [x]108mph 1320 [x]oem lip decklid spoiler [x]misc [ ...] done? [x]MX6 #2. SOLD [x]Toyota Paseo. 42MPG. [x]5.9 Jeep. #1's tow vehicle. Still faster than most KL's.//Modifications List

5-16-08, 21:48	#20 (permalink)
MaDkAtT44 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Okville, Canada Age: 20 iTrader: (1)	Thanks, Is the T3/T4 water or oil cooled, i know max boost says that water cooled the best but it it really necessary with out cars?
	'93 MX6 ZE Dark Force CAI, lightened Flywheel, 2nd stage clutch, walbro, FPR, and J-spec VAF/ECU Doing the Research for FI...Coming Soon 2" lower kit for sale almost new ask for details

5-16-08, 21:59	#21 (permalink)
Goatcrapp Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: brooklyn, NY Age: 29 iTrader: (1)	"oil cooled" is a misnomer. The oil is there to lubricate, only. As a side effect, it does absorb some of the heat and carry it away... but very very slowly. If you opt to not have a water cooled center cartridge - you can't just turn the car off after a hard run.. it will "coke" the oil in the turbo - causing it to separate and carbonize. Thats why they have turbo timers - allowing you to lock and leave the car, but having the car idle (which contributes far lower exhaust temps to the turbo than a high boost run) and allowing the oil to circulate until the turbo is adequately cooled down. A water cooled turbo will virtually eliminate the need for a turbo timer, however, the rule still stands that you shouldn't turn off a vehicle right after running it very hard... but day to day driving, the turbo itself will stay cooler. There is no discernable difference in performance.. its purely to increase longevity of the turbo and not beat up your oil a lot, especialyl if you don't want to install a turbo timer.
	MX6 #1 [x]Turbo [x]Big Brakes [x]Jspec headlights [x]HID [x]K-Sport Coilovers [x]MSefi [x]Liquid/air I/C [x] 44 kit [x]108mph 1320 [x]oem lip decklid spoiler [x]misc [ ...] done? [x]MX6 #2. SOLD [x]Toyota Paseo. 42MPG. [x]5.9 Jeep. #1's tow vehicle. Still faster than most KL's.//Modifications List

5-18-08, 15:54	#22 (permalink)
MaDkAtT44 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Okville, Canada Age: 20 iTrader: (1)	lol ya i understand the oil doesn't actual cool it but thats no the pint, so water cooled isn't a huge deal?, i only wanted to know because its going to be a DD and i want reliability, lol as much as i can with a non stock T/C, If the Turbo does choke, will it affect the engine or just blow the bearing in the Turbo? I am also not planning on running high boost, max 5psi for now. And i won't be racing or pushing the car so non water, should be fine?
	'93 MX6 ZE Dark Force CAI, lightened Flywheel, 2nd stage clutch, walbro, FPR, and J-spec VAF/ECU Doing the Research for FI...Coming Soon 2" lower kit for sale almost new ask for details

5-20-08, 22:04	#24 (permalink)
KING6 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Central, USA Age: 24 iTrader: (13)	A bad turbo can definetly ruin a motor. If the compressor wheel starts chewing itself up.. all of it will go throught the motor.. if it doesnt get stuck in the intercooler.
	The King OF AFTERMARKET/USED PARTS F/S < 94/LS-T -possibly for sale. B.O

5-21-08, 13:48	#26 (permalink)
MaDkAtT44 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Okville, Canada Age: 20 iTrader: (1)	That is what i would be afraid of, don't want till kill my new ZE from a Turbo gone bad
	'93 MX6 ZE Dark Force CAI, lightened Flywheel, 2nd stage clutch, walbro, FPR, and J-spec VAF/ECU Doing the Research for FI...Coming Soon 2" lower kit for sale almost new ask for details

5-21-08, 20:36	#27 (permalink)
KING6 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Central, USA Age: 24 iTrader: (13)	id wager that lack of oil would wear the bearings quicker, resulting in shaft play.. allowing the compressor wheel to destroy its self in the compressor housing.
	The King OF AFTERMARKET/USED PARTS F/S < 94/LS-T -possibly for sale. B.O

5-21-08, 21:37	#28 (permalink)
MaDkAtT44 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Okville, Canada Age: 20 iTrader: (1)	ya that does make sense, and i've seen what a small chunk of metal can do to a cyclender wall or the piston, not a pretty sight
	'93 MX6 ZE Dark Force CAI, lightened Flywheel, 2nd stage clutch, walbro, FPR, and J-spec VAF/ECU Doing the Research for FI...Coming Soon 2" lower kit for sale almost new ask for details