Ignition Timing. (KLZE, KL31 Ecu, JE50, DE Disty) - Mazda MX6 Forums: MX6 Forum
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Old 6-2-09, 0:14   #1 (permalink)
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Ignition Timing. (KLZE, KL31 Ecu, JE50, DE Disty)

Alright here's the situation. I'm very competent with this motor, and hate being defeated by a problem......but I have been defeated. I took my disty apart a few weeks ago and put new seals and a new bearing in it. Put everything back together, blah blah blah. About 4 days later the car starts cutting out when I get to 4k, and shuts down if I try to continue accelerating.

I was stumped for a few days, and had the epiphany of a lifetime: You forgot to reset your ignition timing, dumbass (excuse my french ). So I retarded the timing a little, and the problem was GONE. However, this was not good enough for me. I wanted to be SURE the timing was dead on......so I grabbed my timing light.

Now, here is the problem i'm having now. I jump the GND and TEN pins, turn the key on, and hear it go into diag mode. Start the car, shine the timing light on the harmonic balancer, and it is sitting on T. Hmm, it should be at 10, not T. So I loosen the disty, and rotate it either way........and the mark stays in the same spot. If I advance it all the way, the motor will die. Retard all the way, and nothing happens. The mark will not move at all.

Any ideas? Like I said in the thread title, I have a KLZE, KL31 Ecu, JE50, and a DE disty. Also, the car is a 1995 Mx-6.

Thanks! -Ron

The Daily: 1994 Mazda 626 Lx I4 Atx
The Project: 1995 Mazda Mx6 Ls V6 Mtx

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Old 6-2-09, 0:43   #2 (permalink)
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sounds really weird. you sure you got your induction coil for the timing gun on plug wire #1 ?

also, when you retard/advance it, do you hear the engine rpms going up and down? did you adjust your tps beforehand? also open your idle air screw to 3 turns open before doing the timing just in case

sounds like it's not really going into diagnostic mode

96 Mx6 LSDE R.I.P
93 Mx6 LSZE
94 Miata 1.8T
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Old 6-2-09, 0:49   #3 (permalink)
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Yes plug wire 1. Rpms do not fluctuate. Pinned on 650 + or - 10 rpms. And my TPS is spot on. I have the DE tps on it right now, i'll try the ZE TPS in the morning.

The Daily: 1994 Mazda 626 Lx I4 Atx
The Project: 1995 Mazda Mx6 Ls V6 Mtx

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Old 7-7-09, 10:53   #4 (permalink)
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I still have this issue. Does anyone have any ideas?

The Daily: 1994 Mazda 626 Lx I4 Atx
The Project: 1995 Mazda Mx6 Ls V6 Mtx

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Old 7-7-09, 12:50   #5 (permalink)
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A faulty/Mis-adjusted TPS would also be my guess.

Try adjusting the TPS using the fan=off method


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Old 7-7-09, 15:33   #6 (permalink)
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are you possitive you have a connection in the diag box for TEN ? the majority of 95's will probably be OBDII, in which case you cannot set the timing, and there is no need to 'base' set the timing as its all done by sensors.

when you say you hear it going in to diag mode, when exactly is it you are hearing ?

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Old 7-8-09, 13:10   #7 (permalink)
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are you possitive you have a connection in the diag box for TEN ? the majority of 95's will probably be OBDII, in which case you cannot set the timing, and there is no need to 'base' set the timing as its all done by sensors.

when you say you hear it going in to diag mode, when exactly is it you are hearing ?
I hear it going through the checks as I first turn the key, and if I move the throttle with the motor off the fans turn on. I know for a fact it's OBDI. I marked where the distributor was when I was able to time it with the aspec ECU and vaf, which was 10 BTDC. If I put it there now, it will backfire everytime I start it if it sits for a few hours (leaky injector?) unless I retard the timing a little bit. Note: It didn't start backfiring when cranked until I installed MSD, so I blame that problem on combustion still taking place as the exhaust valve opens.

I could never set the timing with this ECU and VAF combo, and it's really making me mad because everyone else supposedly can.

I just put the ZE TPS back on, set it correctly, made sure the throttle was in the correct position....still can't time it.

And to further your mind more with information, I took the distributor apart one night and replaced the bearing and seal in it, marked everything with a sharpie, and put it back together. That's when things started going downhill.

The Daily: 1994 Mazda 626 Lx I4 Atx
The Project: 1995 Mazda Mx6 Ls V6 Mtx

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Old 7-8-09, 15:43   #8 (permalink)
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why cant you time it with the probinator chip'd ecu ? whats the issue ?

plus another thought, do you need a je50 with a probinator chip ? i thought he created the map so you could use the std DE vaf ?

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Old 7-9-09, 13:42   #9 (permalink)
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Red face

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why cant you time it with the probinator chip'd ecu ? whats the issue ?

plus another thought, do you need a je50 with a probinator chip ? i thought he created the map so you could use the std DE vaf ?
I have a KL31 in the car with a JE50, KL85 AND KL02 VAF(stock) in my garage. Should I just set base timing with the KL85?

My only concern is that the KL31 won't recognize base timing since I will have timed it with the KL85....if I decide to swap them to time the motor.

The Daily: 1994 Mazda 626 Lx I4 Atx
The Project: 1995 Mazda Mx6 Ls V6 Mtx

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Old 7-9-09, 13:57   #10 (permalink)
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sorry but reading back i have referenced 'probinators' chip for some dumb reason, must have been thinking of another thread i had just replied to at the time.

Right .. so you have a std KL31 j-spec ecu with a je50 vaf and you cannot get the engine to time ? and the car is a manual transmission ? if you still have your std ecu and vaf, i would try swaping them back in and seeing if you can then time the engne. if so, you then know either the kl31 or je50 could well be faulty.

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Old 7-9-09, 21:46   #11 (permalink)
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Found one of my VRIS plugs wasn't plugged in today.

Going to give it another shot at timing it tomorrow, hoping that was the problem.

The Daily: 1994 Mazda 626 Lx I4 Atx
The Project: 1995 Mazda Mx6 Ls V6 Mtx

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Old 7-10-09, 4:52   #12 (permalink)
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The un-connected VRIS plug will not cure this problem, although it does bring into question posible vacuum leaks from pipes not connected/broken.

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Old 7-10-09, 21:51   #13 (permalink)
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I've never had to put it in diag.mode to time it, never had problems with it either. Its really puzzling that your rpms dont change when you rotate the distributor? When you advance it you should lose rpms and you should gain rpms by retarding. If you can figure this out I suggest a 2* advance, my ze loved it.
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Old 7-11-09, 5:41   #14 (permalink)
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You cannot time the engine whist the ECU is still engaged on 93/94 obdi motors. Every change you make, the ecu will compensate for and you will not see a change in rpm or the timing mark move, the sensors are running the show. 93/94's require a base setting, with the ecu in diag mode, 95 and obdii do not require a base setting and you cannot adjust the timing, its all done automatically by the sensors.

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Old 7-17-09, 21:12   #15 (permalink)
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Ok. Put the stock ECU and VAF in. I can time the motor, it starts quicker, and feels MUCH stronger.

Could this be a VAF problem?

The only thing I can think of is wiring in my 95 being different than a 94's harness....maybe a few pins are swapped.......Does anyone have a pinout for a 94 ecu and a 95 ecu? I searched around and didn't find exactly what I wanted..

Thanks for the help so far! Karma given if was able to!

The Daily: 1994 Mazda 626 Lx I4 Atx
The Project: 1995 Mazda Mx6 Ls V6 Mtx

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