Found another new problem with the 626 calipers...rebuild kits. This isn't a problem for anyone that buys it new/reman'd, but I noticed at the yard that the piston seal was torn and it didn't faze me, I figured a seal kit is only about $10 so the total cost would be about $50. Then I tried to find a kit for the caliper...not happening...not even from Mazda. I really hope the seals from my mx6 calipers are the same size as those on the 626 caliper.
By backwards searching part numbers on the cardone site, it appears that the '98-'02 2.5L V6 626 front brake caliper was only used on that car in those 4 years. No other models or years come up. That means low volume and difficulty finding parts piece meal. bummer. I still think this is a great mod.
I don't have any junk yards close to me. I wonder if a parts store would let me get reman 626 pieces and turn in my probe/mx6 pieces as the core? Prices and core charges very wildly from Advance to Autozone. At Advance, the fronts cost about the same but probe/mx6's core is actually worth significantly more than the 98+ 626's! The rears are exactly the same.
okay, did a little more searching. The front rebuilt kit is Beck/Arnley #071-7935 and it's actually readily available at the major on-line retailers. And get this, it's the same part number for all the front brakes, pre and post '98, for all the related cars probe/mx6/626. It doesn't matter. It's all good. That must mean that even though the front pre and post '98 calipers are different, the piston/cylinder must be the same along with the other assorted bits of plastic and rubber.
Not true...kinda. The rubber piston seals, the o-ring in the caliper bore, and the rubber spring thing (attaches to caliper, goes over slider bolted to bracket) are the same. The 4th part, the one that you have to screw a slider pin through is different. On the mx6 calipers the bolt you slide through has a 12mm hex on it (for a socket), whereas on the 626 the bolt has a slot/bore for an allen head. The 626 bolt is also thinner so if you try to use the mx6 bushing the caliper will move around on the slider.
I just finished rebuilding the 626 calipers using parts from my mx6 calipers so I know this first hand.
Awesome! First hand knowledge is key! All I can do is search the web.
You've found the key difference between our calipers and 626 calipers. I wonder why they bothered to change the slider pins? If the piston/cylinder is the same why not just change the bracket and leave the rest alone like the rears? Maybe they just did it to make our lives difficult...
Okay after more searching:
The bushing kit is Dorman #HW16092. It is at rockauto.com. It's less than $5. Oddly, it is not listed on the Dorman website. This is a different part number than that for the pre '98 cars so lets hope it's right.
...and it wasn't even easy for me to find on-line. Autozone doesn't seem to carry it and I didn't see it at first on PartsAmerica but they do have it. Low volume parts are a pain and it's annoying that you have to mix and match the kits. Luckily, it's fairly cheap.
Anyway, so how's it all working? Do you have it all together? Is it driveable? What's it like? I want to do this. I'm jealous. Give us an on-road report as soon as you can!
Hey, does it look like you could swap the caliper bolt/pins from the mx6 onto the 626 bracket? Are the lengths and threads the same? If that works, it would allow you to use the mx6 caliper, right? Or are there other differences? Could the mx6 caliper handle the larger 626 pad? That worries me a bit but we've established that the piston is the same.
For s&gs, I tried looking up caliper bolt/pin parts and some different part numbers pop up and some same part numbers pop up. For example, at rockauto, when I look up the 2.0I4 626 and compare to the 2.5V6 626 it's the same - that can't be right based off what you've found. At PartsAmerica, the same Dorman parts are listed but the Raybestos is different - and the 626 piece clearly needs an allen key like you said. In any case, it's confusing and people could easily order the wrong thing. The safest thing would be to take in the part and compare pieces at the store. Or, look around at various vendors, see which part numbers match, ignore them then find the one that doesn't match and take a gamble on that one.
Everything is together, and working. It's hard for me to say how much of an upgrade it is since I haven't pushed them all that hard repeadedly so I don't know about fade. As for feel, that's hard too since my brakes were warped so bad that they warped themselves straight again (no $hit, this is actually true). Overall I'm quite pleased, and the cost difference being so small is definitely worth it. I do warn, anyone with 14" wheels probably won't clear the calipers. I have my winter wheels on (stock 95+ rims) and the face of them just barely clears the caliper, in one spot there's no more than 2mm clearance. I don't know about the 93-94 sunflower style rims, anyone with those should try the rims on a 626 before they do the swap.
The slider pins are definitely different, On the mx6 the slider is thicker, it has a 12mm hex (previously mentioned), and the threaded part that screws into the bracket is bigger than on the 626. In short, they are not interchangeable. The difference in price at the scrapyard I got the calipers from was $20 for the brackets, and $14 for the calipers. $14 is not worth the trouble of half-assing it imo. Get the calipers.
If you're going to the yard to get calipers, before you do anything, try to loosen the bleeder, if it breaks, keep looking. Next, use a clamp to push the pads/piston back. If there's no movement, keep looking (unless you want to rebuild the caliper). Then make sure the caliper isn't seized onto the slider. This is fixable if it is, but it's a pain in the ass. Finally, check to see if the seals are torn. Mine were, so I had to rebuild the calipers (pistons were seized too), but it's not hard if you've done it before.
If you're going to the yard to get calipers, before you do anything, try to loosen the bleeder, if it breaks, keep looking. Next, use a clamp to push the pads/piston back. If there's no movement, keep looking (unless you want to rebuild the caliper). Then make sure the caliper isn't seized onto the slider. This is fixable if it is, but it's a pain in the ass. Finally, check to see if the seals are torn. Mine were, so I had to rebuild the calipers (pistons were seized too), but it's not hard if you've done it before.
Great tips!
I hope PGT rims will clear them 'cause that's what I got.
I think I'm going to do this upgrade, but with new (reman'd) calipers/brackets all around, then match them up with some high-quality slotted or dimpled rotors like PowerSlots or something.
Unfortunately there are other, more important things (fix the daily/transmission/christmas) on my plate at the moment, but I do really look forward to this little upgrade.
I tried to do this tonight, and it's not possible to use the stock calipers, you NEED the 626 calipers. With some force and using the smaller 626 slider pins you can get the mx6 calipers to work. But, it' half-assed since the sliders are too small, not to mention it looks like the caliper is rubbing against the pads. The piston is definitely big enough on the mx6 calipers, they just don't have enough clearance.
Anyone doing this should definitely get the calipers also. I have to go back to the scrapyard tomorrow to pick up the calipers...wish I'd just taken them right from the start.
This post applies to the front only, I don't know about the rears. The rotors are about 1/2" taller than the mx6's, and the venting is narrower meaning there's more metal. Not to mention the difference in pad size is substantial, so it's still a very worth-while upgrade. The total cost of brakes from the scrapyard with brackets is less than $40 so the price difference is neglegable.
Mine fit just like stock But I have had a strange grinding noise during moderate to hard braking that has slowly lessned at I continue to break them in.
I'll pull the fronts appart and edit my original post if that turns out to be the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue94
So what would be better for the rear? The P5's larger pads on the original mx6/P5 rotor diameter or the original mx6/626 sized pads on the larger 626 rotor diameter? How do auto engineers figure this stuff? I'm sure there's some mathematical way to plug in rotor diameter, pad size, clamping force, and pad coefficient of friction to figure this out. If you have to make pad friction the same and hope clamping force is the same (or that you know what it is for each if not the same) and then, knowing the rotor diameters and pad surface area, you can see which is best, right? So anyone know how to do that? or does any one just know which is best without having to do that?
So for the front, is this 626 upgrade the best/cheapest/easiest for our cars that requires NO machining, drilling, grinding, special brackets, spacers etc. Is there anything better for similar budget? Is this the holly grail of brake upgrades? I've found plenty of threads about upgrades but it's either for very pricey kits, requires more skill than I have to pull off, or leaves me worried about ABS compatibility, master cylinder size etc etc. I'm really enjoying this tread because it seems really inexpensive and no harder than a normal brake job. I like the idea of just getting the 626 stuff, bolting it on, and driving off. Thanks guys!
I dont have ABS and I didnt have the I4 protege brake mod either. I say if you have otherwise stock brakes do the 98+ mod at all 4 corners. If you have I4's mod then go ahead and grab all 4 brackets but save some $$ and just do the front rotors+pads till the rears are ready to be replaced.
I4's mod is still the best option if you run 14" wheels for the track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue94
Great tips!
I hope PGT rims will clear them 'cause that's what I got.
I have GT swirlies and they fit fine.
Im glad there is so much interest in this mod. I really dont have the $$ or time to explore all the options. Not to mention the weather is turning cold here lol. We got first snow fall this week
Last edited by ls six : 4-10-09 at 13:39.
96 MX-6 full exhaust A/C delete spoiler delete probe wheels and a turbo in the worx. 01 626 brake's98 626 sway bar Altima rear sway bar links.http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2934576
90 pontiac transam. 350 TPI motor new 24# injectors. Rebuilt trans. lots to come.
Serious indeed. Otherwise I am at a total loss for the "upgrade". I can lock up my MX6 brakes just fine and bring the car to a skidding halt. At which point the tires are the limiting factor in braking not the brakes themselves. Further, fade is a complete non-issue off of a race track, as in it does not exist, if you are having fade problems in street driving you have a mechanical issue.
I have tracked my MX a few times. While it certainly is nowhere near as good as my Porsche on track it does a fine job for what it is and the stock brakes are more than adequate.
I know, I know, upgraded brakes look cooler...but slapping the wrong pads in the caliper because they "fit" is hardly an upgrade. I do admire the people willing to test these things though.
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I'm sure there's some mathematical way to plug in rotor diameter, pad size, clamping force, and pad coefficient of friction to figure this out. If you have to make pad friction the same and hope clamping force is the same (or that you know what it is for each if not the same) and then, knowing the rotor diameters and pad surface area, you can see which is best, right? So anyone know how to do that? or does any one just know which is best without having to do that?
