I4 modification FAQ

[LARKEN]

If you want to reduce the compression on your I4 for turbo, You can put a thicker copper head gasket. My friend did this on his Jetta and it worked well.

hey, all. I know that the probe was a joint venture between ford and mazda. I was wondering if these tips for the mx-6 will work on my 2.0 probe?

[rosecuvee]

Mazda 2.0 4cycl -> Ford Probe SE 2.0 , YES !

Have a 02 engine with some mods i was thinking about a t66 turbo for everyday power.

[pelado]

Originally posted by parisifal
I never said it couldn't be done, just that it has never been done.

And i never said you were incorrect in saying you could turbo the FS-ZE. I said that it would impractical and highly advised against. Corky Bell is an awesome source of information, but boosting a high compression engine requires some pretty extreme engine management and tuning. In fact i'm pretty sure it states that outright in his book on turbos.

This is the first time I've read this FAQ so I apologize for the late post.

I like fast FWD cars but I also like classic cars. I own a 1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire. This car sports a 215 cu.in. all aluminum V-8 that was the predecessor of the modern Range Rover V-8. The Jetfire has a 10.25:1 compression ratio and was turbocharged with a draw through single barrel side draft carburetor. How did Olds get away with turboing a high compression engine? A tank pressurized from the intake manifold contained a 50/50 mix of water and alcohol. If the water injection tank got too low then a second butterfly would drop down in the carb throat and joke the engine so much that you couldn't build any boost, but this prevented engine meltdown. Max boost was 5 psi by the way. This was enough for 215 crank HP from 215 cu. in. One HP per cubic inch from a factory engine was not frequently achieved back then, nor is it now.

Putting a turbo on a high compression engine is very possible, even with something as low tech as a carburetor.

[parisifal]

Originally posted by pelado

Putting a turbo on a high compression engine is very possible, even with something as low tech as a carburetor.

Believe it or not it is possible BECAUSE it is a carburated engine. Remember, the modern car contains more wiring and processing power than the Apollo space capsules. The tuning and adjustment would be a nightmare.

And you are talking about a factory effort, i am talking about a homebrew effort. People please don't forget i am talking about doing this BY OURSELVES. Without millions of support and engineers up to the neck from any factory. Like i stated, anything is possible, but do you have the money?

[pelado]

Originally posted by parisifal

Believe it or not it is possible BECAUSE it is a carburated engine. Remember, the modern car contains more wiring and processing power than the Apollo space capsules. The tuning and adjustment would be a nightmare.

And you are talking about a factory effort, i am talking about a homebrew effort. People please don't forget i am talking about doing this BY OURSELVES. Without millions of support and engineers up to the neck from any factory. Like i stated, anything is possible, but do you have the money?

Anyone with the money to attempt a turbo install should be able to finance this effort.

The tuning and adjustment is the same for any turbo install.

I believe anyone capable of comprehending the concepts of turbocharging can comprehend the concepts of turbocharging a high compression engine. A 10:1 CR engine can be safely turbo'ed as long as the boost is limited to 5-6 psi. A safety system to prevent detonation such as water injection (or a water-to-air intercooler) can be installed.

You speak of it as being impossible and exorbitantly expensive. It isn't.

[parisifal]

Ok take this into perspective.

Only ONE person has ever been able toget an FS-ZE running and it blew up on him in a few months. Now considering that he took it out in a few months due to problems. And the guy had support from about 6 major sponsors and a few garages. ANd since, i have not seen, heard of, or even smell any FS-ZE stateside.

Please people, I am talking about the 2.0 FS-ZE here, i never said it wasn't possible, i do however say that it is very hard. You would have a pain of a time just getting the FS-ZE to run right let alone trying to turbo it and have proper engine management. It's NOT ABOUT CR that is holding anyone back, it's the sheer fact that it's really hard just to get the FS-ZE working right let alone turboing it. In fact call up Corksport and ask them if they would install it for you and guarantee that it'll work right. They might, but even they, one of the largest importer of FS and KL engines HAVE NEVER completed an FS-ZE swap into any platform in this country. Now i would think that they have alot of resources, but they haven't. And yes it is next to impossible without the wiring harnesses and ECU to get it to run right. Sure it can be made to run, but would you be willing to invest that much?

And it is very hard and will be exorbitantly expensive...FOR AN FS-ZE.

Have you ever seen an FS-ZE running? Let alone an FS-ZE with a turbo? It's not about CR, but the compatibility and engine management issues inherent with the turboing of an FS-ZE.

I think i'll have to remind people that this post is about the I4 (FS-03(KD???)) and the FS-ZE, not some other engine.

And once again, why would you want to turbo a 10:1 engine and only able to run 5psi? Why not build up the 03 and have it run 9psi+???? People are impossibly hard headed, saying things like lowering the compression ratio and preventing detonation with water injection. Well why don't you just use the LOWER COMPRESSION engine????? WHy would any of you argue about turboing the FS-ZE when there's really no point since an FS-03 will make more power at lower costs. Heck it is in the beginning of this post, Stage 7 or something, i forgot.

[rosecuvee]

If I remember right, running 6psi @ 10:1 compression produce near same horsepower running 9psi @ 8.5:1 ratio. Not too sure. (forgot the calculation... but I prefer high compression anyway )

At least I have better power curve from 1k to 4k rpm on city streeet.

No matter it is higher or lower compression engine, you want to tune it right to make sure detonation doesn't happen.

Most people can't get the FS-ZE running right is because of the engine management. It is hard to get the FS-ZE running correctly without the original MAF, and ECU from stock engine. Go stand alone is too expensive and not logically economy correct.

an FS-03 will make more power at lower costs.
Not really. Stock FS-ZE is making more horsepower in n/a is because of better manifold design, higher-rev, valve, etc etc. Since most stock engine can handle 8-9psi without problem, I assume FS-ZE too. To evenout the horsepower, you need your FS03 to be running at 11-12psi. At that point, you need to upgrade your rod and piston on FS03 if you going for anything higher than 9psi. Parts dont' come cheap, so I guess the price will run near the same.

[rosecuvee]

Originally posted by parisifal


Believe it or not it is possible BECAUSE it is a carburated engine. Remember, the modern car contains more wiring and processing power than the Apollo space capsules. The tuning and adjustment would be a nightmare.

And you are talking about a factory effort, i am talking about a homebrew effort. People please don't forget i am talking about doing this BY OURSELVES. Without millions of support and engineers up to the neck from any factory. Like i stated, anything is possible, but do you have the money?

Carburated engine has more risk running into LEAN due to the way how it draw air and fuel.
Since carburated are more mechanically involve, it is harder to tune in carburated.

What's the different between homebrew or factory make. You won't have modify your car in the first place, since there is tons and tons of engineers designed your car. Those engineers are right, and you are wrong. You should change your car back to stock !

A lot of people who read/post at this site work as engineer/designer in major car company.

[pelado]

Originally posted by rosecuvee


At least I have better power curve from 1k to 4k rpm on city streeet.

This was THE reason Oldsmobile chose to use a high CR back in 62, low rpm throttle response.

I must point out that they did not just bolt a turbo to their 10.25:1 four barrel carb engine. The turbo engine received beefier main bearing caps, pistons with thicker crowns, hardened exhaust valves, higher grade rod bearings, higher flow fuel pump, different ignition coil, and of course a one-of-a-kind carburetor that is harder than hell to find parts for.

Hi folks. I usually live on the Mazda MP3 Forums , and was led to this thread. I blew my 1st motor using nitrous, and replaced it with the FS-ZE in March, 2002. The FS-ZE intake manifold was stored in my garage while I used the Stock MP3 (FS-DE) Mainifold. I drove with this engine for about 3-4 months before I ran low on oil one day and the rod bearings were eaten. I drove for about 3 more months with the ticking, and by then, a turbo kit was available for the FS motor via BEGI so I bought it. In the process I was gonna get my compression lowered from 10.5:1 to the stock 9.1:1, but ended up having to get my motor overhauled due to cylinder wall gouges that was leaking oil and compression. So now the only thing about my engine that is FS-ZE is the intake camshaft, and the valve cover. One guy has been able to do this:

Link to FS-ZE Hybrid Dyno Results

Here were my dyno results (pre-turbo):

My Dissapointing Dyno (Pre-Turbo)
As you see, I only gained about 7 HP over the stock MP3 WHP.
I have not Dynoed my ride, or been to the track since the Turbo Install.

[ssaiyan4m]

Wow, I'm sorry that you weren't able to pull the kind of #'s as that one guy, but hey give it a proper tuning and hopefully your gains will increase. Welcome to the boards! Let us know how your ride is doing in later runs.

[93MX6NSB]

parisifal, you were talking about a re-build kit from Peaco, do they have a number or website that i can check out to look up how much they are and what not? i blew my engine last week and im not sure if i need to re-build it or just get a new one and also is the fs-03 the same as the fsde? nad which is the fs-02? thanks for ur help

eddie

thanks for startin this thread. i just bought my i4 mx a month ago. and ive done some work to it. exhaust, intake, air filter and some show mods. but i really dont know **** about how to do, or what do next. keep talkin guys. this is a learning experience!