New Intake, Awesome

Chris6 · 3-26-08, 19:16

I got a new intake for my 92 626, it looks good and sounds better, also you can feel it in your pants.

and for you guys who are against these intakes, i made a heat shield to go along with it.

vectra_soundz · 3-27-08, 18:52

hey man looks good, is the low end torque the same with the filter and shield? or is the gain at top end only?

Chris6 · 3-27-08, 20:47

i havn't tried with box because the paint hasn't cured yet(high temp) but you mostly feel it when you punch the gas. Definately more torque in mid-high. So above 3500 rpms im gonna say. Gas mileage very noticable increase. Ebay has the kit for 40 dollars. Very worth it.

**teddy** · 3-29-08, 23:09

did you remove the resonator box in between the vaf and tb.

i thought the general consensus was they add torque and removing it removes torque.

just a question?

Chris6 · 3-30-08, 20:18

yea i heard that too, i'll have to to look into that. However i kind of doubt that torque loss theory.

Norm Peterson · 4-17-08, 8:03

Resonance effects are difficult to understand just by looking at whatever it is. So I would not be so hasty to doubt that a loss of torque could occur. Been an engineer for way to long to jump to conclusions like that.

The idea is that resonance can help volumetric efficiency within certain rpm ranges, and that would show up as torque increases within those ranges over that in an otherwise identical engine that did not have the resonance feature. But it has to be carefully designed, because resonance can work against you at other rpms.

Norm

**teddy** · 4-18-08, 0:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Resonance effects are difficult to understand just by looking at whatever it is. So I would not be so hasty to doubt that a loss of torque could occur. Been an engineer for way to long to jump to conclusions like that.

The idea is that resonance can help volumetric efficiency within certain rpm ranges, and that would show up as torque increases within those ranges over that in an otherwise identical engine that did not have the resonance feature. But it has to be carefully designed, because resonance can work against you at other rpms.

Norm

Not sure if that was directed toward my comment, sorry if it wasn't. Mazda did carefully design it for the engine. Again though, i have nothing to back this up just what i have searched here for my personal intake when i had a mazda

**moebius** · 6-12-08, 1:26

Mazda says that the resonance chamber increases mid-range torque:

I'm inclined to believe them on this.

Note, we are talking about the number 2 resonance chamber...

And yes, the general concensus is that Mazda is correct, remove the resonance chamber, and you loose torque.

In theory, you might gain a little HP at the "top-end" by removing the resonance chamber, but overall it simply isn't worth the loss to remove it.

OF further note, the stock Air Intake is a true CAI... the intake you made Chris6, inspite of appearing to be a reasonable heat shield.. is still sucking air from the engine compartment.. into other words.. you made a Hot Air Intake out of a Cold Air Intake.

Run your car on 1/4 strip. Find out how fast you can go. Then put the stock intake and stock resonator back on, find out how much faster you go....

**Car-InsanE** · 6-15-08, 13:13

i like you intake
props for the heat shield

Chris6 · 6-15-08, 18:46

Thank you for finding the article in the workbook for me. It does seem to be true about the resonance effect, but I still don't understand how that works. Is there some article on the web that describes in more detail. I love physics and would love to learn something new. Thanks

**moebius** · 6-16-08, 12:14

Search for helmholtz resonators..

Most well designed intake manifolds add some sort of resonance affect for certain rpm ranges. The more advanced intakes, such as on the KLDE/KLZE have multiple paths which help. The F2 resonance chamber is fairly simple, and relatively effective.

Subaru uses them extensively for noise reduction.

some linkage:
Helmholtz Resonator - DiracDelta Science & Engineering Encyclopedia
Intake Manifold Tech: Runner Size Calculations - Team Integra
Outlaw Power - Intake System Technology
Soarer - The Intake Resonator
FLUID DYNAMIC STUDY OF INTAKE MANIFOLDS OF INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES IN PRESENCE OF ACOUSTIC RESONATORS
Thunder Products - Performance carburetor and clutching for snowmobiles, motorcycles and ATVs.
FTLRacing
Still Air Box Design for tuned engines
Intake Theory

The ideal situation would be to have a system which allows for rpm and load variation of the length of the intake manifold ports, variable volume intake manifold, and a variable sized helmholtz resonator...

BUT.. most people settle for just variable lenght intake runners, that's tough enough.
See: http://www.mx6.com/forums/fe-dohc/20...hidden-us.html (ITB NA FE3 Miata/MX5 thread hidden from us! ;-))

Chris6 · 6-27-08, 12:27

Thanks for spending the time to search for the Helmholtz Resonance effect. I got a better understanding, and I see it does add Torque. Only at certain RPM ranges. I Never knew about the intake manifold length. This opens up tuning to a whole new level and why they have racing intake manifolds....not just for better flow but for increased torque responses at certain ranges. Sweet. Thanks a lot

3-26-08, 19:16	#1 (permalink)
Chris6 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: , MA, USA Age: 18 iTrader: (1)	New Intake, Awesome I got a new intake for my 92 626, it looks good and sounds better, also you can feel it in your pants. and for you guys who are against these intakes, i made a heat shield to go along with it.

3-29-08, 23:09	#4 (permalink)
teddy Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: west bountiful, UT, USA Age: 22 iTrader: (0)	did you remove the resonator box in between the vaf and tb. i thought the general consensus was they add torque and removing it removes torque. just a question?
	MX6 2NR It may say Veteran now, but im still a noob at heart

6-12-08, 1:26	#8 (permalink)
moebius Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Vancouver, WA, USA Age: 30 iTrader: (2)	Mazda says that the resonance chamber increases mid-range torque: I'm inclined to believe them on this. Note, we are talking about the number 2 resonance chamber... And yes, the general concensus is that Mazda is correct, remove the resonance chamber, and you loose torque. In theory, you might gain a little HP at the "top-end" by removing the resonance chamber, but overall it simply isn't worth the loss to remove it. OF further note, the stock Air Intake is a true CAI... the intake you made Chris6, inspite of appearing to be a reasonable heat shield.. is still sucking air from the engine compartment.. into other words.. you made a Hot Air Intake out of a Cold Air Intake. Run your car on 1/4 strip. Find out how fast you can go. Then put the stock intake and stock resonator back on, find out how much faster you go....
	1990 626 GT 5 Door-- which "goes like a scalded weasel" says my father-in-law... on 1/2 throttle... Zoom Zoom...

6-15-08, 13:13	#9 (permalink)
Car-InsanE KLG4 POWA!! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Edmond, OK, USA iTrader: (2)	i like you intake props for the heat shield
	Don't PM me about the KLG4 swap, it got annoying MJ Auto

6-16-08, 12:14	#11 (permalink)
moebius Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Vancouver, WA, USA Age: 30 iTrader: (2)	Search for helmholtz resonators.. Most well designed intake manifolds add some sort of resonance affect for certain rpm ranges. The more advanced intakes, such as on the KLDE/KLZE have multiple paths which help. The F2 resonance chamber is fairly simple, and relatively effective. Subaru uses them extensively for noise reduction. some linkage: Helmholtz Resonator - DiracDelta Science & Engineering Encyclopedia Intake Manifold Tech: Runner Size Calculations - Team Integra Outlaw Power - Intake System Technology Soarer - The Intake Resonator FLUID DYNAMIC STUDY OF INTAKE MANIFOLDS OF INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES IN PRESENCE OF ACOUSTIC RESONATORS Thunder Products - Performance carburetor and clutching for snowmobiles, motorcycles and ATVs. FTLRacing Still Air Box Design for tuned engines Intake Theory The ideal situation would be to have a system which allows for rpm and load variation of the length of the intake manifold ports, variable volume intake manifold, and a variable sized helmholtz resonator... BUT.. most people settle for just variable lenght intake runners, that's tough enough. See: http://www.mx6.com/forums/fe-dohc/20...hidden-us.html (ITB NA FE3 Miata/MX5 thread hidden from us! ;-))
	1990 626 GT 5 Door-- which "goes like a scalded weasel" says my father-in-law... on 1/2 throttle... Zoom Zoom...

3-27-08, 18:52	#2 (permalink)
vectra_soundz Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Age: 23 iTrader: (0)	hey man looks good, is the low end torque the same with the filter and shield? or is the gain at top end only?

3-27-08, 20:47	#3 (permalink)
Chris6 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: , MA, USA Age: 18 iTrader: (1)	i havn't tried with box because the paint hasn't cured yet(high temp) but you mostly feel it when you punch the gas. Definately more torque in mid-high. So above 3500 rpms im gonna say. Gas mileage very noticable increase. Ebay has the kit for 40 dollars. Very worth it.

3-30-08, 20:18	#5 (permalink)
Chris6 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: , MA, USA Age: 18 iTrader: (1)	yea i heard that too, i'll have to to look into that. However i kind of doubt that torque loss theory.

4-17-08, 8:03	#6 (permalink)
Norm Peterson New Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Delaware Twp, NJ, USA Age: 60 iTrader: (0)	Resonance effects are difficult to understand just by looking at whatever it is. So I would not be so hasty to doubt that a loss of torque could occur. Been an engineer for way to long to jump to conclusions like that. The idea is that resonance can help volumetric efficiency within certain rpm ranges, and that would show up as torque increases within those ranges over that in an otherwise identical engine that did not have the resonance feature. But it has to be carefully designed, because resonance can work against you at other rpms. Norm

6-15-08, 18:46	#10 (permalink)
Chris6 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: , MA, USA Age: 18 iTrader: (1)	Thank you for finding the article in the workbook for me. It does seem to be true about the resonance effect, but I still don't understand how that works. Is there some article on the web that describes in more detail. I love physics and would love to learn something new. Thanks

6-27-08, 12:27	#12 (permalink)
Chris6 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: , MA, USA Age: 18 iTrader: (1)	Thanks for spending the time to search for the Helmholtz Resonance effect. I got a better understanding, and I see it does add Torque. Only at certain RPM ranges. I Never knew about the intake manifold length. This opens up tuning to a whole new level and why they have racing intake manifolds....not just for better flow but for increased torque responses at certain ranges. Sweet. Thanks a lot