Standalone management

[Turk]

I'm happy with my setup , I made good power, with a reliable setup using quality brand name trusted components, after all, how much does it cost to do a job twice or repair a blown engine....or the cost of towing it 2500km's home when it all craps itself out in the middle of nowhere and the nearest shop hasn't even heard of the XYZ parts you used - no more comments from me on this topic as I have nothing to prove[/quote]

My engine isnt blown and when it does (they all do) it will be 8psi on [shizzle]ty stock rods in a KL that does it not the ecu. I will pull my ping free pistons out myself as proof the tune was perfect . You are assuming that my "XYZ" part will fail. 6 months and no problems yet, I dont expect any for the normal life of the car and if there is I will eat my words.

I bet you could have made the same power you made just as reliable with a MS. Probably could have done the same with a Microtech or a Haltech as well.

It is a cheap car and with cheap owners, and if these new owners want to modify and they here they need to spend $2k on a ECU and tuning it can be discouraging and not happen at all. Why shouldnt they be informed of the option and benefits of a cheaper system that can do what the big brands can just as easily. You Cam and Rod have done it properly and have gone further then other mx6 owners have. But Fred(as a FE3 owner), Mr.Mx6, Contempo and myself are doing fine using the MS system. Two different options, one is just more affordable then the other.

If a 200% product only performs 10% better, I wouldnt waste my money there when that extra $3000 could be better spent on a quality Turbo and fuel setup that will give me a 300% return powerwise. Money does have a limit for everyone, why wouldnt you want your dollar to go further.

I chose MS because it was a well proven realible option and honestly mainly because of the price. Fred went his MS2 because it was the best system to suit his needs.

[fredio54]

Originally Posted by Turk

I bet you could have made the same power you made just as reliable with a MS. Probably could have done the same with a Microtech or a Haltech as well.

Exactly, you can get a good tune from virtually any ECU ms1 > motec if the guy behind the laptop has half a clue and some fundamental knowledge.

I chose MS2 not on price, not on performance, but because of an uncontrollable desire to do EVERYTHING myself :-) That way when I jump in it and drive it I have an ENORMOUS feeling of satisfaction. As it happens MS2 does kick arse. I will say it because it is true. Craigs system is a very good one from what I have read and seen, and there would be advantages over ms2/etc by using it. I agree with that, but what and where are those advantages and how much do you really care about it? MS has run briggs and straton and it has run 27 litre v12 Rolls Royce engines and everything in between, very few people have been unhappy. It has faults, I can list them all for you right now, but none of them matter if you do the install and tune right. 200hp / litre = ms2 ftw (regardless of price!!). If you want to control every accessory on the car, ms is not for you. most of them, sure, all, possibly not. MS2 has IO limits. MS1 has plenty of IO, but isn't all that accurate (still well good enough though).

You guys have no experience with MS. When you have properly set one up and tuned it. You will be singing a different tune!

Fred.

[fredio54]

I'd also like to add that I know 3 guys that daily drive MS units, 1 on ms2 and 2 on ms1. They have had some issues, but almost all of them have come down to their dodgy wiring etc. Mops has over a year with no issues at all on his 3 series bmw with ms2 since he fixed up his wiring. I can tell you, his old wiring was BAD, yet the car still ran fine :-)

Reliable as the day is long!

[Turk]

Originally Posted by fredio54

I'd also like to add that I know 3 guys that daily drive MS units, 1 on ms2 and 2 on ms1. They have had some issues, but almost all of them have come down to their dodgy wiring etc. Mops has over a year with no issues at all on his 3 series bmw with ms2 since he fixed up his wiring. I can tell you, his old wiring was BAD, yet the car still ran fine :-)

Reliable as the day is long!

Hey add another one, I daily drive my car. . Ive had no issues, not even some. not with the MS/tune anyway. Once I got the very very basics sorted, the basics that most people on any standalone ECU that have had any involvment in it should have already known.

[rodhog]

Originally Posted by AusMX6

-----------------------

Again my point - nothing wrong with being cheap just don't says it better *shrug*

-----------------------

That is the truth right there.

And my final thing on this as I don't have anything to prove.

You build full double brick house ground up. But you finish the roof off with Rusty old tin sheet. You could of at least used colourbond.

[fredio54]

Originally Posted by rodhog

That is the truth right there.

It isn't! Back up your BULLSHlT with numbers buddy.

Off the top of my head :

MS1 = 12x12 with movable bins
MS2 = 12x12 or 16x16 with movable bins
MS2 = 2/3us fuel resolution
MS2 base = 2/3us spark resolution
MS2 extra = 10us spark resolution
MS1 low res = 100us fuel resolution, no idea about spark
MS1 high res = better than ms1 low res fuel resolution, but not close to as good as ms2 fuel resolution.
MS2 = 30 IO pins
MS1 = 35 IO pins
MS1/MS2 = launch control, flat shift, boost control, etc etc etc etc etc.
MS1/MS2 = COP up to 6 cyilnders, and peak and hold injectors up to v8

LEMG3 - Specifications — Link Engine Management Systems - plug-in & wire-in aftermarket ECU's

Link = ignition 0.1 degree "control" is this resolution? not sure. but res <= control
Link = 10us fuel "control"
Link = about 40 IO pins (26 pin header??? (ms has 37))
Link = all the same features as ms and some more.
Link = 22x20 tables

etc.

The question then becomes better at what? Better at running an engine accurately? If that is the question, don't argue with me. MS2 = top notch.

If the question is support/features/blah blah blah, sure, maybe ms2 falls a bit short in some areas, but considering it is 1/3 - 1/20 the price you'd expect that...

Stop talking crap...

Fred.

[rodhog]

You keep point out how great it is on all them little points

How much cheaper as well

But you forget the main issue.

For a product to be so great and much cheaper. Which you think is great - good on ya.

Why is it that world wide- it's NOT A WORLD LEADER.

Why is it I don't see V8 Supercars using it then ?
They look at cutting costs- They don't get sponsorship dollars from the Main two providers- Motec or Autronic. They just use them.

In the lower end feilds. I don't see MS

You keep point out it's cheaper and easier.

In budget prospects. Like Improved prodcution. Cost is essential. I don't SEE MS.

In Tara Rallys I don't see MS

You point out All these lots are going to get as good or better with MS2 and save a bundle

but I don't see MS

I go to a Drift round - I don't SEE MS

where am I going to SEE MS ?

Where am I going to See MS Fred ?

Maybe Turks car ? But where else ?

[TX5_turbo88]

I should rename this thread to 'MEGASQUIRT:GOOD OR [shizzle]?' LOL

Let's call it a tie, and you both have a conflict of interest. because this can be argued forever.

I just hate to see my two best friends fighting like this LOL

[TX5_turbo88]

OR screw Haltech, MS, Wolf, micro, autronic,EMS.....and the winner is: the stock ECU!

[Redmx_tx5]

Lol! i would love to see more of a out come tho.

MS is trusted for THESE cars... if i boost, ill def go MS.. (although, i would love a bigger brand so more tuning shops will tune it!)

[fredio54]

Originally Posted by rodhog

my final thing on this as I don't have anything to prove.

FAIL, stick to your word Rod, or can your word be trusted as little as your EMS info?

Originally Posted by rodhog

Why is it that world wide- it's NOT A WORLD LEADER.
Why is it I don't see V8 Supercars using it then ?
They look at cutting costs- They don't get sponsorship dollars from the Main two providers- Motec or Autronic. They just use them.

I explained this, BS factor. They don't want to fcuk around with learning about how it works and making sure its all setup right. They just want it to work. I care, they don't. That simple son.

You keep point out it's cheaper and easier.

I have never said it is easier. Not once. I've said the opposite many times...

You said you wouldn't post again, stick with what you said, you have no idea what you are talking about (with regards this at the least). Don't pretend you do.

Let's call it a tie, and you both have a conflict of interest. because this can be argued forever.

Unless Rod is selling them, I don't think that is true at all. I have zero to gain by you using MS. I have zero to gain by you using FreeEMS if/when it works. B&G make cash from MS (i dont like them profitting like that) not me. FreeEMS will be, as the name implies, FREE :-) No cash for me. On rods side there ... unless he's selling them???

Originally Posted by Redmx_tx5

MS is trusted for THESE cars... if i boost, ill def go MS.. (although, i would love a bigger brand so more tuning shops will tune it!)

Tune it yourself man :-) It's not hard, and there is heaps of fast 24/7 support if you ask nicely in the right place :-)

Fred.

[fredio54]

Why don't you post this on board ?

Done.

Originally Posted by rodhog

For your information I don't sell anything with out down payment but no I don't sell EMS branded stuff.

I have connectiosn with all major Aftermarket car and Industrial PLC providers- that's Programe Logic Controllers.

My question is you think I'm selling. LOL

what about the advertising you get off your little websites ?

Notice I have no websites.

In fact only thing I did have was a phone that was called often by many workshop teams asking if I would come out on a day or weekend to help with testing.

So does that answer your question.

I'm only here to help people - if you havne't noticed having been around most of the 626s over time and mazda's in general that have sold in Australia.

It's what I do so ah why don't you forget I dont' like MS and move on and try and help people not cause issue over that fact that some of us like to pay for thing to be right and some of us actually not looking to see people fail.

because all your doing is causeing trouble.

Why don't you post this on board ?

Verbatim.

No, I didn't think you sold stuff, I posted that just above this. I wanted to confirm that you didn't. Hell, I even stated it in the PM. Was two sentences too much? How about using "than" instead of "then" also. That would be much nicer than seeing then used wrongly repeatedly.

For the record, there is NO advertising on my site. There will be NO advertising on my site in the future. Also, web site singular, not plural...

some of us like to pay for thing to be right and some of us actually not looking to see people fail.

My ms2 is hand built by me and to the highest quality. My MS2 is "right". I paid for my ms2. I have gone out of my way to get two guys up and running with MS now. Turk being one of them. I help others figure it out all the time. Ask eraezer what he thinks of my advice on EMS matters. I'm looking to see everyone succeed and not waste silly amounts of cash on flash systems that they don't need on their daily drivers. I want datalogging etc for the track. Most people don't. For most people, MS kicks arse! Period.

/Thread.

[stoker100]

ok, nobody has posted in another's defence the ability of the unit, since ill be going for a MOTEC M48 clubman soon ill post "some" specs (CBF showing them all):

- 2 year warrenty
- sequential injection (i believe MS has batch?)
- fuel accuracy to 10uS
- ignition accuracy to 0.25deg
- diagnostics (injectors/sensors o/c or s/c overboost etc)

[Turk]

Originally Posted by stoker100

- 2 year warrenty - I could buy a new ECU every 4-6 months for the life of that warranty and not have to worry . (referance to people who say yer I got 4 years warranty, and it only cost me 4k....?? Dealerships....)
- sequential injection (i believe MS has batch?) - Touche, .5 L better fuel economy
- fuel accuracy to 10uS - Fred?
- ignition accuracy to 0.25deg - Fred?
- diagnostics (injectors/sensors o/c or s/c overboost etc) Laptop tells me if things arent working, then again my stock ECU still does so as well(Shared sensors)

Not bagging on your purchase, just continueing the debate