FE3 HLA cleaning procedure for more lift and power :-) - Page 2

Jon · 9-9-04, 22:32

Damian: F2 HLA's are different from the HLA's in the FE-DOHC. The FE-DOHC shares the same HLA's as the KL engines.

**SixSick6** · 9-9-04, 22:55

Same concept, different HLA. I know this.

**fredio54** · 9-9-04, 23:19

Absolutely NOT the same concept!!!

Completely different!!!

Sick66 GET IT RIGHT or keep it shut.

NO rubber seals! only the parts I describe above. ALL STEEL.

dont hit them WITH wood. hit them ON wood, the inertia is enough to pop the circlip in and let the small pistons fly out.

i DO reckomend soaking them in petrol first, it makes it a little easier to get them apart(and less messy)

Sorry to get a little angry, but i dont like it when people who DONT know contradict those who do.

once again, if you are going to buy them, you may aswell give it a go first.

Fred.

**fredio54** · 9-9-04, 23:27

woops, got carried away and forgot the question.

I used petrol, oven cleaner, and water, and more oven cleaner and more water until nothing discoloured the cleaner. then rinsed well, and oiled up. if people are interested then i'll descibe in more detail how to fill with oil after my skiing trip.

Fred.

**SixSick6** · 9-9-04, 23:33

These are they no?:

**anarchyx34** · 9-9-04, 23:39

Basically that's what they look like.

**SixSick6** · 9-9-04, 23:43

That's EXACTLY what they look like because it's a picture of one. The KL HLA's run $14.00 a piece where as the F2's run $9.00 a piece, granted 24 of em'll cost you alot more...but well worth it when replaced properly.

**fredio54** · 9-10-04, 0:17

It all depends how much time you have and how much YOUR time is worth.

two lifters would cost me a days wages here in NZ at my current (CRAP) job.

thus i cleaned them.

if 16 lifters cost you 1 - 2 days wages, buy them.

if you are in NO hurry to get it back together, then i'm pretty sure that you'd rather spend your $240 on 1/4 of your disco spud :-)

you may be interested to see why they block up though, and why good oil (and regular changes) is/are a must.

Fred.

**SixSick6** · 9-10-04, 0:27

Exactly, which 75% of the population neglect to do. In this case, cleaning the HLA's might do you little or no good and you might spend 3 or 4 days looking at 5 or 6 junkyards trying to find HLA's that arent buggered from lack of maintenance.

It's been awhile since I've taken out 2G HLA's (about 3 years) so I hadnt remembered the actual look/makeup of them, however they are basically the same concept as the most other HLA's.

You can clean them all you want, but if they're tired, they're tired and cleaning them won't make a bit of difference.

**fredio54** · 9-10-04, 0:56

I've got news for you :

my motor still had its original oil from mazda (read tar) in the head there was 6 - 8 mm of carbon solid buildup on all nonmoving parts. all of my lifters were very squishy. all of them now hold a perfect seal, and will work silently for a long time to come. the middle sized piston on most of mine was COMPLETELY FULL OF CARBON with a little air and no oil.

I have never seen a 12v lifter, but i'm thinking that youve only seen the 16v lifters in pictures.

Cleaning KL/FE3 HLAs works. Period.

Believe who you like.

last post to this thread till i have pictures.

Fred.

**veltpak6** · 9-10-04, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredio54

I've got news for you :

my motor still had its original oil from mazda (read tar) in the head there was 6 - 8 mm of carbon solid buildup on all nonmoving parts.
Fred.

yeh yeh, I'v had a KL with black-gel-oil from Japan once. It was a sad sight. How could those Japanese people sleep at night knowing they start their car up every morning with 50k and ORIGINAL OIL!? For shame

**fredio54** · 9-10-04, 16:11

Here in NZ virtualy every car you see is a jap import. lots of quick cars. the first thing the yards do is change the oil, but you can still see the black stains looking through the topup hole. they (japs) dont care because they dont keep the cars long because of the strict registration/warrant of fitness laws over there. i have a friend who suffered bad cam damage on his SR20 because the squirters that lube it were blocked. and another friend who was topping up the oil on his rb20(d?)e and it overflowed out the top. they pulled the sump, and it was full of solid soot! my girlys levin ae111 with blacktop (i LOVE that engine) has 100k on it, but so dirty that when i flushed it to put synth in there were noticeable solids in the oil. note it had been changed on the yard 500kms ago. the engines are so well made that they seem to last 200 - 300k before we scrap them with rust even with this abuse if serviced properly after their arrival at 100k ish.kms in all instances.

Fred.

**anarchyx34** · 9-10-04, 21:01

Actually my motor is spotless inside, as well as my HLA's. Which is why I cant understand why they're all dead. Could the motor not running for a very long time allow the oil to come out of them? How do you fill the bastards up. I'd like to give it a try just to make sure.

**Dutch** · 9-11-04, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by anarchyx34

Basically that's what they look like.

this is what they look like.
and these 16 HLA's were all empty..after cleaning 12 came out great and only 4 needed replacing.
filled them by pushing the little inside-thingies while having them in bath of oil.

**fredio54** · 9-15-04, 1:51

I would suggest trying to see if they pump up, i dont necessarily agree that if they do they will perform properly(although they may). if you try this you will have to do it upside down, and then up the "in engine" way, and then upside down again. this is necessary to ensure that there are no bubbles inside. the reason i would say they may not work properly is that there is only so much pressure you can apply to them with your fingers, and that with 7k and a cam pushing on them that seal may prove not effective enough. my old stuffed ones hold a good AIR tight seal when clean. even if some do pump up the fact that some dont means that there is a high chance of there being dirt in the others, and you have NO guarantee that it wont dislodge and block the valve causing loss of seal and stiffness. if they were to pump up hard on diesel, then i would say that they were OK, but then there would be diesel inside :-( and still no guarantee! i got around the bubbles by assembling them prefilled, and quickly inverting the little pistons as i put them into the bigger ones. when clean there is no way that they would ever bleed dry without extreme pressure. inside the engine that would mean that the valves were open for a good while. so unless the engine was turned over to the 4? positions with the different valves open whilst in storage i would suggest dirty inner-lifter valves.

also if when you try to fill them up with oil, the inner part becomes hard before the main piece becomes full then you are assembling your engine with air filled lifters.

do you still have the 4 that were replaced? if so do me a favour and rip one open, observe and photograph it, clean it, more photos, reassemble.

and go "why did i waste my cash?"

i have to dissassemble an entire head to get to my non-cleaned ones, so if you still have them then please lend a hand.

Fred

9-9-04, 23:27	#19 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	Cleaning them. woops, got carried away and forgot the question. I used petrol, oven cleaner, and water, and more oven cleaner and more water until nothing discoloured the cleaner. then rinsed well, and oiled up. if people are interested then i'll descibe in more detail how to fill with oil after my skiing trip. Fred.

9-9-04, 23:39	#21 (permalink)
anarchyx34 Experiment 626 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Staten Island, NY Age: 31 iTrader: (0)	Basically that's what they look like.
	Anarchyx '98 VW Jetta K2- Daily driver. '94 Miata C-package- Tein S-tech, Tokico Illumina, FCM bump stops & 15" OZ Superleggera, MSPNP

9-10-04, 21:01	#28 (permalink)
anarchyx34 Experiment 626 Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Staten Island, NY Age: 31 iTrader: (0)	Actually my motor is spotless inside, as well as my HLA's. Which is why I cant understand why they're all dead. Could the motor not running for a very long time allow the oil to come out of them? How do you fill the bastards up. I'd like to give it a try just to make sure.
	Anarchyx '98 VW Jetta K2- Daily driver. '94 Miata C-package- Tein S-tech, Tokico Illumina, FCM bump stops & 15" OZ Superleggera, MSPNP

9-9-04, 22:32	#16 (permalink)
Jon Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Redmond, WA, USA iTrader: (0)	Damian: F2 HLA's are different from the HLA's in the FE-DOHC. The FE-DOHC shares the same HLA's as the KL engines.

9-9-04, 22:55	#17 (permalink)
SixSick6 Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego, CA, USA Age: 32 iTrader: (2)	Same concept, different HLA. I know this.

9-9-04, 23:19	#18 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	Absolutely NOT the same concept!!! Completely different!!! Sick66 GET IT RIGHT or keep it shut. NO rubber seals! only the parts I describe above. ALL STEEL. dont hit them WITH wood. hit them ON wood, the inertia is enough to pop the circlip in and let the small pistons fly out. i DO reckomend soaking them in petrol first, it makes it a little easier to get them apart(and less messy) Sorry to get a little angry, but i dont like it when people who DONT know contradict those who do. once again, if you are going to buy them, you may aswell give it a go first. Fred.

9-9-04, 23:33	#20 (permalink)
SixSick6 Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego, CA, USA Age: 32 iTrader: (2)	These are they no?:

9-9-04, 23:43	#22 (permalink)
SixSick6 Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego, CA, USA Age: 32 iTrader: (2)	That's EXACTLY what they look like because it's a picture of one. The KL HLA's run $14.00 a piece where as the F2's run $9.00 a piece, granted 24 of em'll cost you alot more...but well worth it when replaced properly.

9-10-04, 0:17	#23 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	It all depends how much time you have and how much YOUR time is worth. two lifters would cost me a days wages here in NZ at my current (CRAP) job. thus i cleaned them. if 16 lifters cost you 1 - 2 days wages, buy them. if you are in NO hurry to get it back together, then i'm pretty sure that you'd rather spend your $240 on 1/4 of your disco spud :-) you may be interested to see why they block up though, and why good oil (and regular changes) is/are a must. Fred.

9-10-04, 0:27	#24 (permalink)
SixSick6 Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Diego, CA, USA Age: 32 iTrader: (2)	Exactly, which 75% of the population neglect to do. In this case, cleaning the HLA's might do you little or no good and you might spend 3 or 4 days looking at 5 or 6 junkyards trying to find HLA's that arent buggered from lack of maintenance. It's been awhile since I've taken out 2G HLA's (about 3 years) so I hadnt remembered the actual look/makeup of them, however they are basically the same concept as the most other HLA's. You can clean them all you want, but if they're tired, they're tired and cleaning them won't make a bit of difference.

9-10-04, 0:56	#25 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	I've got news for you : my motor still had its original oil from mazda (read tar) in the head there was 6 - 8 mm of carbon solid buildup on all nonmoving parts. all of my lifters were very squishy. all of them now hold a perfect seal, and will work silently for a long time to come. the middle sized piston on most of mine was COMPLETELY FULL OF CARBON with a little air and no oil. I have never seen a 12v lifter, but i'm thinking that youve only seen the 16v lifters in pictures. Cleaning KL/FE3 HLAs works. Period. Believe who you like. last post to this thread till i have pictures. Fred.

9-10-04, 16:11	#27 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	Here in NZ virtualy every car you see is a jap import. lots of quick cars. the first thing the yards do is change the oil, but you can still see the black stains looking through the topup hole. they (japs) dont care because they dont keep the cars long because of the strict registration/warrant of fitness laws over there. i have a friend who suffered bad cam damage on his SR20 because the squirters that lube it were blocked. and another friend who was topping up the oil on his rb20(d?)e and it overflowed out the top. they pulled the sump, and it was full of solid soot! my girlys levin ae111 with blacktop (i LOVE that engine) has 100k on it, but so dirty that when i flushed it to put synth in there were noticeable solids in the oil. note it had been changed on the yard 500kms ago. the engines are so well made that they seem to last 200 - 300k before we scrap them with rust even with this abuse if serviced properly after their arrival at 100k ish.kms in all instances. Fred.

9-15-04, 1:51	#30 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	I would suggest trying to see if they pump up, i dont necessarily agree that if they do they will perform properly(although they may). if you try this you will have to do it upside down, and then up the "in engine" way, and then upside down again. this is necessary to ensure that there are no bubbles inside. the reason i would say they may not work properly is that there is only so much pressure you can apply to them with your fingers, and that with 7k and a cam pushing on them that seal may prove not effective enough. my old stuffed ones hold a good AIR tight seal when clean. even if some do pump up the fact that some dont means that there is a high chance of there being dirt in the others, and you have NO guarantee that it wont dislodge and block the valve causing loss of seal and stiffness. if they were to pump up hard on diesel, then i would say that they were OK, but then there would be diesel inside :-( and still no guarantee! i got around the bubbles by assembling them prefilled, and quickly inverting the little pistons as i put them into the bigger ones. when clean there is no way that they would ever bleed dry without extreme pressure. inside the engine that would mean that the valves were open for a good while. so unless the engine was turned over to the 4? positions with the different valves open whilst in storage i would suggest dirty inner-lifter valves. also if when you try to fill them up with oil, the inner part becomes hard before the main piece becomes full then you are assembling your engine with air filled lifters. do you still have the 4 that were replaced? if so do me a favour and rip one open, observe and photograph it, clean it, more photos, reassemble. and go "why did i waste my cash?" i have to dissassemble an entire head to get to my non-cleaned ones, so if you still have them then please lend a hand. Fred