FE3 HLA cleaning procedure for more lift and power :-) - Page 3

**fredio54** · 5-25-05, 16:33

A set of pics showing the Lifter Disassembled.

A Brand New HLA for Mazda FE-DOHC (AKA FE3) or K series V6. Top view.

The lifter from below with the piston removed. You can see in this shot the recess that allows the oil to get from the main part of the lifter into the pistons in the middle. You can also see the seating mark of the innermost piston on the main lifter body.

The middle piston (the one you can see without pulling it to bits) wuith its circlip, and showing the groove that it runs in.

The middle piston with its circlip from above. You can see the step at the bottom that centres the spring, and a slight mark where the spring has been seating.

Another shot showing the step and mark more clearly.

The innermost piston and the spring that goes between it and the middle one from the side. You can just see the ball valve and the tiny spring through the pressed in retainer thing.

The innermost piston from the top. You can clearly see the ball valve here.

The middle piston assembly in line and ready to slide together.

The assembled piston unit.

A rough "paint" cross-sectional drawing of one of these little beasts.

On my worst engine the part of the innermost piston where the ball is visible was completely filled with carbon. On my better one, this was just dirty, but not full at all. The tiny ball valve is held in place by a VERY light spring pressure, and the oil pressure inside generated by pushing down on the valvehead and spring pressure. If these are dirty, and a piece of carbon gets under the ball between it and its seat, it will not hold pressure, and your engine WILL tick....

It is not possible to ensure that the lifter is properly primed with oil without taking it to pieces. This is the case simply because of the orientation of the holes in various parts relative to one another.

To get them apart you simply wrap them with a rag, and grip them around the side tightly with a multi grip(adjustable wrench), and bang them down firmly onto a piece of wood the same way up as in the engine. The middle piston assembly will just push the circlip out of the way and pop out. If they are stubborn, they will be at the dirtier end of the spectrum...

I believe that the reason that they clog up so badly is that the oil is close to stagnant inside the lifter, with only say 15% escaping on full compression of the middle piston(which shouldnt happen often when in good shape. the lifter is touching the valve stem, and gets hot, when mineral oils get hot they deposit their tar and crap. once there are solids inside it, they have little hope of getting out. If synthetic were used, then they may never have failed. for what its worth, mine hold air pressure for extended periods when dead clean and dry(no oil to seal it) thus the tolerances on even worn units is tight enough to justify what i have said.

I went looking to find out what was in these, because I read in the shop manual that if they are soft they should be thrown out, and replaced, i went to mazda and asked howmuch, NZ$35 each!!! there are 16 in my engine, and 24 in you poor V6 guys heads...

I have a crap job, with low pay (3 hours per lifter), and as such it was economical to clean them, proper cleaning takes time, and if you are well paid, you should just buy them, but on a low budget, it is worth the effort, particularly if the engine isn't tooooo bad inside.

Cleaning them :

Initialy i soaked them in petrol(gas) to remove the oil, after that i sprayed them with oven cleaner again and again, rinsing, and only stopping when the white cleaner didnt get discoloured by carbon deposits i couldnt see. It pays to have a bent brush to clean up under the rim in the main lifter body, quite a bit of crap can be found in there.

Re-assembly :

start by putting the circlip back on, ensure it isn't bent much or at all, or it will not slide in well, or not stop it coming back out.

when refilling them, lay the main bit upside down, and fill it with oil. tilt it such that the hole in the side is up on about a 30deg angle, and overfill till no bubbles come out through it. lay it back down again, and fill up the middle piston, drop in the spring, lower the little piston in the correct way up. if you put it in upside down, its going to be difficult to get it out (dont ask :-). put oil down into the little piston, and push down gently on the ball with a jewlers screwdriver or similar small thing to bleed the air out, and then allow it to suck more oil in from above. have the main lifter body overfilled with oil, lower the piston assembly into the pool and invert it, sliding it into the main body. you are done. the lifter should be rock hard now, test this by squeezing the @#$% out of it. one of mine leaked, so i took it back apart, re cleaned it, reassembled, and then it was ok.

good luck.

**STW** · 3-13-06, 20:10

Could an hour in ultrasonic cleaner do the trick without disassembly?

(I would use ultrasonic in any case though)

**fredio54** · 3-15-06, 14:44

dont know, if they are bad, then no, because it is literally solid dry gunk, if not bad maybe, but without pulling em down, the crap the sound loosens will still be stuck inside with no way of escaping, and probably just sediment out again. fedohc owners keep your oil CLEAN :-)

neilh2o · 7-19-06, 13:14

ive found that if you change your motor oil frequently enough every 2-3000 miles that you shouldnt have lifter problems and the easily distinguishable tapping noise...now on 93 to 5/96 2.0 motors there is a FORD Probe tsb that tells how to fix the lifter noise ... the oil pump pressure relief valve plunger is too short..you can replace the spring and the plunger or replace the complete oil pump ..that should end the lifter noise if your oil is clean

**fredio54** · 7-19-06, 14:28

mate, with all due respect, if there is solid carbon build up in the little valve, no amount of oil changes and clean oil and new oil pumps and different pressure relief springs will help. it isnt just mazda engines that do this, but they are known for it. (along with toyota the vw of the 90's?)

fred.

**fetelstarTX5** · 7-19-06, 19:28

Just thought id post up an alternate way of getting the HLA's apart

Firstly soak the HLA's in petroleum based engine degreaser for about 5-10mins. Pump the little pintle (or the bit that sticks out, whatever its called) so that the degreaser works its way into the HLA. Now take the HLA to a soft vice (a vice with wooden jaws, although a steel vice and a rag would be fine) and lock it in upside down. Grip the bit that sticks out and gently pull up and wiggle with some pliers. If it gets stuck 1/2 way out, tap it back down, wiggle it, and try again. They usually come apart in 1 or 2 goes.

SpikeDerailed · 11-2-06, 0:46

I dont know how much this will help...but I figured I would throw it out there. It was a issued TSB listed on alldatapro for vehicle's that have HLA style lifters. Ignore the 1993 Mazda MX6 V6 part, thats just the vechile I used for alldata to pull up the TSB. If there are any issues with the pictures not showing up let me know.

1993 Mazda MX-6 V6-2496cc 2.5L DOHC

Vehicle Level

Engine, Cooling and Exhaust

Engine

Lifter

Technical Service Bulletins

All Technical Service Bulletins

HLA - Noise After Long Storage

HLA - Noise After Long Storage Notes Bulletin No.: 005/95
Issued: 3/28/95
Revised: Category
B Applicable Model/s:
All HLA Models Subject:
HLA NOISE AFTER LONG STORAGE APPLICABLE MODELS/VINS
A primary cause of HLA noise is the result of oil draining back to the crankcase during long periods of storage. Category B of the applicable workshop manual contains diagnostic information to determine if the HLA is normal or requires replacement. Instructions in the manual will be revised in the 1996 manual.
Follow this procedure to determine if the HLA requires replacement.
NOTE: Service Managers should make a reference to this bulletin in the applicable workshop manuals. DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURE
1. Check engine oil and replenish if necessary. NOTE: If the oil is dirty or a service interval has been missed, replace the oil. Inform the customer of the need to change oil and that this is not covered under the normal vehicle warranty.
2. Run the engine to normal operating temperature.
3. Increase the idle to 2,000 - 3,000rpm and maintain this speed until HLA noise stops or 20 minutes. NOTE: Do not exceed 20 minutes. Currently the workshop manual states 10 minutes, this will be revised in the 1996 workshop manual. Watch the engine temperature during this operation. If the temperature exceeds normal range, reduce the engine speed to idle until the temperature returns to normal.
If the above method does not eliminate the HLA noise, the following may be the cause of the noise:
a) Low oil pressure due to clogged oil pump strainer
b) Oil pump internal problems
c) Faulty HLA Refer to the workshop manual for additional troubleshooting information for items "a" and "b" above.
If the HLA is suspected as the cause of the noise item "c", identify the faulty HLA and replace only those that require replacement.

Use the method illustrated to determine which HLA requires replacement.

**fredio54** · 1-17-07, 20:30

just something i found quite amusing :-)

http://www.amazd.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8086

**fredio54** · 2-9-07, 6:18

So, 2.5 years ago, i cleaned my 16 hlas from my persona motor. yesterday and today i put them in! i torqued down the cam bearing caps, and low and behold, there is no compression to be had. why you might ask, and i will answer, because the hlas are overfilled. they are holding all the valves open by about 4mm. after 24hrs, they still arent sealing properly, but they are sealing.

moral of the story, get them clean, verify that they dont leak, then disassemble and empty of oil. leave just enough in to stop it from being grossly to small, and let the engine fill them when you start cranking and running. otherwise you will have to wait a few days to start the engine like me :-)

fred.

**fe3t b2200** · 2-10-07, 7:45

just reassemble them by pushing a peice of welding wire in the hole to lift the ball off the seat as tou push the piston home into the plunger has the same effect. now who did master the cleaning of the lifters? makes you think aye!

**fredio54** · 2-10-07, 17:31

edited? why? welding wire or anything else... yes, its simple. i just didnt consider how long it might take to reseat properly. that is all. the engine runs, and runs smoothly. but, it makes no power, and heats up the exhaust mani quickly. this was expected. hopefully they will seat soon enough. or i will pull the cams, and seat them myself. not a big job, not a big deal, but i'll just bide my time anyway.

fred.

**fredio54** · 3-3-07, 5:22

ok, the answer to the over inflated HLAs is, rotate the engine 180 degrees per day until all cylinders have had there valves hanging open over night...
btw, my clogged full lifters are doing nice service right now and running perfectly. same ones i cleaned what, 2 years ago! perfect operation. from a ticking nightmare. enjoy! :-)

**Casejunkie** · 6-6-07, 9:00

I have tested my HLA's today and I have 5 squishy HLA's. 4 of them were sitting at cilinder 4 the other was sitting at the exhaustside of cilinder 2.

I will open them tomorrow to take a look at it for cleaning them. Thanks for the great write-up

**fredio54** · 6-8-07, 10:30

mate, my pleasure.

ye1-low · 7-9-07, 0:10

Fred, thanks for your informative write-up. This reply is a bit dated but I am experiencing the exact same "no-compression" problem you did. I did a timing job and replaced my HLA's with totally brand new ones. I kept them in a tub of oil and squatted them until no air bubbles came out of them. I am assuming either I overfilled them or I was seeing things when I lined up my timing marks. What are your thoughts? It's a 1995 Mazda Millenia 2.5L KL engine.

5-25-05, 16:33	#31 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	Lifter cleaning revisited. A set of pics showing the Lifter Disassembled. A Brand New HLA for Mazda FE-DOHC (AKA FE3) or K series V6. Top view. The lifter from below with the piston removed. You can see in this shot the recess that allows the oil to get from the main part of the lifter into the pistons in the middle. You can also see the seating mark of the innermost piston on the main lifter body. The middle piston (the one you can see without pulling it to bits) wuith its circlip, and showing the groove that it runs in. The middle piston with its circlip from above. You can see the step at the bottom that centres the spring, and a slight mark where the spring has been seating. Another shot showing the step and mark more clearly. The innermost piston and the spring that goes between it and the middle one from the side. You can just see the ball valve and the tiny spring through the pressed in retainer thing. The innermost piston from the top. You can clearly see the ball valve here. The middle piston assembly in line and ready to slide together. The assembled piston unit. A rough "paint" cross-sectional drawing of one of these little beasts. On my worst engine the part of the innermost piston where the ball is visible was completely filled with carbon. On my better one, this was just dirty, but not full at all. The tiny ball valve is held in place by a VERY light spring pressure, and the oil pressure inside generated by pushing down on the valvehead and spring pressure. If these are dirty, and a piece of carbon gets under the ball between it and its seat, it will not hold pressure, and your engine WILL tick.... It is not possible to ensure that the lifter is properly primed with oil without taking it to pieces. This is the case simply because of the orientation of the holes in various parts relative to one another. To get them apart you simply wrap them with a rag, and grip them around the side tightly with a multi grip(adjustable wrench), and bang them down firmly onto a piece of wood the same way up as in the engine. The middle piston assembly will just push the circlip out of the way and pop out. If they are stubborn, they will be at the dirtier end of the spectrum... I believe that the reason that they clog up so badly is that the oil is close to stagnant inside the lifter, with only say 15% escaping on full compression of the middle piston(which shouldnt happen often when in good shape. the lifter is touching the valve stem, and gets hot, when mineral oils get hot they deposit their tar and crap. once there are solids inside it, they have little hope of getting out. If synthetic were used, then they may never have failed. for what its worth, mine hold air pressure for extended periods when dead clean and dry(no oil to seal it) thus the tolerances on even worn units is tight enough to justify what i have said. I went looking to find out what was in these, because I read in the shop manual that if they are soft they should be thrown out, and replaced, i went to mazda and asked howmuch, NZ$35 each!!! there are 16 in my engine, and 24 in you poor V6 guys heads... I have a crap job, with low pay (3 hours per lifter), and as such it was economical to clean them, proper cleaning takes time, and if you are well paid, you should just buy them, but on a low budget, it is worth the effort, particularly if the engine isn't tooooo bad inside. Cleaning them : Initialy i soaked them in petrol(gas) to remove the oil, after that i sprayed them with oven cleaner again and again, rinsing, and only stopping when the white cleaner didnt get discoloured by carbon deposits i couldnt see. It pays to have a bent brush to clean up under the rim in the main lifter body, quite a bit of crap can be found in there. Re-assembly : start by putting the circlip back on, ensure it isn't bent much or at all, or it will not slide in well, or not stop it coming back out. when refilling them, lay the main bit upside down, and fill it with oil. tilt it such that the hole in the side is up on about a 30deg angle, and overfill till no bubbles come out through it. lay it back down again, and fill up the middle piston, drop in the spring, lower the little piston in the correct way up. if you put it in upside down, its going to be difficult to get it out (dont ask :-). put oil down into the little piston, and push down gently on the ball with a jewlers screwdriver or similar small thing to bleed the air out, and then allow it to suck more oil in from above. have the main lifter body overfilled with oil, lower the piston assembly into the pool and invert it, sliding it into the main body. you are done. the lifter should be rock hard now, test this by squeezing the @#$% out of it. one of mine leaked, so i took it back apart, re cleaned it, reassembled, and then it was ok. good luck.

3-13-06, 20:10	#32 (permalink)
STW Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Turku, Finland Age: 32 iTrader: (0)	Could an hour in ultrasonic cleaner do the trick without disassembly? (I would use ultrasonic in any case though) Last edited by STW : 3-13-06 at 20:18.

3-15-06, 14:44	#33 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	dont know, if they are bad, then no, because it is literally solid dry gunk, if not bad maybe, but without pulling em down, the crap the sound loosens will still be stuck inside with no way of escaping, and probably just sediment out again. fedohc owners keep your oil CLEAN :-)
	DIYEFI.org - TRUE DIY engine management Mazda FE3/FE-DOHC Master Index Thread (work in progress) Mazda truck with FE-DOHC/FE3 "BIG like your house" Holset Turbo drinking 2.2 litres of fuel per minute ~= 385hp crank RIP SleepCounter :-( we will miss you! - RIP fredio54 :-( will we miss you?

7-19-06, 13:14	#34 (permalink)
neilh2o Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: iTrader: (0)	ive found that if you change your motor oil frequently enough every 2-3000 miles that you shouldnt have lifter problems and the easily distinguishable tapping noise...now on 93 to 5/96 2.0 motors there is a FORD Probe tsb that tells how to fix the lifter noise ... the oil pump pressure relief valve plunger is too short..you can replace the spring and the plunger or replace the complete oil pump ..that should end the lifter noise if your oil is clean
neilh2o Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: iTrader: (0)

7-19-06, 14:28	#35 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	mate, with all due respect, if there is solid carbon build up in the little valve, no amount of oil changes and clean oil and new oil pumps and different pressure relief springs will help. it isnt just mazda engines that do this, but they are known for it. (along with toyota the vw of the 90's?) fred.
	DIYEFI.org - TRUE DIY engine management Mazda FE3/FE-DOHC Master Index Thread (work in progress) Mazda truck with FE-DOHC/FE3 "BIG like your house" Holset Turbo drinking 2.2 litres of fuel per minute ~= 385hp crank RIP SleepCounter :-( we will miss you! - RIP fredio54 :-( will we miss you?

7-19-06, 19:28	#36 (permalink)
fetelstarTX5 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SA, Australia iTrader: (0)	Just thought id post up an alternate way of getting the HLA's apart Firstly soak the HLA's in petroleum based engine degreaser for about 5-10mins. Pump the little pintle (or the bit that sticks out, whatever its called) so that the degreaser works its way into the HLA. Now take the HLA to a soft vice (a vice with wooden jaws, although a steel vice and a rag would be fine) and lock it in upside down. Grip the bit that sticks out and gently pull up and wiggle with some pliers. If it gets stuck 1/2 way out, tap it back down, wiggle it, and try again. They usually come apart in 1 or 2 goes.

11-2-06, 0:46	#37 (permalink)
SpikeDerailed Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC, USA Age: 23 iTrader: (0)	I dont know how much this will help...but I figured I would throw it out there. It was a issued TSB listed on alldatapro for vehicle's that have HLA style lifters. Ignore the 1993 Mazda MX6 V6 part, thats just the vechile I used for alldata to pull up the TSB. If there are any issues with the pictures not showing up let me know. 1993 Mazda MX-6 V6-2496cc 2.5L DOHC Vehicle Level Engine, Cooling and Exhaust Engine Lifter Technical Service Bulletins All Technical Service Bulletins HLA - Noise After Long Storage HLA - Noise After Long Storage Notes Bulletin No.: 005/95 Issued: 3/28/95 Revised: Category B Applicable Model/s: All HLA Models Subject: HLA NOISE AFTER LONG STORAGE APPLICABLE MODELS/VINS A primary cause of HLA noise is the result of oil draining back to the crankcase during long periods of storage. Category B of the applicable workshop manual contains diagnostic information to determine if the HLA is normal or requires replacement. Instructions in the manual will be revised in the 1996 manual. Follow this procedure to determine if the HLA requires replacement. NOTE: Service Managers should make a reference to this bulletin in the applicable workshop manuals. DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURE 1. Check engine oil and replenish if necessary. NOTE: If the oil is dirty or a service interval has been missed, replace the oil. Inform the customer of the need to change oil and that this is not covered under the normal vehicle warranty. 2. Run the engine to normal operating temperature. 3. Increase the idle to 2,000 - 3,000rpm and maintain this speed until HLA noise stops or 20 minutes. NOTE: Do not exceed 20 minutes. Currently the workshop manual states 10 minutes, this will be revised in the 1996 workshop manual. Watch the engine temperature during this operation. If the temperature exceeds normal range, reduce the engine speed to idle until the temperature returns to normal. If the above method does not eliminate the HLA noise, the following may be the cause of the noise: a) Low oil pressure due to clogged oil pump strainer b) Oil pump internal problems c) Faulty HLA Refer to the workshop manual for additional troubleshooting information for items "a" and "b" above. If the HLA is suspected as the cause of the noise item "c", identify the faulty HLA and replace only those that require replacement. Use the method illustrated to determine which HLA requires replacement.

1-17-07, 20:30	#38 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	just something i found quite amusing :-) http://www.amazd.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8086
	DIYEFI.org - TRUE DIY engine management Mazda FE3/FE-DOHC Master Index Thread (work in progress) Mazda truck with FE-DOHC/FE3 "BIG like your house" Holset Turbo drinking 2.2 litres of fuel per minute ~= 385hp crank RIP SleepCounter :-( we will miss you! - RIP fredio54 :-( will we miss you?

2-9-07, 6:18	#39 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	So, 2.5 years ago, i cleaned my 16 hlas from my persona motor. yesterday and today i put them in! i torqued down the cam bearing caps, and low and behold, there is no compression to be had. why you might ask, and i will answer, because the hlas are overfilled. they are holding all the valves open by about 4mm. after 24hrs, they still arent sealing properly, but they are sealing. moral of the story, get them clean, verify that they dont leak, then disassemble and empty of oil. leave just enough in to stop it from being grossly to small, and let the engine fill them when you start cranking and running. otherwise you will have to wait a few days to start the engine like me :-) fred.
	DIYEFI.org - TRUE DIY engine management Mazda FE3/FE-DOHC Master Index Thread (work in progress) Mazda truck with FE-DOHC/FE3 "BIG like your house" Holset Turbo drinking 2.2 litres of fuel per minute ~= 385hp crank RIP SleepCounter :-( we will miss you! - RIP fredio54 :-( will we miss you?

2-10-07, 7:45	#40 (permalink)
fe3t b2200 Join Date: May 2006 Location: palmy north, new zealand Age: 25 iTrader: (0)	just reassemble them by pushing a peice of welding wire in the hole to lift the ball off the seat as tou push the piston home into the plunger has the same effect. now who did master the cleaning of the lifters? makes you think aye! Last edited by fe3t b2200 : 2-10-07 at 9:12.

2-10-07, 17:31	#41 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	edited? why? welding wire or anything else... yes, its simple. i just didnt consider how long it might take to reseat properly. that is all. the engine runs, and runs smoothly. but, it makes no power, and heats up the exhaust mani quickly. this was expected. hopefully they will seat soon enough. or i will pull the cams, and seat them myself. not a big job, not a big deal, but i'll just bide my time anyway. fred.
	DIYEFI.org - TRUE DIY engine management Mazda FE3/FE-DOHC Master Index Thread (work in progress) Mazda truck with FE-DOHC/FE3 "BIG like your house" Holset Turbo drinking 2.2 litres of fuel per minute ~= 385hp crank RIP SleepCounter :-( we will miss you! - RIP fredio54 :-( will we miss you?

3-3-07, 5:22	#42 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	ok, the answer to the over inflated HLAs is, rotate the engine 180 degrees per day until all cylinders have had there valves hanging open over night... btw, my clogged full lifters are doing nice service right now and running perfectly. same ones i cleaned what, 2 years ago! perfect operation. from a ticking nightmare. enjoy! :-)
	DIYEFI.org - TRUE DIY engine management Mazda FE3/FE-DOHC Master Index Thread (work in progress) Mazda truck with FE-DOHC/FE3 "BIG like your house" Holset Turbo drinking 2.2 litres of fuel per minute ~= 385hp crank RIP SleepCounter :-( we will miss you! - RIP fredio54 :-( will we miss you?

6-6-07, 9:00	#43 (permalink)
Casejunkie Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bavel, The Netherlands Age: 23 iTrader: (1)	I have tested my HLA's today and I have 5 squishy HLA's. 4 of them were sitting at cilinder 4 the other was sitting at the exhaustside of cilinder 2. I will open them tomorrow to take a look at it for cleaning them. Thanks for the great write-up

6-8-07, 10:30	#44 (permalink)
fredio54 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand iTrader: (1)	mate, my pleasure.
	DIYEFI.org - TRUE DIY engine management Mazda FE3/FE-DOHC Master Index Thread (work in progress) Mazda truck with FE-DOHC/FE3 "BIG like your house" Holset Turbo drinking 2.2 litres of fuel per minute ~= 385hp crank RIP SleepCounter :-( we will miss you! - RIP fredio54 :-( will we miss you?

7-9-07, 0:10	#45 (permalink)
ye1-low New Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: iTrader: (0)	Fred, thanks for your informative write-up. This reply is a bit dated but I am experiencing the exact same "no-compression" problem you did. I did a timing job and replaced my HLA's with totally brand new ones. I kept them in a tub of oil and squatted them until no air bubbles came out of them. I am assuming either I overfilled them or I was seeing things when I lined up my timing marks. What are your thoughts? It's a 1995 Mazda Millenia 2.5L KL engine.