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FE3 HLA cleaning procedure for more lift and power :-)

41K views 87 replies 23 participants last post by  jesiotrot 
#1 · (Edited)
EDIT : ** PLEASE NOTE THAT OVERFILLING THEM AS I DID IS A BAD IDEA. SEVERAL PEOPLE HAVE SUFFERED "NOT STARTING" BECAUSE OF THIS NOW, SO I'VE PUT THIS HERE FOR FUTURE CLEANERS. READ THE WHOLE THREAD TO THE END FIRST. **

When i got my FE3 i was curious about what lurked inside these HLAs, so hammer in hand i went off to our local self help parts yard, and promptly set about abbusing a KL v6 till i extracted a HLA. i thought that because it is made from very hard steel it might shatter when i hit it hard with the hammer, i thought wrong, but after about 10 hits i noticed something rolling away : it had come apart.

with hardly a scratch from all the abuse either!

they consist of 3 pistonic parts two visible, and one inside the smaller visible one, one small circlip to keep the small pistons in, two springs one to push the two smaller pistons apart, and a tiny one to hold the final part, a small steel ball against its seat. the manual says if squishy bin it. i say if squishy dissassemble it clean it and fill it with oil.

HERES HOW :

wrap the side of one with rag or cardboard,grip it on its sides with a pair of multi grips or vise grips, and bring the bottom of it down onto some hardish wood with some force, you are doing it right if it leaves circular marks in the wood. between one and 5 blows the guts of it will spill out, and you will see what i mean. clean with oven spray, or pure lifter cleaner, or whatever else you like, and reassemble carefully full of good oil.

the reason they go squishy is that carbon sludge partially blocks the little valve, and holds it open thus allowing the oil to come and go. the design of the valve is to let oil in ONLY thus feeling hard to touch. with these working, youll pick up 3-4mm of lift from 9.? and eliminate noise from them.

the cleaning takes a long time, but should be worth it. these things are US$15 each here in NZ. thats a lot of cash to replace them all.

mine are all perfect now, and full of series 2000 amsoil. i beleive that the reason the gum up so badly is that the end of the valve is hot and in direct contact with the small piston, NO (or very little) oil flow happens here, and the oil if mineral just burns up. once clean, synthetic is the way to go.(synthetic is always the way to go unless its leaking or burning it)

any comments welcome.

Fred.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
pic of HLA

Heres a very rough diagram of a FE3 HLA

Thanks to FE3T for hosting the image. see fourth post for it :)

things to note :

1. the red area has such a tight clearance that with no oil at all i.e. washed clean with gas, it holds an air-tight seal!! (the ball holds this seal too)

2. the green region is where the VERY small spring resides, and also where the oil flows through past the small (gray) ball.

this is also the problematic dirty area. although in mine the whole area above that (below when in engine) was full of black carbon S**t.

3. blue is oil. (obviously)

4. note the circlip around the middle sized piston.

hope this helps clarify my description.

Fred

Such a shame to see this replaced :

Last edited by fredio54 : 9-7-04 at 11:50.
EDIT :

Pics have gone from where ever they were, so here they are again :










 
#6 ·
I should also add that you can test to see if yours are ok by removing the cam cover(no need to have them out), and pushing down on the tops of the ones with CLOSED valves under them with a rag wrapped screwdriver. they need cleaning if you can easily(firmly?) push them down even a little. this should also show itself as ticking sounds.

All of this info is applicable to the K series v6s aswell

from what i've seen, you could be loosing upto 1/3 or more of your lift, and at a guess 1/3 of your power aswell.

Fred.
 
#7 ·
Interestingly enough. I just started to disassemble my FE3 yesterday, and I noticed that every single one of my HLA's were squishy except for 2. When I squeeze them oil comes out of the side hole. I cant imagine they're all bad though.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Trust me, THEY ARE ALL BAD. pull one apart, and then you will see what i mean.

were the two non-squishy ones on the intake side?

Fred.

PS just had a look at your site, i reckon youve got feap, fe3n cams.
do you? if so its probly out of a persona.
 
#9 ·
fredio54 said:
Trust me, THEY ARE ALL BAD. pull one apart, and then you will see what i mean.

were the two non-squishy ones on the intake side?

Fred.

PS just had a look at your site, i reckon youve got feap, fe3n cams.
do you? if so its probly out of a persona.
Yep you're right on the cams. What's a persona?
 
#11 · (Edited)
there is no way in hell soaking them is going to help!!

they take a lot of cleaning. look at your hourly rate, clean one, and then decide to clean more or buy all. make sure you keep em in order too, and get an ordered set with any cams you buy. and use moly grease.

pull ONE apart and see. if they are 13 bucks then it wont matter if you wreck it right!?

have a look on english.auto.vl.ru/catalog/ there you will find all the jap spec cars with FE3s. 140ps is i think what yours (and mine) make. by switching just the ap cam, youll find 5 - 8 ps. if you get both 5a cams youll find 10ps.

turboed though i doubt it'll matter much.

if you pull the pan off, id like to see the inside. my persona motor didnt have a pan when i pulled it, but it did have main bearing braces which dont fit inside my ally pan from my other FE3.(without grinding that is :) )

i wouldnt use any of the 5 oil plugs on the head for the turbo if i were you, but i would pull them out and clean in there. dirt dirt dirt.

use the feed above the oil filter. if you can get an oil cooler and threaded tube (m20 x 1.5) i would use that too especialy turbed.

Fred.
 
#13 · (Edited)
You're forgetting the most important part, damaging the silicone seal that goes around the outside diameter when a simple twisting motion will free the HLA from the rocker arm.

If you look at the HLA itself, it'll have a groove similar to how a cap fits on a soda bottle as shown in my HLA thread:



You can clearly see that they twist out rather than get smacked by a piece of wood:sigh:

You can also clearly see the difference between a new silicone seal and one that has completely flattened and won't hold pressure.

Rather than polish a turd, the best option is to buy them new.
 
#18 ·
Absolutely NOT the same concept!!!

Completely different!!!

Sick66 GET IT RIGHT or keep it shut.

NO rubber seals! only the parts I describe above. ALL STEEL.

dont hit them WITH wood. hit them ON wood, the inertia is enough to pop the circlip in and let the small pistons fly out.

i DO reckomend soaking them in petrol first, it makes it a little easier to get them apart(and less messy)

Sorry to get a little angry, but i dont like it when people who DONT know contradict those who do.

once again, if you are going to buy them, you may aswell give it a go first.

Fred.
 
#19 ·
Cleaning them.

woops, got carried away and forgot the question.

I used petrol, oven cleaner, and water, and more oven cleaner and more water until nothing discoloured the cleaner. then rinsed well, and oiled up. if people are interested then i'll descibe in more detail how to fill with oil after my skiing trip.

Fred.
 
#23 ·
It all depends how much time you have and how much YOUR time is worth.

two lifters would cost me a days wages here in NZ at my current (CRAP) job.

thus i cleaned them.

if 16 lifters cost you 1 - 2 days wages, buy them.

if you are in NO hurry to get it back together, then i'm pretty sure that you'd rather spend your $240 on 1/4 of your disco spud :)

you may be interested to see why they block up though, and why good oil (and regular changes) is/are a must.

Fred.
 
#24 ·
Exactly, which 75% of the population neglect to do. In this case, cleaning the HLA's might do you little or no good and you might spend 3 or 4 days looking at 5 or 6 junkyards trying to find HLA's that arent buggered from lack of maintenance.

It's been awhile since I've taken out 2G HLA's (about 3 years) so I hadnt remembered the actual look/makeup of them, however they are basically the same concept as the most other HLA's.

You can clean them all you want, but if they're tired, they're tired and cleaning them won't make a bit of difference.
 
#25 ·
I've got news for you :

my motor still had its original oil from mazda (read tar) in the head there was 6 - 8 mm of carbon solid buildup on all nonmoving parts. all of my lifters were very squishy. all of them now hold a perfect seal, and will work silently for a long time to come. the middle sized piston on most of mine was COMPLETELY FULL OF CARBON with a little air and no oil.

I have never seen a 12v lifter, but i'm thinking that youve only seen the 16v lifters in pictures.

Cleaning KL/FE3 HLAs works. Period.

Believe who you like.

last post to this thread till i have pictures.

Fred.
 
#26 ·
fredio54 said:
I've got news for you :

my motor still had its original oil from mazda (read tar) in the head there was 6 - 8 mm of carbon solid buildup on all nonmoving parts.
Fred.
yeh yeh, I'v had a KL with black-gel-oil from Japan once. It was a sad sight. How could those Japanese people sleep at night knowing they start their car up every morning with 50k and ORIGINAL OIL!? For shame:damnmad:
 
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