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6-30-05, 0:45
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#1 (permalink) |
 
 
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VW VR6 valve spring malfitment! who has them installed?
Being the mildly paranoid sort that I am, I decided to get one spring from vw before jumping in headlong. Having measured the spring, the head, the old spring, the small spring, the HLA and the retainer, I can now provide the following information :
All data obtained using a small s/s ruler, so not perfectly accurate, but pretty close. All measurements should have +/- 0.25 mm on them if I was going to be purely scientific, but I trust my eyes. Mazda Outer : 38.5mm free length 19.5mm fully compressed 29.25 OD 22.75 ID VW VR6 : 42.25 free length 20.5 fully compressed 30.125 OD 22.5 ID Mazda Inner : 37.5 free length 19.5 fully compressed 21 OD 16.5 ID Std Mazda Retainer : 28 overall diameter 22 first step 15 last step Washer that stops the springs pounding there way through the ally head : 29.5 OD, with a 15.125 OD for the centre spigot. Head hole - washer clearance : 0.5mm the spring fits inside the inner bore of the HLA with some clearance, i didnt measure how much. I checked both of my heads(jap, and NZ new), both the same(well duh). obviously i have only one spring, and even VW have tolerences, i may have got unlucky, and ended up with the one in a million that is this big, however given the low tolerences in vws past engineering work, i would hazard a guess and say even if i am on the larger side of the tolerence curve, anyone that ordered 16, would get at least one this big, and probably more. Conclusions : The VW springs are an 1/8th of a mm too large to fit inside the recess in the ally head. Possible solutions include : 1 : Super Maori Stylez (gheto) allow the large seat pressure to jam/bed the spring into the head rendering it quite secure, and very central, however making it difficult to remove in future, and possible/probably liberating shards of ally from the head into the oil! 2. machine the socket on the head to suit.(expensive, and time consuming) 3. lightly grind one end of the spring to allow it to fit. this is the option i will be favouring unless pointed to a better one. it wont weaken the spring signifigantly, and provides a neat solution. (also time consuming, however my time, not someone elses at XX $/hr... Question time :-) Who among you have an FE3 with these springs in it assembled right now? Who among those noticed this clearance issue? Who from those did something to rectify the situation, and what was it that you/your engineer did? Serious replies with something other than opinion to offer ONLY please! It seems to me that some(perhaps many of you) are not serious about this mazda game, however I am. I like this motor because 1. the bottom end was unbreakable even without the extra beef, and squirters, 2. it flows well enough to make excellent power, and the big one 3. it is readlily a rwd motor :-) moral of the story, if you dont have something good to offer leave this thread alone. that way, there will be less useless posts, and it will be infinitly more readable and more rich and dense in info than otherwise. if you want to complain about this paragraph, do it by starting another fred bashing thread, or PMing me. Have a nice day, and i look forward to a limited number of usefull replies. Fred. |
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6-30-05, 6:58
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#3 (permalink) |
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did you assemble it yourself? it would be very easy to miss, there is a lip on the lower side of the recess that makes the spring sit square if you drop it in. if you look really carefully down the side you can see it sitting on top of the hole instead of in it like it should. we are only talking 3mm too high, and the lack of room is like .1 of a mm or so(almost interference fit) so if they/you didnt notice, and yours didnt fit, then they will be in good and proper by now, and not coming out in a hurry :-) maybe i'll get a pic and post it so people can see. i just cant believe no-one else noticed, i guess a bit of paranoia is good sometimes.
do you have HLAs or solids? if solid, you may just need some shims in there to quiet it down... next time you have the cover off, look down the side of a few, and see if you can see the starting coil of any of them visible above the recess. even if they didnt seat properly, they would probably still work, just with even more seat pressure. dutch : i'll be measuring the possible lift you could run with stock valves tomorrow or so, so i'll let you know how much the limit is with the stock gear then. who else has them in, dont be shy, i dont bite(hard) :-) djjakes mate eric? anarchyx? any other takers? Fred. |
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6-30-05, 11:29
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#4 (permalink) |
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Experiment 626
 
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I put them in as well. Didnt notice any issues during installation, but my motor's not even running yet so i wont know if there's a problem or not.
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Anarchyx
'98 VW Jetta K2- Daily driver. '94 Miata C-package- Tein S-tech, Tokico Illumina, FCM bump stops & 15" OZ Superleggera, MSPNP |
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6-30-05, 15:23
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#6 (permalink) |
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anarchyx : i doubt if you'll notice a problem by driving it, you will be able to see down the side if you havent rtved the cam cover on yet. the little lip would allow them to sit square, and look just fine, and they would probably compress enough to allow fitting the retainer without issue.
evo : if you didnt replace them or clean them then i'd put money on it. when i got my motors, i was proudly telling my cousin who is a mechanic, and he said "well those are going to tick" and i said "but theyve got hlas, they shouldnt tick at all", and he said "trust me they always tick." then i went and took one apart, and you know the rest. has no one else got the vw springs? even on your bench with an empty head near by? Fred. |
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6-30-05, 17:02
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#7 (permalink) | |
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Quote:
yep i have. i will check this weekend.. got 16 VR6 springs in my shed with an empty head. interesting what the outcome is. |
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hi, my name is Dutch and im a Mazdaholic:
1989 Mazda 626 GT-LX 2.0i-16v coupe soon 2 be supercharged, Jan '09 1992 Mazda 626 GLX 2.2i-12v Wagon Quote:
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6-30-05, 20:16
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#8 (permalink) |
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I said" NO PROBLEMS AT ALL" to run the VR6 springs.
The springs(inner FE3-outerVR6) are about 25 % stiffer that the FE3. Run with the stock HLA with a regrind ex cam. I rev my motor until 9000 rpm last year with no problem. I built my head myself and i see nothing that don't fit. This year i run solid lifter and big cams...(expect 10,000 rpm) When i have the time i explain in detail to transfert in solid VERY EASY and cost about 10.00$ ea lifter. Eric |
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6-30-05, 21:44
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#9 (permalink) |
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well, on both of my heads with my one vw spring, there is a problem, be it a minor one, but a problem none the less. i have already said that i may have a rogue spring, however i strongly doubt it.
can any of you say, "yes i checked this specific area, and yes they did fit", rather than, "i didnt notice/see anything wrong", because obviously it still could have been wrong even if you didnt notice it. looking forward to dutchs research... cheers, fred. |
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6-30-05, 21:51
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#10 (permalink) |
 
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well I never thought about it, I had the springs and bare head in my posession for the longest time. I took it all to the machine shop last week, and received a call from them today that I may have a problem, so I need to go up there and look everything over...so I guess we'll see
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7-10-05, 6:16
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#15 (permalink) |
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  free length is measured by me to be 42.25mm indeed as told before i noticed the spring "clicks" in place when installing in the head. i really wouldnt tell if this can do harm. and perhaps indeed its better to give them a small regrind before putting them in. |
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hi, my name is Dutch and im a Mazdaholic:
1989 Mazda 626 GT-LX 2.0i-16v coupe soon 2 be supercharged, Jan '09 1992 Mazda 626 GLX 2.2i-12v Wagon Quote:
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