Freds super duper mega how to mod your ute sump for rwd thread.

**fredio54** · 1-13-07, 5:28

As with all of my stuff, this has a rwd slant on it :-) its the only way to go i tell you.

I will finish the sump tomorrow and shrink, and upload and label all of the images.

This should be the definitive guide to rwd sumps that are not dry.

dry is the best of course, but a bit of a hassle.

the same principles apply to fwd sumps, but i've never had oil surge issues on fwds i've flogged.

basically give it as much volume down low as possible, distribute that volume off to the sides and infront and behind the pickup with suitable volumes depending on your intended usage.

for me a big rear "wing" would be best (BRAKE!! ;-) )

then, at or below the level of the oil when the engine is screaming (1 - 2 litres upstairs and in the air) you put a sealed plate over the whole lot with 2 holes

dipstick
pickup

thus all oil that falls from the engine swills around on top of this plate till it gets sucked/falls down into the pickup reservoir.

you'd think that was bad... but its not because A the oil wants to fall B the oil is being sucked down by the pump C any time the G direction isnt straight up and down, the oil cant run away... its trapped. the oil from the wing that is now up hill falls down to the pickup, and the whole lot is kept around the pickup by the lid

you might think that the oil coming down from the engine will be kept from getting to the pickup by the plate, and you are half right, it will, but if the plate were not there, that oil would just fall to the front (under brakes) anyway, and not be anywhere near the pickup

so, what we have then is a buffer of oil for the temporary period when you are pulling some G's (you are rice if you dont pull G's) sooner or later the pump will exhaust this supply and it will be all pooled on top of the plate, hopefully by this time, you are back on the gas hard for the next straight ;-)

pictures to follow tomorrow as i must finish it by then ( with the exception of the turbo drain (which should come down above the plate))

major job one from week one of the 11 week get the ute running hard fast plan nearly complete :-)

fred.

EDIT : sump spacer dxfs here :

sump.spacer.dxf
sump.spacer.solid.dxf
sump.spacer.crosshatched.dxf

if these ever stop working, please use the site to pm or email me and i will attempt to rehost them.

thanks, fred.

**fredio54** · 1-13-07, 15:08

i forgot a couple of small points :

i'm doing this because i really get no oil pressure quite often in both the ute and skyline. either can in stock form be made to light up the idiot light at 50kph or less under brakes. from something more like 150kph, its on for some time :-)

other thing is the roofs and floors should respectively not trap air, or trap oil, ie, no bubbles on the roof when full, and no oil in the bottom when draining (just common sense). i fail on the bubble one... or do i, off to the shed to find out if i can be bothered :-)

fred.

**fredio54** · 1-14-07, 3:38

well, things didnt quite go as planned today, the sump is nearly done, but not quite, i'd like to present my entire bottom end solution in one go, so you'll have to wait for pics, just a little longer. tomorrow night should see things more or less wrapped up...

heres a teaser in the mean time :

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...4/100_2948.jpg

that was phase 1, the front wing.

till next time :-)

fred.

**fredio54** · 1-16-07, 4:29

cutout for the front wing
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...dio54/sump.jpg

the panel that i made for the front wing
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...io54/front.jpg

the technique here was to half cut through where i wanted to bend it to make the bend easy to do by hand. and then weld on the inside to give it strength again.

here it is ready to be welded on
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...54/front-1.jpg

as all good ozzys know, all patterns for sump pieces should be made from the kids cocopops box... oh wait... i dont have kids. busted.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...54/front-2.jpg

and ready to be welded
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...54/front-3.jpg

and welded
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...4/100_2948.jpg

and on the inside, not the penetration of the weld from the walls of the front wing into the floor of the original sump
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...54/front-4.jpg

next, the side wings...

**fredio54** · 1-16-07, 4:34

**fredio54** · 1-16-07, 4:36

ready to be folded, note zinc removed...
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...dio54/rear.jpg

welded inside view
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...o54/rear-1.jpg

welded outside view
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...o54/rear-2.jpg

isnt it pretty
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...o54/rear-3.jpg

next the whole thing...

**fredio54** · 1-16-07, 4:41

**carcenomy** · 1-16-07, 5:00

That's one crazy lookin sump you got there Fred. How well do you expect all these wingalings will work?

**fredio54** · 1-16-07, 5:19

very well. we havent quite got there photographically yet, but there is circa 2L extra in there all down low, and all trapped under a top plate that only the dipstick and pickup hang through. thus when the engine "tips" or pulls G's the oil cant move, and so just gets pumped and overflows a little. this provides a buffer of maybe 0.5 seconds of oil supply for a cornering or braking maneuver pessimistically.

the plate is low enough that there will be oil sloshing around on top of it and falling in at all times.

optimistically i may never see that oil light again.

fred.

**fe3t b2200** · 1-16-07, 6:27

that sump is a joke! for starters i have had a fe3 in my ute with over 200kw at the treads and it was allways driven extremly hard never once did the oil light come on! im not say the stock sump is ideal and dont personaly run a stock one but a winged alloy sump as alloy cools the oil better and wings not half as rediculously big as that! i emailed a link to your pics to my old boss at fortec performance who races fe dohcs in his circuit car he is still laughing he said you must plan on flying that thing in world war 3 and pulling 12G at 10000rpm! but on the another note its not good to have that much still oil stuck in your sump' you will find that by restricting the oil from coming out of the sump you inherintly trap air bellow this plate too! as when oil is hot its thinner than water it will move round and air will end up bellow your plate and as the dip stick tube and pick up are the only things that protrude the plate they are also the oly two ways out for the air! this is bad because it encourages the air pockets to move towards the pick up and you will be picking up airated oil! also i use to build allot of sumps for speed way probably one of the most demanding applications on a sump as there are situations where the car can be on its side driving round the wall! and impacts ect this sport has tuned the way sumps are made! just go to a speedway supplies shop and look at a morosso gated sump! this is more wot you should have done! small to medium sized wings with a simple diamond shaped baffle around the pick up with 4 hinges one on each side so oil can enter the box and not leave except for up the pick up! a very small amount of research would have saved you allot of work and netted better results! unless of coarse you do intend on flying in world war 3

**fredio54** · 1-16-07, 13:02

i intend on pulling 1g in 3 of the 4 axis available to me, and about 0.5 in the other. i do this daily already and as stated, i suffer oil lights on all the time. "driving your ute hard" does not just involve taking off from the lights a bit and coasting. a lot of research went into this, and design, and i can now confidently say that you have no credibility at all. let me tell you one thing : trap doors are a waste of time. think about that for a while, and if your small town brain can comprehend why, i'll buy you a beer next time you visit the home of the jafa.

fred.

**fredio54** · 1-16-07, 14:36

see the previous image post for an update...

the sump should be bolted down solid for the majority of the work, ideally you want a frame such that you can access the inside while its braced. alas, i didnt have such a thing, and so relied on even heating and even welding to keep it straight. most of it was welded "free"

the only warpage i got is shown here
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...54/warpage.jpg

and dedicated to sick, who always has his thumb in all his mega photo shoots ;-) :

why to not weld on carpet :
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f323/fredio54/why.jpg

enjoy :-)

discussion (intelligent) welcome :-)

fred.

**fe3t b2200** · 1-16-07, 17:14

no credability at all shows wot you know budy! for the last 6 years i have worked in the automotive performance performance industry! mainly in custom fabrication! and trap doors work a treat! also you wouldnt know hwo i drive so dont imply street racing cos you are just making it clear that you actually do have no idea!

**fredio54** · 1-16-07, 17:23

congratulations, you know how to weld! :-) trap doors are not much different to no trap doors. think about it... just for a moment, if you have the capacity. i never said street racing, i for one rev my engine hard, and accelerate, and launch just driving around by myself doing day to day things. all i said was that accelerating doesnt count as driving the car hard. only driving the engine hard, and then only if you do it continuously.

**fredio54** · 1-16-07, 18:20

last nights efforts with the poor mans milling machine/cnc (angle grinder) :

the stocker in detail :
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...o54/main-4.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...o54/main-5.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...o54/main-6.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...o54/main-7.jpg

and ground to suit the f2t tray while still retaining 70% of its strength across each cap, and 50% between to caps. and approximately the same stiffness between two caps (the important part) :
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...dio54/main.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...o54/main-1.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...o54/main-2.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...o54/main-3.jpg

i now need to construct a 10mm steel spacer to span the block, which will give the oil even more of a chance of staying off the crank, and in its place below the plate.

tonight i'll probably do the other one, and start drawing up a pic of the sump spacer in cad to share with you lot.

fred.