Rods Bulk Buy - Potential Scam - Discussion Thread.

[Goatcrapp]

I'll leave open the possibility that stroker isn't actually a scammer... and for the sake of the members here i hope he isn't...

But when he refuses to answer questions designed to protect the membership, and in fact reacts in a hostile manner when asked for his personal contact information - the information of the vendor, and other standard info, to both my staff and myself... its sets off the scammer alert.

When he stops responding to the threads, and the questions asked to him by paying members... that sets off a scam alert.

When he has accepted money without going through any of the safeguards we have in place, as requirements for a bulkbuy, and refuses to reply to the staffers that have contacted him... THAT SETS OFF A SCAM ALERT.


What I ask from everyone involved in this bulk buy - provide us with all the pertinent information. All i have is his email address : michellou@bigpond.com.au

I hope you get your money back.. If you don't like my approach - I'm here to prevent you from getting scammed out of your money.. i couldn't care about personal opinions at this point. If some of you liked stroker or are friends with him... good for you. It still doesn't change my opinion on this matter unless I am shown a significant increase in stroker's willingness to cooperate with us.

Before the rumor mill starts - this has nothing to do with sponsor fees or mx6.com "Getting it's piece" - i could care less about that.

All i care about: someone from this site has accepted money directly... no money has been sent to a vendor, and the person accepting money elected to stop responding to paying member's questions (a typical tactic to buy time - look at every other high profile scam on this and other sites)

When questioned by the staffers of this site- he did not offer any information, and immediately became defensive at the simple requests for contact info... another telltale sign.

When the issue was escalated, he responded in a hostile manner. another telltale sign.

forward me any and all information you have, and i'll do my best to try and help you get your money back.

[zlyricist]

what a blow to the fe3 community.....i hope this works out in a positive way and everyone gets their money back

[Casejunkie]

How sure are you that this is a Scam?

The only problem that I have seen lately is that not everyone is paying for the rods. And that is holding back for ordering the rods.

And now stroker is banned he can't reply in this thread. So we can't discusse with hem.

[fredio54]

All of that may be true, but the facts remain :

• He was always a sporadic random poster who didn't respond to things in a timely fashion.
• He was always aggressive and rude etc.

I don't like the guy AT ALL, but it seems to me that it is a lack of people paying that has delayed the proceedings, not him. He posted his address some months back and hasn't got a lot of posts total, so finding it, either directly or by finding all edited posts from ages ago and looking at them in backups will get you the address without issue.

It also seems to me that banning him is a sure fire way to ensure that people don't get anything back as he might have A difficulty contacting them B no desire to after being given ultimatums.

I realise you don't give a [shizzle] what I think, and I also don't have my cash with him, but I thought it is worth pointing out those relevant points.

Fred.

[Zach]

http://www.mx6.com/forums/2054988-post254.html (Scat Forged Rods Bulk Buy !!)

A simple reply with his contact information and the vendors contact information would've probably avoided this, but when you tell a mod to "get [fizzle]ed" after requesting this information, what would your reaction be? He's got over $4k of mx6.com members' money. This is why we have Bulk Buy procedures in place, so situations like these are most likely avoided.

[fredio54]

Originally Posted by Zach

but when you tell a mod to "get [fizzle]ed" after requesting this information, what would your reaction be?

Firstly, I would be careful about how I asked for it, secondly, I'd tell him the same back ;-) I wouldn't get all upset about it.

[Casejunkie]

It's not the smartest way to react from his side. But banning him takes away his possibility to give a reaction.

I don't like that he is banned before we know sure that this is a scam

[Goatcrapp]

Fredio - he was asked four times before i said that this was required, and he was fully warned of a ban.

secondly - i don't give a crap about his posting habits. This has been ongoing for a week, and i checked the logs thoroughly - he had read each and every PM, and elected not to respond.

thirdly - i don't have to be careful how I ask for something.. this isn't [fizzle]ing kindergarten. This is a 4,000.00 + transaction on a website I'm charged with caring for. It's a 4,000.00+ transaction that took place in a tech forum, instead of going through the proper safeguards we have in place to prevent bulk-buys gone wild.

When my staffers and other members tell me he's ignoring them, and then he ignores me - the next step is simply.."answer or ban", and if his ego is that fragile that i need to word things nicely and "stroke" the stroker - not my problem. I'm not here to babysit feelings... I'm interested in only a few things.. He accepted money... He became non responsive. Someone who doesn't have something to hide, has no problem being forthcoming with the requested information, when dealing with transactions this large.

When you accept money for something, you damn well better answer the people who paid you. He was asked nicely several times before I got involved. The onus isn't on me, fred, the onus is on the guy holding the money to inspire confidence in those he is dealing with. He failed to inspire confidence, his behavior threw up several red flags, and he was called on it with a final requirement for information.

And Fred, I do care what you guys think, which is why we created this discussion thread. The goal isn't to kill this BB, it is to prevent a scam from dragging out for months with a bunch of hopeful people hanging on to the last threads of possibility, while the money collector has no intention on delivering. THAT's exactly what has happened each and every time in the past, when the payee was given third and fourth chances at explaining.

When this is resolved, I'll happily help push a new BB along using the PROPER channels...

At the end of the day however - even if this is a misunderstanding between myself, the mx6.com staff, and Stroker... its no excuse for being nonresponsive. Its no excuse for replying in a hostile manner. I've seen big profile scams constantly on this and other sites, and the scammers all follow that same formula... If you think this is about being upset - then you've got a severely myopic view of the situation. This is about a potential big budget scam being conducted on the site - nothing more, nothing less.

You know the expression - if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck? Stroker should consider not walking and talking like a duck (scammer) if he wishes to avoid being treated like one.

Fred, I have to disagree that banning is a surefire way to create a thief... he either intended on stealing the money or not. whatever insult a banning creates doesn't change THAT part of a person's character. If i get fired from a company, I don't suddenly lose all my integrity. If I get banned from a site (it's happened) - I don't suddenly become a thief.

If he isn't a thief - he will send back people's money regardless. If and when that happens, I'll be happy to discuss reinstating him as a member. Being hostile toward my staff is a surefire way to earn a ban, regardless of the circumstances. If you think that's a valid excuse, reason, or justification to steal people's money, well, that's between you and your moral compass. Banning him for his actions shouldn't create a thief, unless he already planned on being one.

[Goatcrapp]

Casejunkie - if this isn't a scam - he has several ways to contact me and convince me, or scooby, or several others who have contacted him. He also has all of your contact information, and can simply start sending back money.

[fredio54]

Originally Posted by Goatcrapp

When my staffers and other members tell me he's ignoring them, and then he ignores me - the next step is simply.."answer or ban", and if his ego is that fragile that i need to word things nicely and "stroke" the stroker - not my problem. I'm not here to babysit feelings...

It may not be your problem, and indeed, you don't have cash involved, but you may want to consider the consequences of your actions on other peoples pockets before taking them. That is not to say I condone his behaviour, and indeed, I explicitly stated that I dislike him (immensely), however, I think aggravating a potentially fragile situation in that fashion is a poor choice. It is not my business in any way as I don't have cash in it, however I know some people may feel the same way, and their testicular fortitude may be less than mine with regards posting that opinion.

As for the job analogy :

Take a guy that works for a company with an internal diesel supply and drives a diesel truck. He works there and steals no diesel for a year. For what he considers negligible reasons, he is fired. In his notice period there is every chance he'll be filling up that truck out of spite. This is normal human behaviour that you can observe every day in trivial ways. Just because this is a non trivial way, that does not change the behaviour pattern of being spiteful.

Hence my reasoning on not banning him this early. You've removed his primary mechanism of communication with the people whose money he has and made it MORE effort for him to sort it out. If you make something that someone doesn't want to do harder than it needs to be, you DO reduce the chances of them doing it.

Once again, I'm not excusing his past behaviour (poor) or his future behaviour (if it ends up as you suspected) just saying that the chances of it ending up that way HAVE increased because of the ban move.

There are many ways to skin a cat.

My 2c, I'm out of this thread.

Fred.

[Casejunkie]

I'm with Fred with this. He explains exactly how I'm thinking about this matter.

I hope that the others think alike

[Goatcrapp]

His email is posted above. Anyone involved can feel free to email him. Unless he somehow proves to me that he's not ripping everyone off - then sorry but he will not be unbanned. IF he can word a proper message, and answer the questions he was asked, then we can talk. I have no problem sending this along to AFP and NCB (Australias police and interpol bureaus , respectively) if it means getting you guys your money back.

Looking at it from the point of view of someone who has been on both ends (buyer or mediator) of just about every major scam on this site and probetalk... banning him for non compliance won't create a scammer, unless he was one already. If he's not - i'll gladly reinstate him on the site. The trouble is - when he's showing all the classic signs of a bulk buy gone awry... and then he responds directly to me the way he did - what would you expect me to think? If you're having trouble making that distinction between things like taking a pen home from work, and this... again i will say... that's between you and your own moral compass. If you have the capacity to steal 4k from other people... that capacity exists on a level beyond anything a bannination could cause.

But, lets try this. I will downgrade his ban to one that allows private messaging. If he's at all interested in resolving this, then PM's should suffice. If he prefers not to deal with me, that's fine too... he can talk to dutch, zach, justin, or scooby. make no mistake however... when you have 4k in moneys that our members have paid.. a response *is* required.

What I'm trying to avoid here is him coming on giving everyone false hope, dragging it on. We've all seen it. We all like to maintain hope. Most of the time it doesn't happen.. and by that time paypal's 30 day rule is long since expired, and no one gets anything. That's why i urge everyone to put in their disputes immediately.. instead of letting it drag on for another month. If any of you want answers, and Stroker really has nothing to hide here - then he'll have no problems answering your emails. If he's non responsive - by all means tell me what you think. Tell me if he's still on the up and up.

*edit - from the IP logs, I can see that he has viewed this thread as a guest.

[Zach]

Originally Posted by fredio54

You've removed his primary mechanism of communication with the people whose money he has and made it MORE effort for him to sort it out. If you make something that someone doesn't want to do harder than it needs to be, you DO reduce the chances of them doing it.

Not really Fred, he can log into the paypal account and see exactly who has sent him money, and contact them or give a refund. It takes just as much effort as logging into mx6.com and sending someone a PM. He can even check his email he has registered with paypal and see who sent him money. It's not that difficult to do the right thing.

We were being diplomatic, and he got three chances before the respond or ban.

[chief tool]

I dont think this is a scam, I just think stroker had just had enough of trying to get the bulk buy up and going.....he might have a short fuse, things might not be good at home, who knows.
Maybe handling the paperwork side of the bulk buy just wasnt his thing.
but the otherside too, if you already under immense pressure from all angles, having people hassle you for information is probably not what you'd want...I understand that's part of the resposnibility of having other peoples money, maybe he didn't.

I probably would have done it differently.....


I will contact Stroker off the list, as he lives not far from me and see what he says about whats happenened so far.

[jesiotrot]

Originally Posted by chief tool

I dont think this is a scam, I just think stroker had just had enough of trying to get the bulk buy up and going.....he might have a short fuse, things might not be good at home, who knows.
Maybe handling the paperwork side of the bulk buy just wasnt his thing.
but the otherside too, if you already under immense pressure from all angles, having people hassle you for information is probably not what you'd want...I understand that's part of the resposnibility of having other peoples money, maybe he didn't.

I probably would have done it differently.....


I will contact Stroker off the list, as he lives not far from me and see what he says about whats happenened so far.

I'm with chief tool on this one, this may be all resolved with a simple phone call. Do you have his number chief? I spoke to stroker some time ago but have since lost his phone number. If you have it could you please PM it to me as i would like to ring stroker as well.