Gas rant

[easyBob]

Institute for Energy Research » Blog Archive » Speculators Not to Blame for High Oil Prices

To counter the speculator argument.

-Chris

[lnlogauge]

Originally Posted by easyBob

Institute for Energy Research » Blog Archive » Speculators Not to Blame for High Oil Prices

To counter the speculator argument.

-Chris

Institute for Energy Research - SourceWatch
ExxonSecrets Factsheet: Institute for Energy Research

to counter your counter.

[Turk]

Cliffnotes

Institute for Energy Research gives receives regular donations from ExxonMobil since 1998.

Kind in a similar position if you heard this headline. Well different, but same irony(bull[shizzle]).

"Big oil company to fund alternative energy research"

Although the money they have given, doesnt seem like much of Exxons massive budget BUT, it is a research(well, publisher, well not even that really) place so it doesnt need THAT much money. $50000 donation to a university will do a hell of a lot for a research project, but isnt much money on an oil companies bottom line.

[easyBob]

Originally Posted by lnlogauge

Institute for Energy Research - SourceWatch
ExxonSecrets Factsheet: Institute for Energy Research

to counter your counter.

Not really. I see donations and stuff, but no info on how speculators are causing increases in demand and hording the stuff. To counter your counter-counter, I might as well say, "I'm the King of France, and you're wrong."

That's just about the same.

BTW, did you even read the PDF? I've been pointing out the weak dollar for months before any talking head brought up speculators. All this talk about speculators reminds me of Russian history, well, that and some talk on the hill by lefties to nationalize (steal) refineries.

Originally Posted by Rep. Maurice Hinchey (D-NY), member of the House Appropriations Committee and one of the most-ardent opponents of off-shore drilling

We (the government) should own the refineries. Then we can control how much gets out into the market.

There is also this piece, which I like more of course:

The Oil Follies - William L. Anderson - Mises Institute

Who donates to them?

-Chris

[Turk]

I love that the US dollar is going [shizzle], if it wasnt, I would be paying even more for fuel then I do now.

Im quite sure it is demand/supply that is causing the prices, oil companies are still [mangina]s, the "speculators" are just scared you cant blame them for making their predictions. They could have just been right.

[easyBob]

Originally Posted by Turk

I love that the US dollar is going [shizzle], if it wasnt, I would be paying even more for fuel then I do now.

Really? My interest is peaked. I would like to know how you figure this.

-Chris

[Turk]

Originally Posted by easyBob

Really? My interest is peaked. I would like to know how you figure this.

-Chris

American oil refineries make the fuel, Australian suppliers/retailers/whatever purchase this fuel in US dollars with our now much much stronger Australian dollar.

Say if it was $1US a gallon, if our dollar was worth 70c like it was 5 years or so ago, we would only get 70% of a gallon. Now we get 96% of a gallon for our AU dollar.

Not to say this is fact, only my assumption, and I am sure I have picked it up somewhere, our hedging of these high oil prices. Now I do realise there is another thing, if these US oil companies are buying their oil in Saudi Arabian dollars(or whatever) then the weakaning US dollar means the companies will by less oil for their US dollar.

Oh and Americans cant sook, us Aussies pay double what you do, we always have, and Europeans pay double what us Aussies do.. But I suppose us Aussies and Americans have much further to drive in our wide sprawled cities. And im guessing you fellas put up with [shizzle]house public transport as well, from the European cities ive been too, public transport was excellent and cheap.

[lnlogauge]

Originally Posted by easyBob

Not really. I see donations and stuff, but no info on how speculators are causing increases in demand and hording the stuff. To counter your counter-counter, I might as well say, "I'm the King of France, and you're wrong."

That's just about the same.

BTW, did you even read the PDF? I've been pointing out the weak dollar for months before any talking head brought up speculators. All this talk about speculators reminds me of Russian history, well, that and some talk on the hill by lefties to nationalize (steal) refineries.



There is also this piece, which I like more of course:

The Oil Follies - William L. Anderson - Mises Institute

Who donates to them?

-Chris

The donation is pretty worthless in standards, so I dont really care about that. What does interest me is the work that they do.

"advocates positions on environmental issues which happen to suit the energy industry: climate change denial, claims that conventional energy sources are virtually limitless, and the deregulation of utilities."

Gee, what industry do we work for? not reality, thats for sure.

I glanced over the PDF, and the justification for it not being speculation is supply and demand. The problem with that theory is supply and demand doesnt work the same when a necessity is discussed. The demand is always going to be there, regardless of the supply. We are also taking out free market, which basically ends the effectiveness of supply and demand.

I look at cnn money every day, and its incredibly frustrating how the dumbest things raise gas prices, while the idea of Saudi increasing supply lowers it enough to be offset in a day. If it were really a game of supply and demand, and the largest oil producer offers to produce enough oil to bring costs down to reality, wouldnt the price come down to reality?

[Turk]

Supply demand works for everything, even neccessity, especially for oil. Developing countries are becoming more developed , they need more oil then they ever did. Massive demand. The oil in the world is drying up, limited supply. Bam, expensive fuel.

[easyBob]

Originally Posted by lnlogauge

We are also taking out free market, which basically ends the effectiveness of supply and demand.

How did you come to that conclusion? I read about true free market economics almost every day merely to try to understand why things are going down hill.

The conclusion I reached many years ago is that we don't have a free market in energy (and plenty of other things). A lot of oil suppliers are state owned, in fact, the largest oil "companies" in the world are owned by governments. On the other side of things, there are rules and regulations up the wazu for the energy industry in the u.S., not to mention corporate welfare for "alternate" (useless) forms of energy.

I would have to say, other than things like health care, energy is the most un-free market in the world. You know, it's hard to be free when there are people forcing you to do this and that.

I agree with Turk, and I see his point about the u.S. dollar helping him out. We've got nobody to blame but the Fed. And I still don't blame speculators.

-Chris

[Heis-Strokanoff]

Originally Posted by Turk

Yer Jack in the Box that is the one. I swear he went over there and became obssessed with food. Still skinny, but I wouldnt be suprised if I saw him next(comes back once every 2 years) and he gained like 50lbs.

lmao at how this went from gas to food. Just made me hungry talking about all these burgers.

[Turk]

I dont know Chris about the oil market not being a free market. I mean I agree that it is not competitive, but mainly state owned is a big stretch. It is dominated by massive conglomerates (not like ma and pa shops can refine oil) that collude so much that their can not possibly be a free market but I dont think it is State interference that does it, I say lack of State interference, or maybe the amount of power the oil companies have over the state.

In the Middle East and Africa yes plenty of state run oil companies (Sauddi Arabia bam) on the supply side but you only need to look at the role Chevron , Mobil etc play in "state" companies like Iraq oil (or whatever it is called) to see that it is the big enterprise US companies that call the shots. Free trade is a big part of this and their no/open bid access to the oil means that it is the big US companies that run the show. A prime example of big game capitalism gone sour.

Topics that I wont hit for sake of not repeating the same [shizzle] over and over.
Iraq war.
Media coverage of Saudi Arabia or lack there of. We all hate Iran and Iraq, but it is Sauddi governement/dictarship that is the real prime example of radical, terrorist and controlling Islam. But they give their oil freely and for good price so no bad main stream media or western govt condemnation of them.

Lets not get started on Americas dodgy health care system.

Chris I cant possibly discuss the economics of the oil system in depth like you could, but Im pretty set in my view that it is Corparate America and not govt intervention that makes the decisions in how and what happens with the market. The Iraq oil market is a great public example of how they operate, mainly because it has at least been slightly let out in the open but not that the media would ever cover it. 2007 Iraq oil law etc, stuff they do to every oil producing country on the hush hush (not secret, just unnoticed).

Things like "Free trade" agreements between the U.S and even Australia for example where there are always conditions designed to protect US interests while Australia is open game and gets the [shizzle] end of the stick. And if that is with Australia a 100% permament and developed ally you can only imagine what type of agreements would go on with developing nations. World monetary fund or whatever blah blah. China is changing all that though.

[easyBob]

Here is just another piece of the puzzle:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/fredgraph?chart_type=line&width=1000&height=600&preserve_ratio=true&s[1][id]=BORROW

There is a thread in the lounge that's titled "Wow, this is crazy"...I really wanted to post it there and say "If you think that is crazy, look at this!"

-Chris

[Turk]

Hahha I was looking at that graph thinking what a [shizzle]ty graph all that space for nothing then BAM. The things with visual graphs though, they can be deceptive, even with the information they are comparing against.

[nate_v8]

Originally Posted by Turk

I love that the US dollar is going [shizzle], if it wasnt, I would be paying even more for fuel then I do now.

Im quite sure it is demand/supply that is causing the prices, oil companies are still [mangina]s, the "speculators" are just scared you cant blame them for making their predictions. They could have just been right.

Turk you ass hole, I'm on my way over to Australia now on a raft made of empty beer cans to do your job for $1.50/hr.


I don't really think your an ass hole, but do keep an eye out for the fat guy headed in on budlight cans.