Autox/Autocrossing a Mazda MX-6

[miatatude]

Originally Posted by I4MX6

But then again I don't race with r-comps...I race with soft street tires, so very different in the end.

Oh well then I guess that explains it. With a stickier tire (r-compound), you want the stiffest sidewall possible, in most scenarios, that tire is going to stay planted regardless. With a street tire, your right, some give is better! I agree. In fact, my first season of autox I ran on a low pro tire and did fairly well with it, but after a friend of mine gave me a pair of used slicks, I could never go back!

[miatatude]

Originally Posted by Pirate_d00d

Yeah I'm pretty much new to autox, I've never been to an event. I watched one of Piers' vids and got hooked, then transfered to this thread. I though autocross would be a good place for me to start. I've been wanting to get a new hobby, and autocross is becoming more and more appealing to me. I just have to work on maintenance issues and replacing parts that need to be replaced before I really push my 6. I have been wanting a new hobby for a LONG time

Gavin and I4MX6, thanks for the good info . As for what class I plan to compete in, more than likely not stock. I plan on doing some modifications and upgrades, so I won't be competing in stock class. This is all of course just looking into the future.

That is so awesome! Its very addictive, so beware. But unlike other forms of racing, autox is the most fun and affordable (imo). I used to drag race with a 75 shot of juice and had my car more built for drag than anything else, so when I decided I wanted to do autox, I realized that put me in a much higher class than my car was really ready for. Well, the main thing was the body kit... that put me in CSP which on a PAX index, really screws with my time. So I'm working on getting my car well into CSP so that it really does belong in that class. If I could go back, I would start with a car that isn't heavily modded like mine was and then actually plan to be in certain classes in stages so that there wasn't a point where I was only in a class due to one useless mod. So its best to consult the rulebook for whatever venue you want to particpate in to find out what mod would put you in what class.

I've gotten alot of excellent advice here and appreciate all of it! You can find autox events at myautoevents.com or planet-torque.

[The_Evil_Demon]

when is your next event. and where. I mightbe interested in just going and checking things out.

[gavin]

Originally Posted by I4MX6

Some people like stiffer sides and others don't. I've played with slightly stretched tires and flat side tires, as well as various sidewall stiffnesses and have found that a sightly softer side allows for a better roll into a corner while keeping the tire planted and the car controlled. Too stiff a tire and it slides. But then again I don't race with r-comps...I race with soft street tires, so very different in the end.

Theres what people like and then theres whats fast.You may want to rethink your approach on tire pressures, heres why.

R-compound tires are built with very stiff sidewalls for two reasons, steering sharpness/response and to maintain the tires contact patch with the ground(which gives the tire more grip). Street tires have much softer sidewalls as they are built for comfort and road compliance but racing on them still require the same 2 characteristics of handling and grip.

For all cars, when the car is in a corner the car will tend to roll to the outside, so does the tire(even more so with a strut suspended car that doesnt have much camber gain). With low pressures the street tires wont have the resistance to stop rolling over onto their sidewalls. SIdewalls have very little grip, you need the tread of the tire in contact with the ground at all times. The solution is to increase the tire pressures to prevent the tire from rolling over in the corners. This will also have the benefit of artificially stiffening the tire(sidewalls) giving crisper steering and better feedback.

Its not uncommon to have new autocrossers arrive to events on street tires. First order of business for them...increase the tire pressures by about 8-10psi. When I was running in the Street Touring classes(street tires above 140 treadwear) I consistently ran 45+psi. This is with 500lb springs and about -3.5deg camber in front(street tires also need much more camber than r-comps...but thats another story).

Gavin

[miatatude]

Originally Posted by The_Evil_Demon

when is your next event. and where. I mightbe interested in just going and checking things out.

The next event is April 20th (the first event of the season) and it will be at the Tirerack in South Bend. The website is sbrscca.org and our full schedule is listed there. Guests are more than welcome to particpate if you want to do more than just watch.

[Tem]

YouTube - Mazda MX6 Laguna Seca Jan 2007 3rd Session Complete
I didnt read through all the pages but this guy does wonders with the 6 /hero

[I4MX6]

Originally Posted by gavin

Theres what people like and then theres whats fast.You may want to rethink your approach on tire pressures, heres why.

R-compound tires are built with very stiff sidewalls for two reasons, steering sharpness/response and to maintain the tires contact patch with the ground(which gives the tire more grip). Street tires have much softer sidewalls as they are built for comfort and road compliance but racing on them still require the same 2 characteristics of handling and grip.

For all cars, when the car is in a corner the car will tend to roll to the outside, so does the tire(even more so with a strut suspended car that doesnt have much camber gain). With low pressures the street tires wont have the resistance to stop rolling over onto their sidewalls. SIdewalls have very little grip, you need the tread of the tire in contact with the ground at all times. The solution is to increase the tire pressures to prevent the tire from rolling over in the corners. This will also have the benefit of artificially stiffening the tire(sidewalls) giving crisper steering and better feedback.

Its not uncommon to have new autocrossers arrive to events on street tires. First order of business for them...increase the tire pressures by about 8-10psi. When I was running in the Street Touring classes(street tires above 140 treadwear) I consistently ran 45+psi. This is with 500lb springs and about -3.5deg camber in front(street tires also need much more camber than r-comps...but thats another story).

Gavin

I do run higher pressures but not excessively high. Remember, its not overly warm here, so the tires don't tend to get sticky or stay sticky...well not with regards to street tires. With too high of pressure, the tire breaks loose on some of the soft sand on the track and it looses control and steering abilities. With a little flex, it sort of bobs into the sand a little and plants the weight better. Now I'm not saying run OEM pressures, but I'm not saying max out the tire recommendations either. I'm just saying that street is different then r-comp, and a lot of it has to do with traction offered cause its clear that they both differ in design and stiffness.

[deadmeat]

Hey Miatatude, welcome to the party

Glad to have another Miata auto-x'er here on the forum

But actually, our situations are actually reversed. I was the first to race, and then my g/f picked it up from going to autocrosses with me. We sometimes co-drive my Miata, or she takes hers out when we don't have to travel very far to get to an event.

I think these guys have quite a lot of good advice for setting up the suspension for the mx-6. I would love to add in some input, but honestly my knowledge is really limited to the FIRST gen mx-6 and Miata

I'm curious what setup you're running with your miata. I compete in a local sanctioned autox group, but don't do SCCA yet. I've thought about it, but I'm actually quite happy with the group I'm with now ( FAST ), as everyone knows each other (kinda like Cheers), and it's a very friendly group overall (we brought my pitt-bull out to the last event, and he climbed into someones BMW Z-3 M-model and the guy just shrugged his shoulders...).



I think before you get into doing any major mods, you should have the hubby learn how to drive the mx-6 first. Take it out stock, see what it can do, what it can't do, and learn how to drive FRONT WHEEL DRIVE!!!

Because you can't do this in a FWD car:
http://sarasotamiatas.com//Gymkhana107/DSC_7572.JPG *not linked because of it's excessively large size... *

Good luck and have fun

-meaty

[miatatude]

Hi there!

Boy do you have a lot of Miata’s! Good for you! Very cool that you were able to get your g/f into Autox. This sport definitely needs more female talent, I have no idea why we tend to be so outnumbered, although I spent some time drag racing, and can attest for this area at least that more females autox than they drag race or most other forms of racing for that matter. I have tried to get acquainted with other non-scca groups just for the sake of seat time, but to be honest, I didn’t really “mesh” with any of them other than a miata group in Chicago that comes out to the tirerack once a year.

I’d love to swap notes regarding miata setup for autocross. My first question is, do you run with adjusted camber/toe? I’ve got a setup now that I pretty mild, and won’t wear my tires too unevenly when driving on the street but I’m not sure its enough to really make a difference.

Here’s my setup info you asked about: Currently, I am running in an SCCA class, CSP, which is a “street prepared” class and is probably on the upside of half of the allowable modifications, (which stinks because I’m just barely into that “half” and not enough to really be at an advantage). A car other than stock can run in either street prepared or street mod, which are both classes for street legal cars, but if you go much farther, your into prepared, and those cars usually have no windshields, no body parts that are not necessary, no interior, usually no passenger seat, and are basically tin cans. I have done quite a bit to the “Miatatude” over the years, including some things that are either unecessary for autox or hurt more than they help, but I did them before I knew much about autox and was more aiming for a nice drag car or a show car. The most relevant mods that I am running for autox are: cold air intake with K & N filter, Jackson Racing full exhaust system (including aftermarket header) (if my memory serves me, it is a 4:2:1 system, roll bar, body kit (no help), aftermarket 3 stage clutch with aftermarket flywheel (this also puts me in a higher class which seems irrelevant since I’m only shifting once), eibach lowering springs, current have tokico non-adjustable shocks but just picked up a pair of adjustable Koni’s and can’t wait to install them, This season I will run on 225/50/14 Avon autox tires, last season I did Kumho victoracers, but burnt them up on a day at the evolution driving school; there may be more that I am forgetting. I’m also running on a ’96 engine even though my car is a ’94. I blew the engine on a 75 shot of nitrous while drag racing (time was 14.3 sec) and that was pretty much the straw that broke the camel’s back for me and drag racing considering I had already broke a clutch and a rear end.

The car also has some “prettys” which is purple leather interior, purple engine bay, lots of purple lights, and clear tails, oh and the veil side body kit which is molded…….

Sorry if that was like way TMI, I get kind of excited when it comes to my car.

[deadmeat]

Originally Posted by miatatude

Hi there!

Sorry if that was like way TMI, I get kind of excited when it comes to my car.

Can't blame ya there

For my alignment, I use the "Lanny alignment" specs from Miata.net . It's a bit aggressive for the street, but after the insides of your tires wear out, you just swap them on the wheels and put the insides out

As far as the classing goes for my group, the class I run in is "E", which is basically "modified street car on street tires under 3 litres of displacement" When you add a super or turbocharger, it bumps you up by a factor of 1.5 for their displacement classing.

Basically, any "real" mods will put you into the "e" class, i.e. shocks, springs, taking out your passenger seat, ect. (classing can be found at FAST - Autocross ).

Basically my Miata setup is as follows: '95 1.8 base model miata in black, Flyin Miata first generation springs on KYB AGX adjustable shocks, Flyin Miata rear shock towers, Flyin Miata Supersized Happy Meal clutch kit (stage 2 clutch/pressure plate, Flyin Miata Purple 9lbs. flywheel) , I run the R*speed Chapparell wheels in Onyx with a set of Hankook RS z212's in 225 50 15's if I remember the right size... Started with some Toyo T1S' that came with it, then went with the Hankooks. Boss Frog Rollbar (also left in stock seatbelt tower mount), MOMO Corse buckets, Racing Beat Type II Nose, Simpson design flush rear bumper, Garage Vary Nostalgia rear panel,

The good stuff:
BRP Coldside Supercharger (Jackson Racing M45), Racing Beat Powerpulse header, highflow cat, Dual feed fuel rail, 70mm McIntosh throttlebody, Hondata Phenolic spacer gasket for intake manifold, Monsterflow "Cone" Filter, BEGI Rising Rate fuel pressure regulator. NO engine management, NO timing/spark control, dyno'ed at 162 whp on stock fuel injectors and fuel pump.

So far this autocross season I've placed 1st, 3rd, 1st, and 1st in an enduro cross event we did the next day. Last season I was horrible (my first time ever autocrossing, and I was on bald tires at the time) , and for some reason this time something clicked and I'm doing pretty damned decent.

My motor has just started burning oil, and my oil pressure fluctuates sometimes when I'm boosting, so I'm thinking my rings are going, so I sourced a built 323 1.8 in Canada, that I'm having shipped down here, with a turbo kit included.

To be installed: Goodwin Racing Big Brake Kit, Megasquirt PnP, NRG QR and shorty hub and adapter, bigger injectors, Torsen Diff., and Energy Suspension Hyperflex Master kit. I need to get some new tires soon too, and thinking of going with some Yokohama S-Drives (have a friend at Tire Kingdom).

My girlfriend's '92 is almost completely stock, with just a cone filter, stock replacement clutch, and a shaved stock flywheel (12 lbs now instead of almost 20! ), and the Tsudo catback exhaust off ebay. She's usually last as far as times of the day go, but she has fun, and she gets better every time, and that's what counts

-meaty

[ls six]

Well sadly I wont be making the first race of the season on the 30th.

I still cant get the locking lugnuts off the car (I lost the key) and I cant go racing untill I address the brakes.

I tried everything I could think of the past few weeks I even had the machine shop weld nuts to the lugs but they came right off. No penitration into the lugs at all. These things are indestructible.

Next I'm drilling the bastards. They'll come this time even if I have to drill the studs out.

[deadmeat]

have you tried a locksmith?

-meaty

[Tem]

Originally Posted by ls six

Well sadly I wont be making the first race of the season on the 30th.

I still cant get the locking lugnuts off the car (I lost the key) and I cant go racing untill I address the brakes.

I tried everything I could think of the past few weeks I even had the machine shop weld nuts to the lugs but they came right off. No penitration into the lugs at all. These things are indestructible.

Next I'm drilling the bastards. They'll come this time even if I have to drill the studs out.

what kind of key does it use? like an acctual key?

[scottycamaroz28]

Originally Posted by miatatude

And here's why I decided to get my husband an autox car:



That's him sleeping in my car at one of my events!

ha ha i just saw this pic of me sleeping in wifes car @ an event. i am her pit crew so i just got done changing the tires. i have a camaro but tires r too expensive to autox on. now i have the 6 and parts r alot cheaper along with gas and insur. this might b her next year

[Tem]

Originally Posted by scottycamaroz28

ha ha i just saw this pic of me sleeping in wifes car @ an event. i am her pit crew so i just got done changing the tires. i have a camaro but tires r too expensive to autox on. now i have the 6 and parts r alot cheaper along with gas and insur. this might b her next year

my 6's tires cost 1200 for the set of 4 =/ and you call them cheaP!? lol btw the way I drive I need to look for cheaper tires... what brand do you get?