replaced my clutch and took the car to the track

[ademan]

well i finally replace my clutch , drive the car for 5 days for break in and took it to the track on friday night, i do have a misfire i still need to fix, also the car had a leak somewhere on the intake. but i did get 2 decent pass, but i do my vaf on the last 3rd run due to the car running too rich and nitrous backfire.

video

YouTube - Track run on friday aug 22 2008

[Mike 94PGT]

Is this the same car that you say beat a 365whp C5 Corvette and turbo KLZE? Now that you've got no clutch slippage and are getting some good runs it's running 13.7s and 100.xx ... admirable and certainly quick for an MX6 but hardly what a 365whp Corvette will run.

Can you explain?

[ademan]

Originally Posted by Mike 94PGT

Is this the same car that you say beat a 365whp C5 Corvette and turbo KLZE? Now that you've got no clutch slippage and are getting some good runs it's running 13.7s and 100.xx ... admirable and certainly quick for an MX6 but hardly what a 365whp Corvette will run.

Can you explain?

explain what? did you missed the part that the car wasnt running right, i was trapping 85-86mph in the 1/8th before, and after the clutch install, im only trapping 80mph, also i have a really bad misfire on idle, turn out the #1 and 2 injector seal leaking, also the cap and rotor is fried, the car also blow up at the track that day running sooo rich. the car should be trapping 107-up noyt 102mph, felt really weak.

[Mike 94PGT]

explain what

Explain how this is the same car that's been beating/hanging with much higher HP cars when, after you get the slipping clutch done, it's still "only" running high 13s.

Not that high 13s is anything to be ashamed of...that's a very respectable ET...

did you missed the part that the car wasnt running right

What I read was that you got a couple of "decent" passes in and nothing about it feeling "really weak."

Okay then:

(a) Why race when it running like [shizzle]? You know it's got vacuum leaks and/or injector seal leaks, marginal ignition with a bad misfire and you're taking it to the track and spraying?

(b) You said you got two "decent" passes out of it and didn't say anything about it feeling "really weak." Were they decent passes or weren't they?

(c) Why post a video of it when it's in less than nominal form?

[ademan]

Originally Posted by Mike 94PGT

Explain how this is the same car that's been beating/hanging with much higher HP cars when, after you get the slipping clutch done, it's still "only" running high 13s.

Not that high 13s is anything to be ashamed of...that's a very respectable ET...



What I read was that you got a couple of "decent" passes in and nothing about it feeling "really weak."

Okay then:

(a) Why race when it running like [shizzle]? You know it's got vacuum leaks and/or injector seal leaks, marginal ignition with a bad misfire and you're taking it to the track and spraying?

(b) You said you got two "decent" passes out of it and didn't say anything about it feeling "really weak." Were they decent passes or weren't they?

(c) Why post a video of it when it's in less than nominal form?

its called test and tune, and thats what im doing, the car is weak on top but still quick regardless. but just backire a lot. I also post video of my car whether good or bad. it doesnt matter, the car lost 6mph in just 1/8th but we try to figure what the problem is at the track but we couldnt, but since i already paid that hefty fee to race, guess what im racing.
also yeh i said 2 decent pass, to me a 13.7 and 13.8 sec pass is not slow by any mean expecially for a 200K miles stock motor.

again i will work all the bogs out eventually and will make a good pass without any problem.

[Mazda Carnage]

Originally Posted by Mike 94PGT

Explain how this is the same car that's been beating/hanging with much higher HP cars when, after you get the slipping clutch done, it's still "only" running high 13s.

Not that high 13s is anything to be ashamed of...that's a very respectable ET...

You are asking him to explain apples and oranges.

Remember all the kills Ademan posted about where on a role on the street.
1/4 mile times are irrelevant on the street.
1st Gen Mx6's don't launch very well.
Is he spraying in 1st of the line?

My buddy's wife's STI runs a 13.2 1/4 at 101mph, my mx6 runs a 13.7 at 107mph, I spin down the track well into 3rd gear and the subaru launches like a rocket. But on a role in 3rd against the STI I kill it.
Last weekend on my way to the track there was a 3rd gen RX7 right hand drive, we raced on the highway, I expected to take him but to my surprise he was right next to me through 3rd, 4th and into 5th he took about 15 feet on me, I started pulling on him in 5th (only gear it will hold 20 lbs in) then he let off so I did to (To little to late). I was amazed at how fast the Rx7 was and he was pretty surprised at how fast the Mx6 was and came over to talk. The RX7 has a chev LT2 v8 crammed under the hood and NOS, it ran 12.7 without hitting the nos on a bad launch.

So my Mx6 will run a 13.7 1/4 but can keep up with much faster cars on a role . An AWD running a 13.2 1/4 has trouble keeping up with Rob's 89 5 door 626 GT that runs 14.6 at 96 mph with wheel spin, bone stock (including exhaust) chipped and 14lbs boost.

Rear wheel drives launch much better then F2's (1st gens), even an N/A tuned 5speed bone stock can be a pain to launch without spinning (Torque comes on early in the rpm band).

--------------

Seriously, the guy has a couple moded F2T's and the F2 on nos, if they where not fast he wouldn't keep putting time and money into them. And if the N/a on Nos wasn't fast then he'd most likely be driving one of the turbo charged cars.

He even posts video's of some of the races (not the best filming) and still people call B.S.

If he was lying about his kills, then he would probably make up better times for track runs then 13.7.

------------------

Me and Rob (Mazz Carnage Racing) sponsor a guy (Jean Marc) who races dirt oval tracks, he races a N/A tuned 2.2l 12v Sohc 88 MX6, we have donated two so far.
He races Eidlewess and Cornwall tracks, he comes in first alot of the time and dominates in cornwall (shorter oval), he is racing against Honda's with J-spec motors and engine work, VR6's, H22's, and a 2nd gen mx6 with a KLZE, all these cars are running performance suspension but not Jean Mark, he's cheap and runs factory struts and spring he gets from us.
But somehow his car is as fast as all the rest and much faster through the corners (low rpm torque that caries to redline).

Honestly when we met the guy and he told us about the success he was having with the car and race stories, he got the nick name "Liar Liar", (After donating the first car I still wouldn't let him put my shop name on it), then the trophies started rolling in, we went to watch a race here and there..... This year he's doing even better then last year with the 2nd 88mx6 we gave him.

So you never know.

[fredio54]

Carnage, maybe they call BS because of his ricer LEDs and bad attitude?

fwd is no excuse for a bad launch. Get better tyres and suspension setup if it is.

Let's see that low 13 to high 12 please.

[ademan]

Originally Posted by fredio54

Carnage, maybe they call BS because of his ricer LEDs and bad attitude?

fwd is no excuse for a bad launch. Get better tyres and suspension setup if it is.

Let's see that low 13 to high 12 please.

bad attitude?
why? because a lot of people kiss your ass and i dont, get over yourself man and stay away from my thread fred. by the way; let see you do better.

[Mike 94PGT]

Originally Posted by Mazda Carnage

You are asking him to explain apples and oranges.

Remember all the kills Ademan posted about where on a role on the street.
1/4 mile times are irrelevant on the street.
1st Gen Mx6's don't launch very well.
Is he spraying in 1st of the line?

My buddy's wife's STI runs a 13.2 1/4 at 101mph, my mx6 runs a 13.7 at 107mph, I spin down the track well into 3rd gear and the subaru launches like a rocket. But on a role in 3rd against the STI I kill it.

You've just explained the problem: Cars with low ETs but low MPH are generally those that launch like a Top Fueler but have modest HP. Cars that have high ETs and high MPH are typically traction limited but have scads of power. High 13s and 100MPH shows a car that's not particularly stellar in either category. Again, high 13s and 100MPH is very respectable but I don't see it hanging with Corvettes -- from a dig nor from a roll -- turbo ZEs, FDs and the like.

Ademan says he's testing and tuning which may well be the case but then I don't understand why the video was posted at all and why he indicated that the passes were "decent."

He even posts video's of some of the races (not the best filming) and still people call B.S.

I've lurked and read some of these and I think the problem is inconsistency. On the one hand we have this clutch-slipping beast walking Corvettes and turbo ZEs then, after the clutch is done, it runs high 13s and 100MPH on the track on a decent run, on a night cut short by a N2O backfire. Then we hear it's backfiring and running rich etc etc

We've seen the vids of this car and the claims but is there actually a verified timeslip in existence of a 12-second run by this car in the quarter mile?

So you never know.

Indeed. I'm simply trying to understand how this is the same car that's said to have beaten or at least hung with some really fast iron.

Given the controversy that exists on this issue, I don't know that posting a vid of a handful of high-13-sec runs help clear up the conundrum in the least.

[ademan]

mike 94pgt, you still forget the fact that i dont care about the controversy, the fact is : i have raced a lot of people/cars and win/lose, i really care less about the car really, i have much faster cars, i only took on the project just to prove a lot of people wrong about n/a f2 ability. i have run 8.6@86mph in the 1/8th. which will equate to a low 13 high 12s with a ~107mph, but it seems that everytime i go to this specific track, i always run problems. if you looking for prove, the car already proved itself.

[Mazda Carnage]

Originally Posted by fredio54

fwd is no excuse for a bad launch. Get better tyres and suspension setup if it is.

I agree and disagree.
I run 225/50 16 falcon Fk-401 and cant go much wider, I ran 205 50 15 Hankook Gr or Gs-2's, I have 235/45 17 Yokohama Advan's from a lancer Evo 8 MR on my 88 and all spin like mad in first and second, and I don't mean just from a dig, if I hammer it at 40 or 50 km/h in second the wheels spin until I shift.
So I came to terms with and accept that my Mx6's might be fast but suck from a launch and have a pretty bad 1st and 2nd gearing, I have (I believe) the biggest/stiffest after market sway bars available on both cars.....

I did try however to improve my track times by purchasing some used slicks, Yokohama A-005 250/590 r15's for 120$ for the both, then I found some used Jeep Cherokee winter rims at a junk yard, needed 8" wide and a rwd offset, had to buy all 4 for 100$ :


After searching online with no results on what PSI to run and if the require tubes , I called Yokohama USA and they directed to yokohama tire teck devision who then had me call the team of guys that travel the US monitoring the teams that run 005's... Anyway it turns out that the ones I bought where medium compound (road course) and not soft, I was told to run 12 - 18 Lbs hot in them and try to get them to 200 degrees before racing (crap).

Well no matter how long I stagged and how low I put the pressure I still spun until 3rd gear and ran a bunch more 13.7's (same as when I did a 20 second burnout with the Falcons, probably 2000 km worth of hard driven tire(one of the reasons I wanted slicks)).

Sooo I have two more 8" wide rims left and I am still searching for some used drag slicks but 25" hight is the biggest I can fit and everything I find is 26" and up.

But no matter what time I manage at the track the bottom line is that on street tires it spins allot, despite the fact it might run a 13.0 or 12.9 on slicks the car as a daily driver (reason I built them) on street tires right now is a 13.7 car thats lots of fun in 3rd, 4th and 5th.

Yesterday afternoon on my way to the shop I came across a new corvette, he was out for a rip, I followed, we went down some country style roads and the mountain road, a winding road with lots of fun corners. Basically from where I met him we did a 20 km circle back to where we started.
On the straight away when he punched it I notice he had instant power, he would pull away for 1/2 second and then I would keep up and start inching towards him. At the stop signs it was a different story, He'd hammer it while turning and by the time I'd get into second gear and start to spin he'd be gone I mean far, so I had to really push it into the first corner after each of the 3 stops we made to catch up and then go hard on the brakes, once we where moving I was on him the whole time, then about 1 1/2 km away from the shop my brakes had faded away and sadly I backed off (rear ending a new corvette or killing myself are not on my to do list) and waved him goodbye and putted back to the shop.
The only time my car would be a show against his would be side by side on the highway in 3rd, 4th and 5th (if I hold with anything in 3rd and 4th I take them in 5th (get 2-3 more pounds and holds it)) it is nice to see the look on peoples faces when you hang with them in an old I4 bucket but other then that the corvette was a superior car to mine.

[fredio54]

Let me put it this way, my best 60ft in my skyline was 2.5 or something (street tyres, worse on semi slick race tyres). Shwine and all the honda boys thump that every time.

For you Mr C I would suggest different boost in different gears. This is what OEMs do too, smart bunch they are. Rig a micro switch to the left action on the stick so that 1 and 2 are easier to use (note, lifting off can make you go faster). Consequence, tyres aren't molten come 3rd.

[defiler]

I run 225/50 16 falcon Fk-401 and cant go much wider, I ran 205 50 15 Hankook Gr or Gs-2's, I have 235/45 17 Yokohama Advan's from a lancer Evo 8 MR on my 88 and all spin like mad in first and second, and I don't mean just from a dig, if I hammer it at 40 or 50 km/h in second the wheels spin until I shift.

Then drop down in rim size and get some slicks. Street tires dont belong on the track.

Again, high 13s and 100MPH is very respectable but I don't see it hanging with Corvettes -- from a dig nor from a roll -- turbo ZEs, FDs and the like.

I've always said in these threads that the cars he races are driven by fools that dont know how to drive thier own cars. Im still convinced that it is still the case. A z06 or turbo ZE are going to have traction problems off the line too, but from a roll would be unstoppable compared to a n20'd LX.

[Turk]

I dont think a Z06 will have traction problems, for a new car they should have traction control. Any modifed car is going to have more issues then a powerful stock car.

Defiler you might as well say that street cars dont belong on the track either. I will be going to the quarter, with street tyres, but I wont be aiming for a good time. Trap speed is all im going for .

[fredio54]

Originally Posted by Turk

Defiler you might as well say that street cars dont belong on the track either. I will be going to the quarter, with street tyres, but I wont be aiming for a good time. Trap speed is all im going for .

Why not? I'll be doing the same, but aiming high! urr, I mean low? urr, you know what I mean.