A subject I have been thinking about much recently as I race through the streets, lots of bumps on the way, always trying to avoid, but the even the ones going slow as my ball bearings need replacement. I hear a loud rattle, similar to that of my previous car where the wheel popped out on a turn over a big pot hole.
This brings me to thinking of the weight on the front wheels and its relation to stress on the ball joints and suspension in general.
I have noticed that the center of the engine bay is leaning to the right of the vehicle by almost 30%
Wondering on others' views of ball joints / front suspension / weight distribution & compensation in relation to each other.
Last edited by TheMafia : 10-6-09 at 13:26.
Reason: gramatically retarted
Street racing is stupid but most of us are guilty of it or something similar but racing when you KNOW you car will fail is beyond stupid, this is why we need higher standards for the issuing of drivers liscences.
As for the rest of your post, it's complete garbage and nobody knows what your trying to ask.
96 MX-6 full exhaust A/C delete spoiler delete probe wheels and a turbo in the worx. 01 626 brake's98 626 sway bar Altima rear sway bar links.http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2934576
90 pontiac transam. 350 TPI motor new 24# injectors. Rebuilt trans. lots to come.
Street racing is stupid but most of us are guilty of it or something similar but racing when you KNOW you car will fail is beyond stupid, this is why we need higher standards for the issuing of drivers liscences.
As for the rest of your post, it's complete garbage and nobody knows what your trying to ask.
Its pretty simple mate.
In racing, when banking corners the weight and g's excerted on the individual wheels changes. I hope you understand that much.
My topic is focused on the front two wheels, and the added pressure of the engine, and more specifically the weight onto the right wheel. I hope you understand that, its not too difficult. I look at your response as very ironic, as the subject matter is easy to understand, and you call me stupid (several times??). Tool. I dont want to discuss this subject with you.
This is the strangest thread I have read in a while.
Mind you i wasnt in the most sober of states, but I was completely focused on that, as it makes me grind my teeth when i go over bumps. Its next on my list to get fixed, but for the time being...its nerve racking.
Edit: Previous repairs were welded, not sure where but thats what the mech. said. I haven't had the chance to lift it and take a look myself. I'm sitting in on the repair when it happens.
By "welded" it seems that your reffering to the balljoint having been replaced at some point and that it is moving around in the arm a bit. thats a common problem that should have been solved with welding. Just 2 or 3 spot welds should have insured that it never comes loose so i'd be leary of the welders skill if they didnt hold.
The single best solution is to replace the entire arm with a new one as the arms are by design not servicable except for the bushings.
As for the other part of your post you still dont make any sense, yess the engine adds weight and thus stress to the front of the car. The car was designed that way.
What do you mean by "The engine bay is leaning to the right by 30%" ?? That makes no sense at all.
96 MX-6 full exhaust A/C delete spoiler delete probe wheels and a turbo in the worx. 01 626 brake's98 626 sway bar Altima rear sway bar links.http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2934576
90 pontiac transam. 350 TPI motor new 24# injectors. Rebuilt trans. lots to come.
LS six, the problem with welding the ball joint to the control arm is that the ball joint is a metal ball surrounded in a plastic cup that's greased with or without a grease fitting.
The heat of welding can seriously compromise the plastic cup and ruin the ball joint, getting the welds to hold is easy and would take great incompetence to fail at. not melting the plastic inside the ball joint is the hard part.
Moog ball joint are the best solution, press them in and they also have a clamp to hold them in place, even if you can push them in by hand or by tapping them gently the clip will still hold them snug as long as there is no up and down play to begin with.
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I will say his post was ill phrased, but for the sake of benefit of doubt "as I race through the streets" could be an expression : I had allot of errands to run around town and spend the day in my car racing around. Notice he states "even the ones going slow..."
I don't know what your trying to say here I go through several sets of ball joins and bearing each year on any car I drive here that year, the freeze and thaw under the streets rips the pavement apart, overweight trucks in the spring press ruts in roads over time, the ultra wide wheel base the trucks have leave cars riding the edges of the hump and send them all over the road.
Due to freeze/thaw destruction of the road the roads are often under construction, in rural areas they keep these roads opened during construction...
Driving in Canada is brutal on a car at any speed.
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The Mafia (what do you work for the government?) if your engine is leaning to the passenger side your engine mount is shot.
If your worried about the weight imbalance under the hood for racing, remember to factor in the drivers weight on the lighter/transmission side of the engine bay.
If your racing with passenger your breaking every track rule your car is qualified to run on, if your racing on the street with passenger realize you will be criminally charged for any injuries that happens to them in any accident that occurs during the time you are racing weather your at fault or not .
If you want to impress someone with your car, drive down one side of a known highway when it's not busy, after awhile turn around (when practical) and go the other way, open the car up, show them what it can do, impress them, return to reasonable speeds and continue on your way, if your car is fast then they've had enough already (always faster from the passenger seat), if they want more they have a death wish or your car isn't that fast, either way they are trying to bring you down, don't fall for it.
Buying mods is more fun then paying fins, and a [shizzle]y life is better the doing time, speed smart.
My logic is that if the balljoint spent any amount of timr knocking around in the are the chances of a new joint fitting snugly is small, the control arm is made out of relatively soft mild steel and any play between it and the joint body can easily knock it out of round.
It's too bad no one offers new arms with Moog joints and better than stock bushings (harder rubber, poly or different offset options) cause getting new arms with all tha parts you want can get expensive.
I totaly agree with "speed responsibly" I try not to get involved in anything stupid where someone besides me can get hurt , where my life is in someone elses hands or I'm likely to get caught.
96 MX-6 full exhaust A/C delete spoiler delete probe wheels and a turbo in the worx. 01 626 brake's98 626 sway bar Altima rear sway bar links.http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2934576
90 pontiac transam. 350 TPI motor new 24# injectors. Rebuilt trans. lots to come.
The front suspension is NOT symmetrical - and combined with the weight of the driver, the longer drive path from the transmission (the passenger side is nearly twice as far away from the diff), the use of an intermediate shaft, and etc.... any additional torsion forces over the right wheel are nearly nullified. simple up and down motion related to extra weight is also meaningless in terms of wearing one ball joint more quickly than another. With a driver in it - IIRC the mx6 (ls) had a 52% lateral balance biased toward the drivers side (everyone mentions a front to rear balance, but side to side is also important.. its also one of those factors that nearly every car maker has gotten down pat, since a vehicle with a significantly heavier left or right bias would be immensely dangerous.)
That said - if your ball joints or control arm bushings are even slightly loose - you should really consider replacing them. Too often have i seen someone slap on ebay springs, average lowering shocks, and still handle like crap - and worse in fact than a good conditioned stock vehicle with tight chassis to suspension connections.
Last edited by Goatcrapp : 10-7-09 at 17:29.
94 mx6 - you name it - I did it, came up with it, tried it and rejected it or just plain still have it. 93 mx3 - klze, i/h/e, rims and paint.. daily driver. 98 jeep GC - 5.9L with bolt ons, lifted, locked. 32x10.5 Goodyear MTR winter/ 30x9.5 bfg ta/ko summer
The front suspension is NOT symmetrical - and combined with the weight of the driver, the longer drive path from the transmission (the passenger side is nearly twice as far away from the diff), the use of an intermediate shaft, and etc.... any additional torsion forces over the right wheel are nearly nullified. simple up and down motion related to extra weight is also meaningless in terms of wearing one ball joint more quickly than another. With a driver in it - IIRC the mx6 (ls) had a 52% lateral balance biased toward the drivers side (everyone mentions a front to rear balance, but side to side is also important.. its also one of those factors that nearly every car maker has gotten down pat, since a vehicle with a significantly heavier left or right bias would be immensely dangerous.)
That said - if your ball joints or control arm bushings are even slightly loose - you should really consider replacing them. Too often have i seen someone slap on ebay springs, average lowering shocks, and still handle like crap - and worse in fact than a good conditioned stock vehicle with tight chassis to suspension connections.
Aaah, intelligence. Like a cool breeze on a hot day.
Strictly speaking the suspension IS symetrical, the loads placed on it are not (by a minor percentage as you noted) and the drivetrain while not symetrical mechanicaly dose a good job of distributing the various forces transmitted through it in a symetrical manner.
96 MX-6 full exhaust A/C delete spoiler delete probe wheels and a turbo in the worx. 01 626 brake's98 626 sway bar Altima rear sway bar links.http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2934576
90 pontiac transam. 350 TPI motor new 24# injectors. Rebuilt trans. lots to come.
But i have to agree with ls six, my mx-6 and my buddies mx-6 both have more weight on the right front tire. The engine is mount just of center to the right, on stock springs is apparent that the car leans towards the right.
Also apon acceleration I notice I have a lot more grip in the right right due to that fact. Under certain circumstances the car pulls to that side b/c the left gets more lift when the weight shifts.
I cannot wait until I fix up my syspension completely. First the ball joints, which are so loose I dont even want to drive the car hard! Next week or so i want to replace them. Question is....should I do the control arms too? or not worry about that. (Mazda Carnage posts has some good points to consider on that subject).
TheMafia, just because the engine is off center, and the car appears to lean to the right, and you have more traction on the right, does NOT mean that you have more weight there. In fact it's entirely possible that the exact opposite is true.
you don't have more weight there... torque steer on acceleration is a function of the unequal length driveshafts (you have an intermediate shaft AND an axle on that side)
as for your car leaning... well - frankly, i have to say its a suspension problem. I've been around the 2g mx6's since they was factory new, and i can assure you they did not lean.
anyway back to the issue - torque steer a problem that plagues all FWD vehicles, with myriad solutions including lateral dampeners, use of different differentials, etc. modern suspensions and transmissions have pushed the onset of torque steer much higher up, but in the early 90's 160lbs of torque was a lot for a period suspension to control.
94 mx6 - you name it - I did it, came up with it, tried it and rejected it or just plain still have it. 93 mx3 - klze, i/h/e, rims and paint.. daily driver. 98 jeep GC - 5.9L with bolt ons, lifted, locked. 32x10.5 Goodyear MTR winter/ 30x9.5 bfg ta/ko summer
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Racing on ball joints
98 626 sway bar Altima rear sway bar links.
