Mazda MX6 Vs Escort RS

[gareth231]

I had a series 1 r s turbo (c reg) orginally it was standard, and still felt much faster compared to the mx6, i then got it chipped etc and it was a monster (200bhp) and no mx6 would come close to it performance wise, thses cars run 14 sec runs (modded) on the 1/4 mile so these things do shift. Im no way saying the mx6 is c@@p performance wise as there not, but the rs is in a different league compared the mx6, and there also much lighter compared to a mx6. Modded or not the rs is a quicker car in my opion

[BeDlaM]

Hi gareth231

Emm this is something we on here get into very seldom about whos car is faster than whos, but i think you better read this

Mk 1 Escort RS 2000 Specification

Engine
4 cylinder in line. Cubic capacity 1993cc (121.6cu ins). Bore 90.82mm (3.58in) . Stroke 76.95mm (3.03in). Compression ratio 9.2:1. Power 100 PS (DIN) at 5750rpm. Torque 107lb/ft at 3750rpm. Single overhead camshaft belt driven. Overhead valves. Five main bearing crankshaft. Alloy sump, bolted to clutch housing

taken from
http://www.rsownersclub.co.uk/

now if you want to get your UNMODDED mk1 and come up to Glasgow i will gladly run along any road and wave as i go goodbye to you as i wander off into the distance.

now your modded Mk1 is a diff matter, if i wanted a faster car i would go get myself a N/A Supra (yes why not a TT Cause you can make a NA car faster and do it a lot cheaper) and then really leave your mk1 escort, we don't buy the 6 for speed we buy it cause it is a lovely looking car, the upgrades are just playing, Ask Dave what he is buying cuase he thinking prob might as well get something nice on the same lines as the 6 but faster .

Andy

[gareth231]

if you read the my post carefully i said i had a rs turbo ( Mk 3 escort 1985) not a mk1 escort, and the topic states rs turbo v`s mx6 so i gave my true opion on the 2 cars as i have owned both cars, and i know for a fact a rs turbo would destroy a mx6 and a modified 1 would wins hands down.

Also i got to disagree with your comment about:
if i wanted a faster car i would go get myself a N/A Supra (yes why not a TT Cause you can make a NA car faster and do it a lot cheaper)

With a turbo car you wind the boost to get more power out of it!! you dont start with exhausts filters etc that you do with a natural aspirated car. Tunning a turbo car is a lot easier, and cheaper! you get much bigger power hikes compared to the money you send doing a n.a engine.

I do agree with the looks of the mx6, they look great, and there a ace car.

[BeDlaM]

oK
I got a garage in perth who specialise in jap preformace cars and he tells me he will get plenty outta a NA supra by adding a nice big nos kit to the engine and save me 1,000 , even in the states a lot take the 2 turbos off and add one big turbo spools slower but at the top end it leaves a TT.

Oh and the spec on a MK3 turbo say you are wrong

Engine

The engine fitted to the RS Turbo is a 1600 CVH unit modified to suit the higher loads and the application of the turbocharger. Computerised fuel injection and engine management incorporating turbocharger boost control is also fitted.

The turbocharger increases the engines performance in the lower engine speed ranges which are primarily used under normal driving and therefore provides a very usable increase in power and torque.

CVH 1600 Turbocharged, intercooled - 132 BHP

and your topic in the post didn;t mention modded,

but alls good as i know i can kick the young fellas ass who fits my tyres and he has a MK3 RS .

[gareth231]

i do agree saying that nos is cheap, but when you compare the prices to refill the bottle every time its empty, and a bottle dosent last long, it doesnt work out much cheaper then a turbo, specially if the car was turboed in the 1st place. Also nos is far more risky to use than a turbo, as nos can kill an engine in seconds, if the fuel gets cut off, wrong mixture etc, and it also puts the engine under far more stress, and even more risky if you run a turbo and nos

[BeDlaM]

well gareth231

Thats the price you pay sometimes if you want to go fast ,

and now you have arrived in the civilised world or the 6 land lets hope we don't see one off them mad American kits on your car, that our dear American cousin's love so much and destroy the lines of a car which i wish my wife had .


Andy

[Mark 626GT]

Gareth, your notions of nos (if you are referring to generic nitrous systems rather than just one make) is a little misguided at best and the idea that nitrous puts more strain on an engine than a turbo does (assuming the fuel mixtures are correct) is a joke.

I am not saying your point about the RS is any less valid though

[gareth231]

Mark sorry your wrong as otherwise you would run nitrous all the time instead of short bursts, as short bursts are all an engine can take otherwise you would get engine faliure v quickly.

a turbo works different compared to nos, it runs on boost, more boost more power, nos runs by injecting a mixture into the engine, as soon as you inject the nos the engine is put under a great deal of strain , (hence the big power gains! )where a turbo builds boost up graduely so its not put under a high force straight away (gets built up graduely, and dont forget a turbo is spinning all the time)

[mop]

I think you two just need to get together and have an arm wrestle or something..

I'm pretty green when it comes to engines, but from what I've heard, nos is not really something that is naturally meant to go into the engine and does put more strain on the engine..

perhaps it's best if I just stay out of this though!!

[gareth231]

mop i feel the same as you, car manufacturers make turbo charged cars, as there proven and reliable, as otherwise they wouldnt sell them

What car maunufacture makes a car that runs on nos??


a arm wrestle does sound good though

[Mark 626GT]

MG for a start!

Don't start me on this; you obviously don't really have any knowledge other than what you have gathered from watching TF&TF.

Without picking out 3 of the other incorrect statement you managed to make in one post, I'll ask you this;

With your attitude towards nitrous, and the fine and factual documentary that had Vin Diesel in it, making other people think the same way, is it any wonder that car manufactures stay away?

[Maputosimon]

Grew up in Mozambique, from there to Macedonia, then Palestine, now here I am entering another war zone...

Erm...

A connected and armed Nitrous system is illegal in the streets of the UK.

Our engines can take more in the short term, but the consensus is that a 50 shot is the most one should 'regularly' use.

With the short, sharp increase in internal strain of N2O or the smoother build up of a Turbo, I would say that anyone who cares about their car and wants it to last will do a rebuild, strengthening the internals to a similar level, before going down either path.

Look at the US forums. They're braver about modding than us. A N2O install on average is much cheaper than a turbo system install. So why do so many more 2nd Gen owners have turbos than N2O? Just an observation.

I think the definitive answer to this can only be reached by first deciding how you want to look at the options: everyday driver, ricer, tuner, fun racer, serious racer, etc. Each of these stages will give you a different outlook on pros and cons of different power mods, as well as ongoing costs, both in money, and maintenance hours.

[Mark 626GT]

No, sorry I am going to have to put you straight on a few points cos I am sure it's just a few things that has put you on the wrong track so I will try to enlighten you.

Mark sorry your wrong as otherwise you would run nitrous all the time instead of short bursts, as short bursts are all an engine can take otherwise you would get engine failure v quickly.

If the mixtures of nitrous and fuel remain correct and you are not injecting too much in the first place then you could inject nitrous until the engine failed. This would happen (on most std common car engines) about 10 to 1000+ hours LONGER than if you hadn't injected any nitrous at all.

a turbo works different compared to nos,

Yes it does, it compresses air at the time of consumption, nitrous has been compressed at any earlier date ready for injection.

it runs on boost, more boost more power

Wanna take a guess how?
In case you didn't know the way to make more power in an engine is but putting in more fuel and more air, simple, that's it. All tuning methods have ways of doing this one way or another. In the case of a turbo in compressed the air so that in any given engine cycle there is more air in the cylinders and hence more OXYGEN, therefore the higher the boost the more air and thus oxygen (their are exceptions that I will come to in a min). An ECU detects boost and oxygen levels and adds fuel accordingly and hence more power.

Their are problems to this kind of tuning however, increasing boost increases the pressure in the inside of your engine, increase it too far and things will go pop and that's not even taking the added power the engine will make into consideration. You can increase the power you engine makes by increasing the compression of the engine however their is a limit before things go pop again and fitting a turbo often means lowering the compression of an engine just because of the combined effect it will have even on moderate boost pressures.
Increasing the pressure inside the engine puts excess strain and increases wear, period.
Another problem with turbos (this goes for superchargers too) is that is you increase boost you increase heat. Heat usually has a detrimental affect on engines too but also the heat from the compression of the air heats the air and warmer air is less dense meaning it has less oxygen in it. That's when you have to look to bigger intercoolers in an attempt to cool the air a little so that you don't get a power loss. Another result of increased cylinder heat is pre ignition, this is were fuel and air mixtures ignite before its time which can result in serious engine damage as well as detonation, you don't want that!

Nitrous makes power in the engine in the same way as all other tuning by getting more oxygen and fuel in the cylinders and just to remind you nitrous oxide is not a fuel and is not combustible in normal circumstances. All nitrous oxide is a pure form of OUR atmosphere i.e. 73% nitrogen and 21% oxygen (I am going from memory but the point is still valid) plus other gasses that don't have any significant bearing on the combustion cycle. Nitrous oxide, or N2O is two parts nitrogen and one part oxygen or by atomic weight about 77%N and 33%O, which means that all you are doing is injecting more naturally occurring atmosphere into the engine but because of weight you are getting more oxygen without loading the engine all the extra boost.
Just like a turbo the process of compressing this 'pure air' generates a lot of heat but as you do it (or rather the air products manufacturer) in advance it has time to cool down again in the bottle. This has a major advantage because the gas is pressurised to over 750psi in the bottle at which pressures it is actually a liquid meaning that when you inject the liquid and it starts to expand the opposite happens to compression and it cools down significantly, taking energy from any other surrounding molecules in an attempt to get some heat for expansion. This means nitrous comes out around -128 deg F thus cooling the intake air that in turn makes that denser too. N2O separates at around 550 degrees and so the oxygen only becomes available to combusts the fuel at these temps, which means cylinder temps whereas using nitrous on a fire would have the same affect as CO2.

Turbos and nitrous together is perfect because of the charge cooling affect nitrous has on the charge entering the engine. An example, 25 bhp jets may only make 15 bhp extra in an N/A engine but 25 bhp on a turbo engine often makes up to double that so you could see an increase of 50bhp at the wheels. The reason for this is because turbos aren't as efficient as they could be due to the heating affect reducing oxygen so when you inject nitrous it actually makes the turbo more efficient meaning it's your turbo that is producing that extra 25 to 30 whatever extra bhp.

nos runs by injecting a mixture into the engine, as soon as you inject the nos the engine is put under a great deal of strain , (hence the big power gains!

The power gain is from injecting more nitrous and fuel but when you inject the nitrous determines how much the engine (or cylinder) is trying to 'process'. An example would be if you injected a 50 bhp shot (in one hit F&TF style) at 2,000 revs there would be more nitrous and fuel in the cylinder at that moment than at say 5,000 revs. A CAR CAN ALWAYS TAKE MORE NITROUS AT HIGHER REVS THAN LOWER! I will come back to that.

where a turbo builds boost up gradually so its not put under a high force straight away

Yes true, although in some cases a little too slowly and hence turbo lag. Remember a supercharger has no lag but doesn't kill engines because it builds it boost as engines revs rise and the key to reliable nitrous is to do the same thing.
In the world of nitrous you have digital controllers that do the job of moderating the power by pulsing the solenoids so the more nitrous is injected over time so that the revs are higher when the full amount is sprayed (remember this only means the same particle density exists in the cylinders as they fill and empty faster).

and don’t forget a turbo is spinning all the time

True that means you are using more petrol when you don't need it

Another tip reliable running is not to get an American system, they are the reason nitrous has a bad name and most people assume it will kill your car. They usually do due to solenoids failing meaning the mixture becomes wrong and then death; they are not designed to be PWM pulsed either. Get a wet kit that inject extra fuel at the same time mixtures can be controlled easier and you don't have to worry about injector capacity (only your fuel pump, lol )


Sorry if it seemed if I was having a go at you earlier but I knew that this reply was going to take an hour or two when I should have really being going to sleep and I was supposed to getting up at 6 o'clock and it's now 10 to 3 I don't fancy my chances.
Anyway I am crap at arm wrestling and you would win so it seemed the only way to avoid getting into a bout.

Anyway I am off to sleep, if you want anything clarifying then just ask as no doubt I have missed bits out as I am now very tired.

Mark

[Mark 626GT]

Oh no at this rate I will be up all night lol

A connected and armed Nitrous system is illegal in the streets of the UK.

That simply isn't true, it was even in last months (this?) Revs so it must be ok
Seriously you are not braking any UK laws by having one fitted in the manner in which you describe, it's just a case of being insured like anything.

Most Yanks have turbo conversions cos their nitrous systems suck, it's not the fault of the liquid just the delivery systems of most makers (I use the term loosely)

I wouldn't like to use more than 50 on our engine in one shot and if you don't go progressive I wouldn't go past 25 just in case you inject too far down the rev range. Beside it would be pointless as you wouldn't get any traction or your clutch would struggle.
With a progressive I would say as long as your engine is in good nick 100 bhp shouldn't be a problem, 125 at a push before upgrading head gaskets and head bolts will be required although your ignition will need upgrading before then, lol

[gareth231]

Mark sorry but i do know what im on about..... look at forum on any sort of owners club and they say the same sort thing fitting nos to a car will where an engine out quicker than without it ( what ever type of nitrous you use, wet, dry) getting say an extra 50 bhp without strengthening nothing else is asking for trouble, as at the end of the day the engine wasnt meant to run that sort of power in the 1st place! and ideally a engine needs to be strengthened before u run nos

A turbo and nos isnt v good, as your running even ,more a leaner mixture, so fueling needs to be perfect or otherwise its going to be lean as f""k and good bye engine.. When im sayin turbo cars i was on about say scoobys etc not turbo conversion kits for the mx6

Most turbo cars can run more boost, or need an uprated headgasket and simply using a bigger intercooler helps to reduce air intake temps!


Everyone has there own opions on nos some people like it and others dont! we could argue all nite of pros and cons @-