Air Induction Kit - Fitting - Page 2

**Einstein** · 8-19-08, 12:07

mine was virtually on the floor.. (in fact the end of the filter scraped the road)

Never had a problem, but did take it off in the winter, and put the filter on the end of the VAF..

John

**kenholland** · 8-23-08, 5:04

There was one guy who hydrolocked his engine though (Chastiser?) so do NOT try to go through deep puddles or floods.

willfinch36 · 8-26-08, 5:00

thanks, very good write up! im looking at fitting one of these

antelope · 9-13-08, 14:09

This may be a stupid question, but I'm new to this and am just trying to give my 6 a little more spark by beginning at the sbeginning, ie a cai. My question is...if cai's need their intake situated so that they receive cold air, whow is this different from the standard setup where that big plastic cowling over the radiator is already receiging cool air away from the engine bay? The CAI's that I see either have the intake down the side of the engine below the distributor, or way down at the bottom whre they're going to get soaked every time you hit a puddle, or there isn't a pipe at all and the filter just sits where the box currently is [K&N]. I'm confused.

**Oddball** · 9-13-08, 14:44

The CAI debate is always running.

Yes the stock setup also draws its air from outside, in fact you could say its ram fed due to air being forced into the intake. But the ducting sits ontop of one very very hot radiator, and so heats the air as it enters, of which is something you dont really want to do.

Soooo.. the CAI removes this heating effect, by not routing above the radiator, gives the airflow a more direct approach instead of filling a box and then being draw again, and drops down to the splash pan at the bottom of the engine bay so that the air drawn in is cold. Yes it gets splashed, yes it gets wet, but nothing to worry about, unless of course you manage to submerge it, and we dont want no cpt nemo's driving 6's with CAI's now do we. So stay away from ponds, lakes, and vast amounts of water.

As for benefit to the engine.. this has been tackled a number of times, especially the air temp going in. Some research shows little to no change in air temp, some do.

For many, the thought that the less restrictive piping and routing, combined with cold air from outside the engine bay, must help and assist the engine, plus keep the air temp down.

Oh.. and the induction sound

Paul.

**Einstein** · 9-13-08, 16:31

Main benefits are a less restrictive filter.... and as it's open, you get a nice sound from it.

Obviously there is a heat issue, as under bonnet temperatures are high, hence the CAI pipe.

John

antelope · 9-13-08, 18:55

ok, tks. It sems to me that any position behind the radiator and not low, is warm, and any position low carries too high a risk of submersion - I live in slightly hilly countryside and occasionaly have to ford a flood. SO, the only remaining option would seem to be that K&N filter assembly up top where the air filter box should be, and perhaps something to improve fuel flow?...does anyone have any views or experience on.of this little gizmo: FSE POWER BOOST VALVE MAZDA 323/MX3/MX5/MX6/XEDOS on eBay, also, Lights Lighting Accessories, Car Tuning Styling, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 10-Oct-08 13:24:49 BST)

antelope · 9-13-08, 19:00

Incidentally, Oddball, does the air really have time to warm up whilst whooshing through the conventional inlet? It doesn't exactly hang around over the radiator. Although I suppose the inner cavity might warm up...

**N0DDY** · 9-13-08, 20:49

Could you not insulate the black plastic air feed intake thingy? Would that make a difference?

**Oddball** · 9-13-08, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by antelope

ok, tks. It sems to me that any position behind the radiator and not low, is warm, and any position low carries too high a risk of submersion - I live in slightly hilly countryside and occasionaly have to ford a flood. SO, the only remaining option would seem to be that K&N filter assembly up top where the air filter box should be, and perhaps something to improve fuel flow?...does anyone have any views or experience on.of this little gizmo: FSE POWER BOOST VALVE MAZDA 323/MX3/MX5/MX6/XEDOS on eBay, also, Lights Lighting Accessories, Car Tuning Styling, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 10-Oct-08 13:24:49 BST)

Keeping a steady fuel pressure is good, and to be honest, just disconecting the vac pipe from the FPR on the fuel rail should give you 37-46 PSI.. with the vac line attached, it varies between 30-38psi, so for the cost of ..zero.. try it.
Also many people swear by the std airflow setup, and run a K&N panel filter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by antelope

Incidentally, Oddball, does the air really have time to warm up whilst whooshing through the conventional inlet? It doesn't exactly hang around over the radiator. Although I suppose the inner cavity might warm up...

Not only is the ducting being heated, but the airbox also. Now you could say that when ever you get back from a long run and pop the bonnet and quickly feel the temp of the CAI pipe or std duct, its not hot.. but who's to say the reason its not hot is because the air flowing through it is removing the heat... just like a radiator. Just because the pipe is cool, does not mean its not soaking heat, and the air flowing through it, is removing that heat.
Now look at an intercooler on a turbo charged car, same principle, but reversed... superheated air is being forced through a radiator (intercooler) at very high speed, but it still has tiome to be cooled as it passes through it.

Confused, you will be ,, tune in next week for the next episode of ....

antelope · 9-14-08, 6:09

OK, what about this...if adding, say, a K&N flat filter into the existing airbox assembly 'greatly improves airflow', providing greater volumes of air into the engine, doesn't this simply make the engine run lean? [and therefore presumably, hot]. Same must apply to any mod that increases airflow, surely. Hence my interest in the gizmo linked to in my last post that appears to increase fuel flow [which might compensate for the increased airflow] whenever the engine is loaded.
Or does that mysterious little robot called an ECU take care of all this and I'm just making it all to complicated?
(typos edited)

**Oddball** · 9-14-08, 6:32

yes and yes kind of.

Coming out of the back of the airfilter box is the VAF, of which then the rubber elbow intake pipe connects, which then goes to the Throttle body. This measures the amount of air being DRAWN in by the ENGINE... Remember this is not a turbo engine, the air has to be sucked in by the engine, and so making that process easier to do helps it, by means of a free flowing air filter, or piping etc. we are not forcing in more air, mearly helping the engine do its job. The ecu decides how long the injectors need to be kept open to create the correct mix.
The std FPR, as i mentioned above, gives a variable 30-37psi of pressure. As it works off manifold vacuum, at lower revs you have lots of vacuum, and so it opens the FPR more and gives say 30 psi... when you hit the top revs, there is no vacuum in a manifold, and so the valve closes more and gives you 37 psi max to cope with the amount of time the injectors are spending open and ensuring they deliver enought fuel.
By removing that vac pipe you are going to give a pressure higher than the default settings at high revs, only now at all times. So in fact you may find you run rich on the lower rev range. 37-46 psi gives you a 2.5-3 bar fuel pressure, of which should be enough for a normally asperated engine.

Paul.

**Einstein** · 9-14-08, 6:37

As Paul says, the ECU controls it all...

It takes readings from the VAF, and O2 sensors and will control the injectors to give precisely the right amount of fuel...

John

nasher · 9-17-08, 15:22

Hi

Just like to pick up on one point earlier. If the standard set up is giving a slight "ram air" flow through the system, has anyone tried to fit a Viper kit on and taken the air feed from say behind the fog lamps, or in front of the radiator using a CAI cone?
I know the original vipers are expensive, but the principle could be replicated using the original air box, k&n pannel filter and a sealed CAI pipe to a different location for the air feed?

Any thoughts?

8-23-08, 5:04	#17 (permalink)
kenholland Ex-Mod Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Dorset, UK iTrader: (0)	There was one guy who hydrolocked his engine though (Chastiser?) so do NOT try to go through deep puddles or floods.
	Ken

9-13-08, 14:09	#19 (permalink)
antelope Join Date: May 2006 Location: Stratford upon Avon, UK iTrader: (0)	errr...but This may be a stupid question, but I'm new to this and am just trying to give my 6 a little more spark by beginning at the sbeginning, ie a cai. My question is...if cai's need their intake situated so that they receive cold air, whow is this different from the standard setup where that big plastic cowling over the radiator is already receiging cool air away from the engine bay? The CAI's that I see either have the intake down the side of the engine below the distributor, or way down at the bottom whre they're going to get soaked every time you hit a puddle, or there isn't a pipe at all and the filter just sits where the box currently is [K&N]. I'm confused.
	David

9-13-08, 14:44	#20 (permalink)
Oddball Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: kent, UK Age: 40 iTrader: (3)	The CAI debate is always running. Yes the stock setup also draws its air from outside, in fact you could say its ram fed due to air being forced into the intake. But the ducting sits ontop of one very very hot radiator, and so heats the air as it enters, of which is something you dont really want to do. Soooo.. the CAI removes this heating effect, by not routing above the radiator, gives the airflow a more direct approach instead of filling a box and then being draw again, and drops down to the splash pan at the bottom of the engine bay so that the air drawn in is cold. Yes it gets splashed, yes it gets wet, but nothing to worry about, unless of course you manage to submerge it, and we dont want no cpt nemo's driving 6's with CAI's now do we. So stay away from ponds, lakes, and vast amounts of water. As for benefit to the engine.. this has been tackled a number of times, especially the air temp going in. Some research shows little to no change in air temp, some do. For many, the thought that the less restrictive piping and routing, combined with cold air from outside the engine bay, must help and assist the engine, plus keep the air temp down. Oh.. and the induction sound Paul.
	Current Ride and new project- 93 Cavalier Turbo, running approx 260 at 12psi on phase one chips. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ R.I.P 92 2nd gen HYBRID - ZE cams, ZE inlet manifold, Mag leads, 65mm TB, CAI, Tokico shocks springs, SS headers, SS DE-cat, SS Scorpion cat back, 17in Wolfrace Osaka alloys - pics ==>My Album

9-13-08, 18:55	#22 (permalink)
antelope Join Date: May 2006 Location: Stratford upon Avon, UK iTrader: (0)	ok, tks. It sems to me that any position behind the radiator and not low, is warm, and any position low carries too high a risk of submersion - I live in slightly hilly countryside and occasionaly have to ford a flood. SO, the only remaining option would seem to be that K&N filter assembly up top where the air filter box should be, and perhaps something to improve fuel flow?...does anyone have any views or experience on.of this little gizmo: FSE POWER BOOST VALVE MAZDA 323/MX3/MX5/MX6/XEDOS on eBay, also, Lights Lighting Accessories, Car Tuning Styling, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 10-Oct-08 13:24:49 BST)
	David

9-13-08, 19:00	#23 (permalink)
antelope Join Date: May 2006 Location: Stratford upon Avon, UK iTrader: (0)	Incidentally, Oddball, does the air really have time to warm up whilst whooshing through the conventional inlet? It doesn't exactly hang around over the radiator. Although I suppose the inner cavity might warm up...
	David

8-26-08, 5:00	#18 (permalink)
willfinch36 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Suffolk,UK, UK iTrader: (0)	thanks, very good write up! im looking at fitting one of these

9-13-08, 20:49	#24 (permalink)
N0DDY Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, UK Age: 26 iTrader: (0)	Could you not insulate the black plastic air feed intake thingy? Would that make a difference?
	Pics of my Six! Norfolk Snowsports Catch me on Facebook

9-14-08, 6:09	#26 (permalink)
antelope Join Date: May 2006 Location: Stratford upon Avon, UK iTrader: (0)	OK, what about this...if adding, say, a K&N flat filter into the existing airbox assembly 'greatly improves airflow', providing greater volumes of air into the engine, doesn't this simply make the engine run lean? [and therefore presumably, hot]. Same must apply to any mod that increases airflow, surely. Hence my interest in the gizmo linked to in my last post that appears to increase fuel flow [which might compensate for the increased airflow] whenever the engine is loaded. Or does that mysterious little robot called an ECU take care of all this and I'm just making it all to complicated? (typos edited)
	David

9-14-08, 6:32	#27 (permalink)
Oddball Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: kent, UK Age: 40 iTrader: (3)	yes and yes kind of. Coming out of the back of the airfilter box is the VAF, of which then the rubber elbow intake pipe connects, which then goes to the Throttle body. This measures the amount of air being DRAWN in by the ENGINE... Remember this is not a turbo engine, the air has to be sucked in by the engine, and so making that process easier to do helps it, by means of a free flowing air filter, or piping etc. we are not forcing in more air, mearly helping the engine do its job. The ecu decides how long the injectors need to be kept open to create the correct mix. The std FPR, as i mentioned above, gives a variable 30-37psi of pressure. As it works off manifold vacuum, at lower revs you have lots of vacuum, and so it opens the FPR more and gives say 30 psi... when you hit the top revs, there is no vacuum in a manifold, and so the valve closes more and gives you 37 psi max to cope with the amount of time the injectors are spending open and ensuring they deliver enought fuel. By removing that vac pipe you are going to give a pressure higher than the default settings at high revs, only now at all times. So in fact you may find you run rich on the lower rev range. 37-46 psi gives you a 2.5-3 bar fuel pressure, of which should be enough for a normally asperated engine. Paul.
	Current Ride and new project- 93 Cavalier Turbo, running approx 260 at 12psi on phase one chips. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ R.I.P 92 2nd gen HYBRID - ZE cams, ZE inlet manifold, Mag leads, 65mm TB, CAI, Tokico shocks springs, SS headers, SS DE-cat, SS Scorpion cat back, 17in Wolfrace Osaka alloys - pics ==>My Album

9-17-08, 15:22	#29 (permalink)
nasher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gloucester, UK iTrader: (0)	Hi Just like to pick up on one point earlier. If the standard set up is giving a slight "ram air" flow through the system, has anyone tried to fit a Viper kit on and taken the air feed from say behind the fog lamps, or in front of the radiator using a CAI cone? I know the original vipers are expensive, but the principle could be replicated using the original air box, k&n pannel filter and a sealed CAI pipe to a different location for the air feed? Any thoughts?
	Just a Nice car