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Old 7-8-06, 6:24   #1 (permalink)
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I want a turbo set up and maybe KLZE (money waiting)

As the title says, I wanna get a turbo or supercharger sustem for my 6. If possible I fancy getting a KLZE lump to go with it. If I can't get a turbo or info on putting together a set-up then I will be going with NOS.

I have cash and man to fit, just need the stuff!!

PS, Justin (Oredroc4), I know you offered previously, but is it possible you could help with shipping of a Tokico set up to the UK please? Oh, and also any info on your turbo set up would be cool to

Thanks

Matt

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Old 7-8-06, 6:53   #2 (permalink)
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Looks like someone won the lottery!
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Old 7-8-06, 7:01   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N0DDY
Looks like someone won the lottery!
Hehe, I would be asking where I could get my DB9 for the best price if had won the Lottery @-

Matt

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Old 7-8-06, 8:14   #4 (permalink)
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I can't help with the turbo but if you need any help or advice on the nitrous kit then let me know.

I may be able to get you a little discount on a kit too.

I am thinking of adding Mark 626GT to my ignore list
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Old 7-8-06, 13:29   #5 (permalink)
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You dont want to turbo a KLZE - it defeats the object. The ZE is a higher compression engine than the standard KL. Therefore you will have to spend more money lowering the compression in an engine that only really benefits from having higher compression.

Use a standard UK block, and do a complete rebuild on it with forged internals etc. In doing this you can lower the compression to suitable levels for a decent amount of boost. Also, see about getting some reinforcement work on your bottom end if you are going for big boost.

Ben.
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Old 7-8-06, 16:09   #6 (permalink)
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just to add to whats just been said.... I have heard on several occasions that turbo charging a ZE is not adviseable..... cant remember the exact probs but something about it can seriously damage the engine in some way?
either way the source of the info was far more reliable than my memory!

.....and so i find myself asking, 'At what point does the 'end' start?!'
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Old 7-9-06, 6:30   #7 (permalink)
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No prob sending stuff over, just wait until i get back from the states

Also, if you want to DD a car, just boost the DE... just like me! im just going to make it my weekend car. Also you can go to junk yards and buy alot of after market parts for cheap. I just found my donor car sitting in the junkyard last week. Its a toyota corolla with an after market boost setup. Im getting the garrett t3, BOV, TIAL 38mm wastegate, IC and piping and FPR for 300! i already have the mani...

-justin

-Justin-
1995 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 Clone
-Boosted-
*Still Trollin' around
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Old 7-9-06, 6:38   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks for info

I have spent most of the weekend looking round various sites for info and am pretty much lost now. I will go to the garage tomorrow and find out what they suggest. I may well end up chickening out and going for NOS, seen this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nitrous-Oxide-...QQcmdZViewItem and it seems resonable

Matt

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Old 7-9-06, 15:55   #9 (permalink)
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Out of imterest how much boost were you thinking of running?

What is your power aim?

What time are you looking for on the drag strip?

I am thinking of adding Mark 626GT to my ignore list
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Old 7-9-06, 18:06   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark 626GT
Out of imterest how much boost were you thinking of running?

What is your power aim?

What time are you looking for on the drag strip?
Dunno, dunno and dunno Just wanted more power. Was really looking for something to give me a reliable powergain, however that maybe

Matt

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Old 7-10-06, 9:53   #11 (permalink)
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Yes its feasable, even with the KLZE, if you are a mad six lover with 3,4,5k in your pocket to burn, then the compression isn't really a barrier, more a limitation.
How much power can you usably put through a set of front wheels anyway?
Fuel management seems to be the big thing, and getting it to run right, but if you've got that kind of money, then your decent turbo mad conversion garage will sort that for you also!

Of course 4ishk will get you one of these
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/toyota-supra-t...QQcmdZViewItem


or one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-CELICA-...QQcmdZViewItem

Drive away Turbo's, no fuss, no mess.
Me, I'm a mad six lover, I'll be sticking with the Six, and keeping all the options for more oomph open.

'94 626 GT
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Old 7-11-06, 16:55   #12 (permalink)
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Sorry for the delay

The reason I asked those questions is that you really must have a power plan or aim when looking at fitting a turbo kit to a NA motor as this will dictate the things you need to do and very often which actual parts you need to buy.

That said their is nothing wrong with your attitude of wanting a bit more power but not really knowing what you are after. For instance, how do you know if you want 250bhp or 307bhp in your six when your only frame of reference is the 165 it came with?
It's easy to say the more power the better but anyone who has said that hasn't thought it through, like the post above points out too much power in the FWD 6 could be a really unpleasant experience.

For yourself I would say the answer right now if nitrous oxide. The beauty of this is the system comes with 25bhp jets, once your happy with that and no 'issues' have arisen you can look at upping the jets to 50bhp and running the same procedure. Normally around the 75bhp mark you start to run into a few problems, which you might of had to resolve before this point in a turbo setup, but with nitrous you can go back to the 50's until money and/or time permits you to make the necessary changes e.g. fuel pumps, ignition etc most popular and on up to whatever you like (pistons).

The other advantage to this is that it gives you the frame of reference to base any further power aims and can help with the issue of turboing in the future.

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Old 7-13-06, 14:20   #13 (permalink)
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To further what I said above their some options open to you.

Most people shy away from the idea of a Turbo / Supercharger and/or nitrous with a JSpec for a couple of reasons although the most popular is being told by other people you can't do it. This is obviously not true and maybe inspired by a little ZE jealousy and probably not a full understanding of whats involved. It does, however, mean some design considerations relating to det control and cooling but the fact is that at the end of the day similar energies are going on inside a ZE as a DE, it just means you need to run LESS boost to make the SAME power.

There is no magic in this, the higher compression ratio of the ZE means with a lower boost you have the same air in the cylinder at the end of the compression cycle e.g. for 275 bhp = 9.2 CR + 7 psi or 10.1 + 4 psi - BTW these figures are totally made up off the top of my head and are not meant to be factual just representative.
You can actually work out the difference if you can calculate the static versus combined or actual CR of the two however this wouldn't be totally correct due to difference in the inlet port design and different air resistances and more importantly cam profile differences.

This brings me nicely to a genuine down side of ZE boosting and that is the cams. They are typical high compression, high revving, high airflow cams (cams have nothing to do with CR or revs) with a much bigger overlap than the standard cams found in the DE engine. These give an improvement in normally aspirated engines by getting more oxygen into the cylinder come ignition stroke.
The way they do this is by increasing the time both intake and exhaust valves are open allowing the fresh air to 'flush' out the old burnt exhaust gas but by doing this you loose some inducted air out the exhaust before it has done anything. The idea is that you gain more by having more fresh cooler (denser) air and therefor more oxygen available for burning fuel (the key for making power) than you loose by 'giving away' air the engine has worked hard to get into it in the first place.

The problem in a turbo engine is the balance doesn't work out the same, the same process basically becomes a boost leak to the system and you loose more power than you gain (in most cases) by doing this.
The same is true when injecting nitrous oxide as it is just wasteful to piss nitrous out the exhaust before it has been worked, you might as well not have injected it and will have to inject more to compensate. The whole idea of nitrous injection is to get the most power from the least amount of nitrous (not fuel ) and this is one of the main reasons to pick one make of system over another (others being for a solenoid not to fail taking your engine with it).

What this means is the std (fuel efficient) cams are usually a better proposition for use in turbo-ed / nitrous applications.

Bottom line

I suppose if you were BUILDING an engine for turboing you would probably base it on an 03/DE and replace the pistons with forged ones of a lower CR, maybe around 8.5 and replace the con rods etal with ones that can withstand a higher compressive force under acceleration after ignition. The std ones have a tendency to bend due to their light weight design (the reason the engine can rev over 7K).

If you wanted a more lively, fun(er) car you can of course turbo with std internals being careful with the boost levels and being realistic with the power output but I wouldn't buy a ZE engine, with the extra costs associated, just to turbo. That said that doesn't mean if you have a car with the ZE in you can't turbo it, I would do the same and turbo it like the DE, I am just saying don't spend the extra money you will have to part with to get one.

If you wanted to nitrous your engine then again one with std internals will be fine (as long as the engine is 90% - same as turboing) and maybe putting lower compression pistons and stronger con rods in if you are after serious power later.
Again you can nitrous a ZE, the engine probably won't be able to take as much as a DE but the nett power output will be the same with less nitrous used. Result!

One thing to bear in mind is a low CR engine is a sluggish engine. Until your turbo creates positive pressure in your intake manifold (boost threshold) you will have a sluggish car (lower CR is less fuel efficient also).
So going too low isn't good and this leaves a problem regarding nitrous use as you are only 'on gas' for approx 0.1 to 0.01% of the time you are driving (roughly dependant on what you primarily use your car for) meaning you have a sluggish car for 99.90 or 99.99% of the time were a turbo may be 'on boost' for 20% or more of the time.

I suspect the best of both worlds for nitrous use, and therefore the most cost effective, is to go for a ZE bottom end with a 10.1:1 CR and fit 03/DE heads. This would make getting a ZE worth while as you have extra power all the time and the bonus of nitrous when you 'want' it
It would certainly be a different ZE03 Hybrid that NA users go for i.e. changing in a ZE top but I think if you are looking at nitrous this is probably the best way to go.


Humm, that's got me thinking. I think I'll build one, see how it goes and let you know.

P.S. If anyone wants any engines building to any particular specs, Hybrids and/or head work with or without nitrous etc let me know and I'll see what we can come up with.

P.P.S. Sorry for the long and maybe at times boring post . Hope it made sense most of the time as I have a tendency to go off on tangents

I am thinking of adding Mark 626GT to my ignore list
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Old 7-13-06, 14:50   #14 (permalink)
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That was a genuinely interesting and informative read, it's nice to actually learn something after a hard day arsing about at work . Thanks.
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Old 7-13-06, 17:18   #15 (permalink)
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Wow, thanks for that Mark!

Matt

Quietly modding!

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