You may or may have not seen my comments on BaBaKa's MOT pass today but have any of you come across this before?
The other matter we discussed was the clunk from the offside front when turning right quickly.
We looked at the front anti-roll bar again and on the offside there is a good 2-3" clearance from the chassis/front suspension but only a fraction of a clearance, if at all, on the nearside above the chassis/front suspension.
There were also visible signs that the ARB was touching the metal on the nearside and the whole bar had moved to the right again.
He reckons this could still be the cause of the clunk and possibly not the O/S/F Brake Caliper.
I spoke to Nick Clulee in Sheffield this evening and he has not come across an ARB like this before. He only gets the odd MX-6 these days but sees more 626's. So he will have a look at one if it comes in before I go there with BaBaKa.
The car handles 100%, stops in a straight line from well over 100 mph, tyre wear is spot on so there is nothing out in that respect.
The plot thickens eh?
Paula
PS. I have also checked the loud clunk that comes when I accelerate to the right out of the drive where I live and despite having my foot on the footbrake ( as advised by Nick Clulee), the noise is still there and I could not detect anything on the brake pedal.
I had an e-mail from my friend Claire in Wisconsin last night ( who is an expert on cars as her late father had a garage in Wausau WI, USA ) and she said:
" It is hard to say without seeing it. If I follow what you said, on one
side it is 2-3 inches below the frame and on the other, it is nearly
touching. That would certainly clunk. Now, is it supposed to be like
that? I doubt it. It sounds like it is bent on one side. I am not
familiar with the underside of your car, so I don't know where the ARB
mounts on to the front suspension. But I would think that something
would obviously look bent if there is that much difference.
Did you see this with the car in the air, wheels hanging free, or did
you look with both front wheels on the ground? ".
So I will take the car down to the MOT shop a.s.a.p, take fotos accordingly and get back to you.
I had an e-mail from my friend Claire in Wisconsin last night ( who is an expert on cars as her late father had a garage in Wausau WI, USA ) and she said:
" It is hard to say without seeing it. If I follow what you said, on one
side it is 2-3 inches below the frame and on the other, it is nearly
touching. That would certainly clunk. Now, is it supposed to be like
that? I doubt it. It sounds like it is bent on one side. I am not
familiar with the underside of your car, so I don't know where the ARB
mounts on to the front suspension. But I would think that something
would obviously look bent if there is that much difference.
Did you see this with the car in the air, wheels hanging free, or did
you look with both front wheels on the ground? ".
So I will take the car down to the MOT shop a.s.a.p, take fotos accordingly and get back to you.
Paula
sounds to me like she has hit the nail on the head chuck!
I popped into my local Mazda dealer just now and asked their Service Manager
on his thoughts after I showed him the fotos below.
He said that after large mileages ARB's can progress to one side although Mazdas are less prone to this than other cars.
The mounting rubbers can soften with age too and allow this to happen. ( I think that I got that correct . duh !! ).
Anyway he said get a hefty crowbar and lever the ARB to the left ( as in my case ) and that should do the trick.
I took the fotos at my MOT place at lunchtime and I will get them to fit the High Quality Front Caliper Anti Rattle Springs next week and maybe have to supply him with a hefty bar ....
So bit by bit we are eliminating the possible causes of my front end clunk.
I will still be going to see Nick Clulee in Sheffield later this month to get the pulley bearings fitted as I want a few days off in that neck of the woods and the moors are lovely at this time of year....
The first foto is of the offside section of the ARB and there is a good 3" clearance over the chassis as can be seen by the flash shadow. This was taken with the full weight of the car on the wheels and, of course, even with wheels hanging down, there is still good clearance.
Anti Roll Bar - Offside
This foto is of the nearside section of the ARB with the full weight of the car on it's wheels and the ARB is just resting on the chassis. With the wheels hanging down obviously, the ARB is 100% resting on the chassis.
Anti-Roll Bar - Nearside
Can't wait to next week and maybe get a clunk free BaBaKa ....
Paula
Quote:
Originally Posted by clivjoo
sounds to me like she has hit the nail on the head chuck!
Oh yes, here is a foto of Fliss the gorgeous 10 year old Border Collie that I am looking after at the moment. She was very patient waiting in the office at the MOT centre...
great pics paula, its a real gem of a problem you got there, so good you have catalogued it like this, its sure to help some one in the future. I am going to keep this in mind when I drop mine off tomorrow to have its clunk fixed (still dont know what it is), and if the mech is baffled, I can say, oh, why dont you check the ARB clearance...like i know what I am talking about!
LOL re tomorrow, you never know it could be the cause with your car but I look forward to hearing what your guy says.
Yep Fliss is lovely.
She is very camera shy and if I go near with my camera, she runs off. She hates fireworks so I guess it's the flash.
This is Claire's ( my expert in the USA ) ... reply earlier:
Hi Paula,
It is a little rustier under there than I expected. I still don't know
the context of the bar - where it mounts, etc. but the pictures helped a
little. they were taken from different locations relative to the ARB,
so again, it is hard to visualize.
They must mount differently than ones that I am used to, since the ones
I am familiar with couldn't wander to one side. Those have two mounting
plates on the front cross member and the trailing ends attach to the
lower suspension unit, and the ARB is one piece. So it isn't like the
ends can bend away from the rest of the bar.
Also, although it may pry back, one has to be careful of where you put
the other end of the pry bar, to prevent damage to the frame structure
or anything else nearby that is more easily bent than the bar. (I
learned that the hard way once when tightening fan belts).
But you are learning of the possibilities and that is a good thing.
Perhaps you should see how much the mounting rubbers would cost..
Nitey nite and good luck tomorrow.
Paula
Quote:
Originally Posted by clivjoo
great pics paula, its a real gem of a problem you got there, so good you have catalogued it like this, its sure to help some one in the future. I am going to keep this in mind when I drop mine off tomorrow to have its clunk fixed (still dont know what it is), and if the mech is baffled, I can say, oh, why dont you check the ARB clearance...like i know what I am talking about!
Konrad ( Dr Halo ) in South Africa posted this on the 2G General Section yesterday and it's certainly helped. Being international again proves how wonderful this forum really is ......
Anyway, my friend Claire never ceases to amaze me with her mechanical/technical knowledge. When she comes back here in 2 years time, I will get her to crawl underneath the car and fix it .....
We always have projects to do when I am over in the States so I will get my own back ....
Seriously though, I will get it sorted out in Sheffield soon.
She looked at the exploded view of the front cross member and said this:
How useful. Now I see how it can shift to one side. Look at parts #
34-150B, 34-150Z on the lower middle right.
Now that is what I call a bad design, since instead of the ARB mounting
directly onto the bottom of the front suspension, it has a connection
point to a piece that can pivot. Yes, I can see how it would shift to
the left or right, but still work. It certainly would clunk once it got
offset enough. Your pictures simply showed the ARB clearance, but not
any of its mounting points.
Another member on the mx6oc.com forum wrote this:
> I wonder what the condition of the suspension arm bushes is like. If
> they are starting to break up you might get movement of the arm outside
> design limits - but you'd see other changes in the road manners as well.
He is right, but since you do not have any adverse handling or tire
wear, the suspension bushings should be fine, and like the Mazda Service
Manager said, the ARB has simply moved to one side.
Parts 34-156 are the rubber bushings - presumably there is another one
on the other side - that clamp the ARB to the cross member and allow it
to twist slightly up and down on bumps. If they are deteriorating from
age or simply worn from lots of bumpy roads in Portugal where the car was mostly used, they would have less resistance to the ARB slipping one way or the
other over time. I would replace them as part of the cure. Instead of
a pry bar, the 2 nuts each on parts 34-150 B and Z should be loosened
and then when the rubber bushings that hold the bar are replaced,
everything could be aligned easily.
That exploded view was really helpful to let me visualize what is happening
well, my clunks turned out to be the suspension cup out of place...? anyway, hes put that back, and also replacd yet ANOTHER rear anti roll bar link. please guys, do not buy cheaper ones, they havent lasted me a year. luckily my mate gave me a full front and back set last night. The clunk has generally gone, i can still hear or feel something, but then agin i think i always have, might be being paranoid! but certainly the loud clunk is gone-suspension cup. there you go!
I think that I will simply replace the whole of BaBaKa's front suspension.
I jest, of course, or do I
Nitey nite
Paula
Quote:
Originally Posted by clivjoo
well, my clunks turned out to be the suspension cup out of place...? anyway, hes put that back, and also replacd yet ANOTHER rear anti roll bar link. please guys, do not buy cheaper ones, they havent lasted me a year. luckily my mate gave me a full front and back set last night. The clunk has generally gone, i can still hear or feel something, but then agin i think i always have, might be being paranoid! but certainly the loud clunk is gone-suspension cup. there you go!
Later in the week I am taking BaBaKa to my local MOT shop and Graham Ford is going to wrap some hefty amounts of cheese cloth and secure it around the nearside section of the front anti-roll bar.
Then I will return to the exit of the service road where my home is and see if the noise is deadened.
Then we will know whether the ARB is to blame.
I took this foto of the bar when I had the HQ anti rattle springs fitted on the 19th August and they did not cure the clunk.
You can see that the bar has pulled towards the right.
I hope that it is fairly easy to loosen the various parts that hold it in place and then a hefty thump with a suitable hammer should put it back in place and then tighten everthing up again.
My local Mazda dealer's Service Manager said that ARB's quite often move in one direction as cars get older.
Soon, I will have no need to go to Sheffield and maybe BaBaKa will be clunk free for Trax providing the weather is reasonable ....
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Front Anti-Roll Bar not right??
reply earlier:
