Subaru WRX STi vs. Chevrolet Corvette C5

[1993-LS-5spd]

Don't hesitate to get involved, Claeren. Good comments, nice unbiased view. I give you imaginary Karma.

[SilverLS]

That is true.. Not everyone buys japanese cars... But it is an increasing trend.. More and more jap cars are bought in america every year as the word spreads.. There will always being people buying american cars, maybe because they like them or maybe because they cant afford an import and settle for a ford...

[GTSMayhem6]

haha silver i have tried and tried to prove my point to you but you just dont listen ...the bottom line is...I HATE YOUUUUUUU

[1993-LS-5spd]

Originally posted by jewbacca

What could you assume is more refined/efficient.
5L V8 pushing 300hp
or
3L V6 pushing 260hp
or
2L I4 pushing 240hp

I cant assume anything about the efficiency of these engines, because I am not given enough information. Efficiency is calculated by output/input, NOT output/displacement. Since I am not given any info about the input into this engine, I cant tell.

[GTSMayhem6]

well guys im beginning to realize that this is never gonna end...No matter what you prove or what you disprove, there will always be another aspect of a vehicle that someone can bring up. I just want to say that i love all cars, who cares where they are from...and one of the more important stats to me would have to be...hp/weight...and also i dont like horsepower and torque stats...because they only tell you the maximum and it doesnt tell you what it is at at other rpms...the best thing to do would be to look at a dyno chart of the power band for cars.

[Claeren]

That is true.. Not everyone buys japanese cars... But it is an increasing trend.. More and more jap cars are bought in america every year
as the word spreads.. There will always being people buying american cars, maybe because they like them or maybe because they cant
afford an import and settle for a ford...

In other area's of the world, those area's outside your own small chunk of earth, Domestics do HUGE business and sell lots'o'cars. In fact different area's of the world will often have very different opinions of which car is best and i think that makes sense as each area of the world has different conditions to deal with. For example, i have heard that honda's have a really bad reputation in north africa while ford is considered the best of the best - i can only speculate but perhaps it is the sand that somehow effects one car and not the other? The point is that it is all opinion and in terms of global sales each manufacturer has a niche that they hold for the consumer. The illusion of one being blatently better then another is more likely your own local conditions then a globally accuate and enlightened perspective.

Lastly, you dismiss cost as a secondary consideration but lets face it, that could not be further from the truth! Cost is usually the PRIMARY consideration before all others. The reality is that we cannot all afford a NSX but we can buy something pretty darn close for half the price in the form of a corvette. You might be able to make an arguement it is marginally "faster" or "pulls better G's" but when it comes down to it many of us would rather keep the extra 60k or 70k in our pockets and not worry about that .1 seconds off the line. This applies to all cars equally - the final point being the same as last time i posted - each car has a market because it has some value to someone over a comparable (but obviously not identical) product. Are you so bold(?) as to suggest that the primary laws of economics, and the things we can tell by them, do not apply to automobiles, the worlds biggest industry?

I guess this is a good way to waste time at work...

Claeren.

[GTSMayhem6]

i have one thing to say about the whole displacement and # of cylinders argument. A 4 cylinder can reach really high rpms...much higher than a v-8...but this is not to say that it is better. And also a 4 cylinder with 250 horse (usually will have torque in the 150 range...maybe a little higher) is not the same as a v-8 with 250 horse(torque is usually in the 2-300's). Think about this...horse power and torque stats that car companies post are MAXIMUM...meaning what the power peaks at. This does not give us any idea of what the horse power or torque levels are at during other rpms. A 4 cylinder generally will have higher horse power than torque because of one thing...horse power and can be determined by torque times rpm's divided by 5252. Meaning that if you are over 5252 rpms(about 5252 but there are no guarantees...its an estimate) you will have higher horse power than torque and below you will have less. So these 4 cylinders make lots of horse because they can reach like near 8000 rpms...generally they dont generate much horse at all until HIGH rpms...a v-8 has a shorter power band, meaning they would generally have a higher horse power reading at low rpms...just look at a dyno for a 4 cylinder and a v-8 with near the same horse power...if you compare them you will see that a 4 cylinder usually has a major spike to reach maximum horse, while a v-8 is a smooth steady climb...so more power through out low rpms. But thats just a thought on that subject...that might have been confusin lol

[SilverLS]

Obviously youve never seen a dyno chart for a good 4cylinder engine.. unlike the american 4 cylinders that may have major spikes to reach max hp or torque honda's VTEC engines have very smooth hp climbs from nothing to 8,000... and they have very good torque too.. it may be only 110lb/ft at the wheels but it is fairly steady through all rpms.. If youve every raced a GS-R against an american 4 cylinder like the 2.4L chevy engine you would be amazed at the torque it actually has..

wanna see the charts.. check em out for yourself..
http://www.importreview.com/dyno.html

[midnightMX6]

....he was comparing v8's with similar hp to 4 cylinders cuz thats what you have been doing this whole thread.....

[Scooby]

Originally posted by SilverLS
and they have very good torque too.. it may be only 110lb/ft at the wheels but it is fairly steady through all rpms..

I would not call 110ft/lb "good torque" on a 220HP engine regardless of how smooth the curve is...
Good torque is a car that outputs roughly equivalent ft/lb to HP..
Great torque is the F-150 Lightning (380HP/450ft/lb).....

[WinterHillGang]

Originally posted by Scooby

Great torque is the F-150 Lightning (380HP/450ft/lb).....

Funny you mentioned this ... One of my pals co-owns a woodworking business with his dad ... And they have Ford Lightnings for business trucks ... anywyas ... The guys wife was stopped at a light with a load of wood in the back of the truck ... when the light turned she took off and drove rite from underneath the load of planks ... Luckily there was a bunch of young dudes loitering on the corner and she offered them all McDonalds if they helped her pile the wood back into the truck ... it may be off topic a tad but i thought i would share all the same ... Now you may get back to debating about all the things you have been for the past 8 pages ... EHEHE ... Proccceeeed ...

[GTSMayhem6]

lol i am trying to keep myself from replying in this thread because i know how pointless it is to argue...but I find myself replying just to stick up for all of the cars on earth...because this is just wrong lol...wrong wrong wrong. Silver i was not comparing 4 cylinder to 4 cylinder...i was comparing the 4 cylinders to the v-8's because you keep saying that you would rather have a 4cylinder with 240 horse than a v-8 with 240 horse...well i wouldnt cuz the power curve of a v-8 vs a 4 cylinder will show you that a v-8 (usually) has more power throughout all rpms than the 4 cylinder does.

[1993-LS-5spd]

Originally posted by GTSMayhem6
lol i am trying to keep myself from replying in this thread because i know how pointless it is to argue...but I find myself replying just to stick up for all of the cars on earth...because this is just wrong lol...wrong wrong wrong. Silver i was not comparing 4 cylinder to 4 cylinder...i was comparing the 4 cylinders to the v-8's because you keep saying that you would rather have a 4cylinder with 240 horse than a v-8 with 240 horse...well i wouldnt cuz the power curve of a v-8 vs a 4 cylinder will show you that a v-8 (usually) has more power throughout all rpms than the 4 cylinder does.

It was a good point to bring up the power curve differences, dont sweat it that SilverLS had an illogical complaint about it. I'm enjoying reading and considering most of the topics and points being brought up. And, for amusement purposes, enjoying reading SilverLS's rebutals. Some may feel this thread is going on forever and is pointless, but I'm glad it is encompassing several different aspects of performance.
Is there any merit to the arguement that the WRX's H4 is somehow inferior to a v8 in the sense that the H4 will have to be running at significantly higher rpm's and will be crammed with hi-pressure air and therefore will be a higher risk for failure? The V8 ,however, will be able to operate at a slower rpm and breathes lower pressure air, so it would seem possible to last a bit longer.
Another thing, which was the initial point of this thread, was that the wrx STi required a hard launch to get an impressive track time. The vette didnt. I think this is the case for most turbos. The only reason I say that is my little brother has a talon tsi, and Ive floored it through the geras starting at 0 rpm's and it was real sluggish. I guess the turbos need to be revved to get the boost going prior to launch in order to really get good acceleration. A lot of hard launching could also add to a higher risk for parts failure.

[Townboy]

Damn, hella funny to reading this thread, make my stomachache.. damn, is not the America limited the Jap's... i can't even think what HPS will the Jap's will get now is not the America limited their HPS.. also, don't forget who have the longer life on the average cars, and who is cheaper??? c'mon guys, this only US visison of the Jap's car.. if u know or heard little more of the JDM.. u should know how fast they are, and how many HPS they got on Japan.. Vetter??? haha, have u even know that the MR2 3gen. in Japan has 250 HPS just in a 2.0 Turbo??? American still haven't learn how to build a better engine yet, but Japan did know how to learn to build a V8 Engine on the Toyota Turnda or something like that in that big Truck, no, auctally Toyota has 2 V8 now, the other one was on the SUV.. nice, is not it??? m..... ford alway says build for what, forget it, look who is stronger after those test on the accident, Turnda or those F-150, 250 or 350?
OH also, someone said earlier about the Mazda and Ford together, hey, i do think that Ford make mazda worse??? what happen to the RX-7 goes, look at the market today of the Mazda compare to Honda and toyota??? if not FORD, Mazda is lot more sweeter.. althought i'm still love Mazda because of the good handling of the MX-6 and RX-7, i have both b4, and still have the MX6 now.. sorry, american lover u have to face the truth if u know more about the CARS in JAPAN... and,sorry about my english, i know i should study more...

oh yeah, u can learn more on the GT3 gamesssss

[GTSMayhem6]

ok town boy there are 3 basic steps you need to take...here they are

1) Understand that we are not bashing japanese cars, we are not saying american cars are better...but we are standing up for american cars against those that say they suck...hey i like japanese cars...alot.

2) understand that we are not in japan...i will never be in japan and im sure most of us will never be in japan. The reason JDM cars have more power and are faster is because of the emmisions...their emissions are not as strict as the emissions in the US. If the emissions were lowered here in the US im sure we would have stock cars alot faster than they are right now also.

3) Learn English, I have a headache from reading your post. Half of the sentences didnt even make sense...did not they? hahahaaaaaaaaaaaa