Ignition ballast - Mazda MX-6 Forum
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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 6-25-19, 0:06 Thread Starter
 
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Ignition ballast

Can someone confirm that our stock coil works with a ballast? And if so, if it is replaced with an MSD coil, can we remove the ballast?

I get spark blowout on high boost levels so looking for ideas and/or possible solutions

What about an MSD Digital 6AL box, will something like that solve the spark blow out?

EDIT: I found my MSD coil install instructions and it states if using it with a point or distributor system a ballast must be used so I guess that part is answered, but any help as to how to get the spark to not blow out other than gapping plugs less than .20 would be appreciated

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Last edited by 1FIERCEGT; 6-25-19 at 1:02.
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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 6-27-19, 14:20
 
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I don't understand why you are getting spark blowout?
I have never experienced spark blowout even at 31psi.
I run NGK V groove plugs ZFR7F11 gaped to 0.035-0.037" (I order them for a 1990 probe GT because they cant seem to find them for the mx6 or 626 even though it's the same part number, 7 is the cold plug, 6 regular and 5 is hot) and regular blue NGK wires on the factory ignition without any problems.

2 of the other mx6 gt's have MSD ignition but I have never noticed any difference over the factory ignition, switching back to it due to the msd coil dying. They also run the same Vgroove plugs and gap.

I haven bought new spark plugs in quite some time, I just clean them with a wire brush on a bench grinder.

I am so confident in the NGK V groove plugs that I have a brand new set of NGK Iridium spark plugs that have been siting around since 2006 (client totaled his car and gave me the plugs and wrecked car). I had planned on putting them in an N/A tuned F2 but life is too short to drive N/A. Never would I put them or any other spark plug in an F2T besides V Groove plugs, maybe I am jaded but I can count more than 20 times someone put performance plugs in there perfectly working car and the plugs failed or caused problems, some where F2T's.

It sounds to me like it could be another problem.
The smaller black box is called an igniter, this is an electronic ignition.

Remember positive is constant at the coil and ground is pulsed, try adding a couple engine grounds, I forgot the ground next to the cam gear once and could only manage 50% boost any higher and spark broke up, pulled over, noticed the wire, grounded it and turn up the boost again.

Could it be the signal to the computer is breaking up under the faster acceleration under higher boost. so the ecu read 4000 and 5000rpm no problem and when it reads 1500pulses from 4000 to 5000 (3 pulses per cam rpm = 1.5 pulses per crank rpm) in 1 second there is no problem but when it tries to decipher 1500 pulses in 0.1 seconds maybe it has a problem.

I would try adding thick gauge wire engine grounds first and then see if there is any way to increase the ecu programs ignition resolution or signal output above 3000rpm.

If the grounds work, try a 0.035" gap and if everything is okay don't gap the plugs any tighter.
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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 6-28-19, 11:47
 
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Thanks Carnage, I quoted you in my thread, you answered a question I had.
Glad to see you are still around.

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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 7-4-19, 18:06 Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda Carnage View Post
I don't understand why you are getting spark blowout?
I have never experienced spark blowout even at 31psi.
I run NGK V groove plugs ZFR7F11 gaped to 0.035-0.037" (I order them for a 1990 probe GT because they cant seem to find them for the mx6 or 626 even though it's the same part number, 7 is the cold plug, 6 regular and 5 is hot) and regular blue NGK wires on the factory ignition without any problems.

2 of the other mx6 gt's have MSD ignition but I have never noticed any difference over the factory ignition, switching back to it due to the msd coil dying. They also run the same Vgroove plugs and gap.

I haven bought new spark plugs in quite some time, I just clean them with a wire brush on a bench grinder.

I am so confident in the NGK V groove plugs that I have a brand new set of NGK Iridium spark plugs that have been siting around since 2006 (client totaled his car and gave me the plugs and wrecked car). I had planned on putting them in an N/A tuned F2 but life is too short to drive N/A. Never would I put them or any other spark plug in an F2T besides V Groove plugs, maybe I am jaded but I can count more than 20 times someone put performance plugs in there perfectly working car and the plugs failed or caused problems, some where F2T's.

It sounds to me like it could be another problem.
The smaller black box is called an igniter, this is an electronic ignition.

Remember positive is constant at the coil and ground is pulsed, try adding a couple engine grounds, I forgot the ground next to the cam gear once and could only manage 50% boost any higher and spark broke up, pulled over, noticed the wire, grounded it and turn up the boost again.

Could it be the signal to the computer is breaking up under the faster acceleration under higher boost. so the ecu read 4000 and 5000rpm no problem and when it reads 1500pulses from 4000 to 5000 (3 pulses per cam rpm = 1.5 pulses per crank rpm) in 1 second there is no problem but when it tries to decipher 1500 pulses in 0.1 seconds maybe it has a problem.

I would try adding thick gauge wire engine grounds first and then see if there is any way to increase the ecu programs ignition resolution or signal output above 3000rpm.

If the grounds work, try a 0.035" gap and if everything is okay don't gap the plugs any tighter.

"Could it be the signal to the computer is breaking up under the faster acceleration under higher boost. so the ecu read 4000 and 5000rpm no problem and when it reads 1500pulses from 4000 to 5000 (3 pulses per cam rpm = 1.5 pulses per crank rpm) in 1 second there is no problem but when it tries to decipher 1500 pulses in 0.1 seconds maybe it has a problem."

A friend an I were just discussing this possibility just now.

I will try to add some grounds, probably this weekend.

The plugs are now gapped at 0.021 and still blowing out. I was told to try using coppers, any thoughts?

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Quote: Originally Posted by Mr.JasonBH"150MPH Is what I hit."
Quote: Originally Posted by SD6 "A crackpipe is what you hit."
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 7-7-19, 11:57
 
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[QUOTE=1FIERCEGT;2652230

The plugs are now gapped at 0.021 and still blowing out. I was told to try using coppers, any thoughts?[/QUOTE]

NGK plugs come in
standard copper - V-power
platinum - G-power,
double platinum - Laser Platinum
iridium - Iridium IX

All four types have copper electrode cores, V groove or V power are referred to as copper but contain no more copper than the other 3 types of plugs.
All four have Nickel ground electrode core material.
All four have copper center electrode core material.
The center electrode tip is what differs, V-power is nickel
G-power and double platinum is platinum.
Iridium is iridium.

NGK state : The V-power plugs lower ignition system voltage requirements. Nobody is going to lower ignition system voltage on their car because they put in V-power plugs, I interpret this as saying with your currents ignition system voltage you will get the most spark from the cheapest of the four types of plugs.

I don't think the V-power plugs are better because of the electrode tip material, I think they work better because of the electrode tips shape. The Vpower tip is thick, the same size as the center electrode that runs through the plug and with the V cut in the tip this makes the sparks discharge surface even bigger, if you compare it to the needle size tips of the platinum and iridium plugs it explains why the V-power plugs have the least resistance.
Think of electricity flowing like water trough a garden hose, the end of the hose is the electrode tip, if you put nothing on the end you get the most water out of the hose, when you put a small tip on the end of the hose water pressure in the hose builds from resistance and you get a stronger smaller spray but less water, the difference is the water that doesn't come out the tip is still in the hose or pipes but the electricity that didn't get to the tip of the plug isn't waiting in the wire for the next ignition sequence it diccipate's into heat.

A while back I bought a 1990 626 dx auto, dirt cheap, they where selling it because it would start in any type of damp weather making it extremely unreliable, the owner put in new plugs and wires on the car within the last 6months.
It was raining the night we picked up the car, I brought an N/A coil, dissi and wires I had lying around and threw them on the car, it started, we drove it to the shop, turned it off and it wouldn't start again unless we put in another warm/dry dissi, coil and wires and would start after idling just 1 minute. Pushed it in the shop and pulled a spark plug out, it was a Champion spark plug with a little needle sized tip, I threw the 4 plugs out and installed the oldest, dirtiest, yellow baked pretty sure they where factory original from a GT we bought ngk Vpower plugs (14-16 years old), I didn't know the N/A and GT's ran the same part numbers at that time or gap the plugs but didn't care, anything would be better than the champion plugs, put the original coil, distributor and cheap grey wires back on and the car started, ran better and always started after that. Sold it to one of the guys renting a garage in the same building as mine and he drove the car for years.
The lesson for me was champion plugs and tiny electrodes suck.
The lesson for the guy I bought the car from was that trying to save a few $ (Buying the cheapest plugs and wires he could) and assuming all things are equal (That because the plugs and wires are new they cant be the problem, who makes stuff that doesn't work?) basically cost him his car, it was 14 years old, under 120 000km, no rust and plated Quebec, easily worth 1500-2000$ at the time. We paid 150$ for it.

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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 7-7-19, 13:46
 
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Just to clarify :

In my first post in this thread I told you what spark plug to put in your car and gave you the part number. I tried informing you and not telling you what to do but you seemed to miss it.
In your reply You ask my thoughts on running the copper plugs.
The exact same plugs I told you to run in my first post. Something you should have looked up because if I had this problem and didn't know the solution and "they" told me to run copper plugs I would have found out what copper plugs are, where to get them, purchased them, gaped them and installed them that same day in the hopes of eliminating this problem.
In case you miss it in my second post I explain the copper plugs are the V-grooves
And if you remember correctly I told you all this over the phone almost a year ago while you where having this same problem.

Here is where I get confused, if you buy the plugs at a local store they will cost at most 25$, ground wires can be made for 10$ (got any old automotive amplifier power cable?). So 35$ canadian dollars (for most of the rest of the members 20$ in real money), I am not sure what your total investment in the car is but a body kit and paint, standalone, dino time and tuning, turbo, parts.... and so on. You call it blowing out spark I call it spark breaking up, call it what you want a misfire is a misfire, every time it happens the piston gets slapped around on the rod like a rigging bell, and the skirt of the piston below the rings runs against the cylinder wall front and back, up and down leaving two shinny lines in the cylinder and wearing down or tearing up the aluminum piston skirt. And for 35$ you haven't yet attempted to resolve this problem.

So you can:
Get off your ass and buy the colder V-power plugs and add engine grounds.
Or just keep trying to gap your current spark plugs tighter and tighter because all that is doing is advancing ignition timing and reducing spark on a misfiring engine. I am surprised they still make a sparks at 0.021" gap.

Maybe I don't get it. The car is running and there is no snow so I would be driving it all the time. It has made high boost and is faster on high boost, like trying to give a heroin junky opium or morphine I would do evil things to run high boost and risk bad results. (my water meth has a system pressure switch and an activation switch that adds 10psi, the thought was to pressurize the system then activate/add boost when needed. How I use it is the activation boost switch is always on always. I get in the car turn the key, lower the windows, start the car and activate the meth pressure switch, always 31psi never 21psi).

So in my mind any logical person would want to drive it all the time and run the most boost possible and risk damaging the engine or just not drive it at all until the problem is sorted out.

Would hate to come across some car say one of the dozen or more sti moded subaru wagons that drive around here and have to explain to him that the extra mods he did to his rolling dumpster aren't the reason I pulled 50 car lengths ahead in 5 seconds instead of 100 car lengths, my car is running slower right now. He won't believe me and might feel a little less bad about his car, screw that, crush him, his hopes and dreams.
I feed my car v8 motors and the tears of loosers.
My favorite reply to people after racing them "No it's a factory motor, stock with original ecu, 80$ junk yard turbo, boost cut removal chip and homemade water meth system" .

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