B2200 upgrade to 12v head - Mazda MX-6 Forum
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post #1 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-15-08, 0:23 Thread Starter
 
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Question B2200 upgrade to 12v head

I have a 1989 B2200 that is missing the head. I want to get more than the whimpy 86 HP that the SOHC 8v head puts out. So I would like to upgrade the head to at least 12v or even better a 16v head.

Will my B2200 engine accept a DOHC cylinder head? If so what is required to do a conversion like this?

I dont realy have the funds to purchase the turbo or fuel inj intake, can I use the carb intake and exhaust manifold that come with the B2200?

I would buy a larger webber carb to help with performance.
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post #2 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-15-08, 3:32

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmizell View Post
Will my B2200 engine accept a DOHC cylinder head? If so what is required to do a conversion like this?
No, the 16v head uses different oil galleries, however the 12v one will fit but may be more trouble than its worth to modify the coolant lines.
If you want to go 16v, you'll need to get a whole kia sportage engine.
check the DOHC section on this site..there is info galore on this

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Originally Posted by briankmizell View Post
I dont realy have the funds to purchase the turbo or fuel inj intake, can I use the carb intake and exhaust manifold that come with the B2200?
The exhaust yes, inlet no, you'll need the manifolds on the 12v.

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Originally Posted by briankmizell View Post
I would buy a larger webber carb to help with performance.
This is a bit of a myth.. the carburetor is not the biggest limitation with these engines.
I did alot of work on the FE SOHC, the biggest gains are to be had with a cam, if you want to stay with carbs. biggest problem with changing carbs is tuning.

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post #3 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-15-08, 10:05 Thread Starter
 
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Question 12v coolant line location

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Originally Posted by chief tool View Post
12v one will fit but may be more trouble than its worth to modify the coolant lines.

The exhaust yes, inlet no, you'll need the manifolds on the 12v.
Do the coolant lines such as thermostat cover come out of the back of the head on the 12v
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post #4 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-15-08, 10:10 Thread Starter
 
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Question

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Originally Posted by chief tool View Post
This is a bit of a myth.. the carburetor is not the biggest limitation with these engines.
I did alot of work on the FE SOHC, the biggest gains are to be had with a cam, if you want to stay with carbs. biggest problem with changing carbs is tuning.
I woul only run one carb as I am not looking to get 300+ HP

What size and name brand of carb do you guys recomend and also what cam shaft. I would like to have close to 150 HP.
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post #5 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-15-08, 18:46

 
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I used a 26/66 cam in mine, you could do a 30/70, I dont know how that would turn out.

Depending on who makes the cam you may need to ajust the valve timing, th 8 valve sproket fits on 3 ways, it'd be a case of trying all 3....with my cam I found it worked best at "C" instead of "A".

This would probably net 120Hp, to get another 10-15Hp a set of 4-2-1 headers might help....as for carbs, who knows I am not a big fan of them anymore as all my cars are injected....but maybe a weber 32/36 down draught.

you could also consider a compression lift, depending on what quality fuel you paln to run it on, you might be able squeeze a few more HP..

use of FE or F8 SOHC 8v pistons, I am not sure on the dish volume on the F2 8v pistons, so I am not sure which ones you should use, except to say using F8 pistons in an FE takes the compression from 8.6 to about 9.5, which means 95RON only....putting them in an F2 on my calculation would mean about 10.2:1 which might be a bit high...probably OK on 98RON...but its a guess.

Do a dyno before and after, so that you can tell if your making gains or not and in the right areas.

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post #6 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-24-08, 14:43 Thread Starter
 
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[quote=chief tool;2023301]I used a 26/66 cam in mine, you could do a 30/70, I dont know how that would turn out.

Depending on who makes the cam you may need to ajust the valve timing, th 8 valve sproket fits on 3 ways, it'd be a case of trying all 3....with my cam I found it worked best at "C" instead of "A".


I live in the US I dont know if the engines are much different here than whre you live, but the cam gear that I have, has 4 places 1, 2, 3, 4,
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post #7 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-26-08, 0:20
 
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It is possable to put the 12-valve head on you're truck but it is not easy. The B2200 exhaust manifold will bolt up the same but like said the truck intake will not. You will have to keep the FI lower intake manifold at a minimum. From there you would either have to make an adapter plate to flip the plenum 180 deg, make a new plenum, or get creative fabricating a carb manifold to bolt to the lower FI intake. The distributor will interfere with the firewall so you will either need to pound it back (like so many people do ) cut a hole and make a recess plate or go to distributorless ignition.

As for getting power out of you're current setup. The truck exhaust is very restrictive mainly because of the cast down pipe comming off of the first cat. You'll be disappointed with most things you do to it before you open it up a bit. opening it up to 1.75"-2" from the manifold back will help it greatly. Keeping the rear cat or installing an aftermarket one shouldn't hurt it any unless the rear cat is already plugged or getting plugged. There are many reasons why I put performance cams on the bottom of the list for the B2200. First of all for the $250-$300 you're going to spend on a regrind there are other upgrades you can make which will provide the same amount or more power and have less risk. The top two of these upgrades are probably a weber carb and a lightweight flywheel, both of which most people on my own forum where much happier with than the cams they installed (including myself). Second is the valvetrain in the B2200 have very poor ability to maintain dynamic control of the valves even in stock form, going to a performance cam without upgrading you're valve springs, or taking other measures to make the valvetrain more reliabe is going to lead to rapid wear and failure. As you start getting into larger cam profiles keeping the rest of the valve train stock you will start finding problems with chipping cam lobes, badly worn and chipped lash adjustor tips, keeper grooves which wear out to twice their original width causing the valve to drop into the cylinder, valve float, etc... These effects will be rapidly noticable with cam durations of 270 (advertised) and higher. When you start pushing the cam duration in the 8-valve F2 towards 275-280 advertised duration you can expect to see the life expectancy of the valvetrain to drop down to less than two years.

Flowbench tests I did on the 8-valve cylinder head, the B2200 intake manifold and a Holley 5200 (weber 32/36 copy) showed that both the intake manifold and intake ports could support up to about 150 hp stock going off of flow numbers but even a Holley 5200 or weber 32/36 showed small enough flow numbers to be a significant restriction to power on even lightly modified engine. Another weak link is the exhaust ports which only flow about 54% of the intake across a range of measurements taken at .050" lift increments. Ideally this should be closer to about 70-75%, this combined with extremely poor low lift flow through the valves would indicate that doing some valve angle work or increasing the exhaust valve diameter would be very beneficial. This could also be compensated for by using a split duration cam with more open time on the exhaust valve but here again you're pushing the limits of the valvetrain.

Besides a holley 5200 or weber carb a lightweight flywheel does great at freeing up some horsepower. I have seen dyno results of other 4 cylinders which saw as much as 1 hp per pound made available by removing weight off the flywheel. Of coarse this is just energy freed up from inertia and the benefit of the weight loss is dependent on how far it is from the center of crank rotation but the stock B2200 flywheel weighs a little over 25 lbs and a fidanza aluminum flywheel weighs in at 9 lbs 5 oz. I have one installed in my truck and love it, acceleration in 1st through 3rd gears is significantly higher and it is much easier to pass someone on the interstate. I had about a dozen or more people tell me not to do it because it would make the truck hard to drive and impossable to haul anything but none of them had ever put one in a truck. I haul stuff all the time in it, towed my RX-7 12 miles with it in there and just got back today from hauling two F2 long blocks back from Georgia and it never hesitates from a stop.
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post #8 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-26-08, 2:13 Thread Starter
 
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Cool I've just got to know!!!!

I want this exact setup minus the turbo, who ever owns this truck please contact me and give me the details on the year models and parts required to do this.






Last edited by briankmizell; 2-4-09 at 0:57. Reason: removed picture
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post #9 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-26-08, 13:40 Thread Starter
 
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I have seen a couple of posts somwhere on the net stating that there b2200 had the 12v head from the factory. I dont realy see mazda modifying the firewall. do you know of this 12v head for rwd trucks.

If so, is there a speacial number to search for example (F212vRWD)

by the way thanks for the info, it was very informative.
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post #10 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-26-08, 14:04
 
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holy crap, 3 year old thread!!! what one do you want BTW?

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post #11 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-26-08, 16:24
 
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Overseas they still make the B2200, it still uses the same block that we had here in the united states, in 1994 they upgraded it to the 12-valve head found on the cars here in the states. They installed a similar intake but the plenum and throttle body come over the valve cover and the air filter is then on the drive side, just like the 8-valve FI models. To make the head work Mazda made a camshaft which has the distributor gear mounted on the front, then they just used the old FI distributor hanging off front side of the block like on all the 86-93 versions.

If you can find a japanese import company that can get you a 94+ B2200 engine it will bolt right in, only thing you will need to do is make sure you have everything to run the fuel injection which will include swapping out the fuel tank and installing new fuel lines.
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post #12 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-27-08, 14:49 Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SXE MX6 View Post
holy crap, 3 year old thread!!! what one do you want BTW?
This is the intake and engine setup I prefer to have. I just dont know what engine or year model it came from.

I also prefer to have the rotary distributor instead of the cam angle sensor or what ever it takes to replace the dist.


I already have the factory dist. and its cheaper.


Last edited by briankmizell; 5-27-08 at 15:02.
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post #13 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-27-08, 16:37 Thread Starter
 
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B2200 upgrade to 12v head UPDATE!

I found out that my engine needs rebuilt, I thought at first it was froze up solid, but I got a cheater bar and a 1/2 drive breakover bar and was able to free it up.
It must have a spun bearing because it will turn almost 1 revolution and stop. Then I can turn it the oposite direction almost one revolution and it stops again. It turns freely now but stops in the same place after turning one way then going back the other way.

So I am back to the quest of finding a 12 head with the front distributor. I am hearing that the JDM B2600 and B2500 FI engines have this head with the front dist and uses FI.
Now I just need to know if that head will fit the B2200 block. I was told by a Mazdatruckin.com guy that the complete engine from the JDM B2600i would bolt right up to my B2200 auto transmission.

I just want to make sure this is a fact befor I purchase an engine and or head.

Any Info is greatly appreciated.

Last edited by briankmizell; 5-27-08 at 16:41.
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post #14 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-28-08, 0:27

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmizell View Post
I want this exact setup minus the turbo, who ever owns this truck please contact me and give me the details on the year models and parts required to do this.



For a similar setup on an 8 valve head, look at the 86+ injected 929 coupes. They had the dizzy at the cam wheel end with a front facing throttle body. However the throttle body was a single butterfly single. There is one at the local self serve wreckers. I'll try to get a pic of it for you.

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post #15 of 61 (permalink) Old 5-28-08, 2:15

 
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it looks the same as the CFI setup in my GC


84 626 sedan FE SOHC turbo - Sold, no time to finish
84 626 sedan RF diesel - Sold, no time to work on it.
06 Mazda 6 MPS (Mazdaspeed) new fun car no mods yet
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