Gavins 1st gen MX6 DSP autocross build - Page 3 - Mazda MX-6 Forum
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post #31 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-25-10, 23:45 Thread Starter

 
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Throttle Position Sensor

I am using a Ford 4.6l throttle body and TPS for my car. The Ford TPS is a three wire unit as is the stock Mazda TPS. Wiring them up should be a simple matter of figuring out what outputs correspond to which wires on the Ford TPS and make a harness that ties into the Mazda wiring that did the same thing for the Mazda TPS.

The Ford TPS wiring diagram (for the one I used) is as follows:

BRN/WHT – Voltage reference (+5v)
GRY/WHT – TP sensor input
GRY/RED – Signal return (ground)

Both Mazda and the TEC3 use the same inputs, and more or less call them the same thing(+5v,signal,ground), so wiring was straightforward.

+5v : lt green/red : pin 2I
Signal : lt green/black : pin 2F
Ground : lt green/yellow : pin 3D





Unlike the distributor wiring that goes directly to the ECU unshared with any other component, some of the wires (+5v, ground) for the TPS are used by another component…the EGR. Unless I could find another item the TEC3 uses, that also uses those signals, I would have to leave the EGR plug dangling. Luckily there is another item that uses those signals…..The MAP sensor.



MAP sensor

Since I am ditching the VAF, some other method of metering air has to be used. In this case, I am using a manifold air pressure (MAP) sensor. It’s a 3-bar unit, which should have me covered for 28psi positive manifold pressure (not that Ill be getting anywhere close to that).

Since I am not using the EGR with the new intake manifold, I reused the plug for the MAP sensor, creating this adaptor for the two.





As mentioned, the TEC needs a ground, signal and +5v for the MAP. Since Mazdas wiring was set up for two components to use some of the same wiring (TPS/EGR), the EGR plug was used for the MAP sensor.

+5v : lt green/red : pin 2I
Signal : yellow/blue : pin 2J
Ground : lt green/yellow : pin 3D




Air temp sensor

With the stock airbox and VAF gone, the stock air temperature sensor is also gone. Need to add another one. If you look at the picture above that has all the accessories for the TEC3, youll see a GM air temp sensor. The new intake manifold was built with a bung for the air temp sensor on the plenum. The only thing left is to wire it up.

The air temp sensor just needs a signal and a ground. Tracing back on the Mazda schematics I found the stock temp sensor leads in the VAF plug and wired it into the corresponding sig/gnd leads.

Temp Signal : red : pin 2K
Ground : lt green/yellow : pin 3D






In case you are wondering..from top to bottom, thats vacuum for Brake booster, boost gauge, bypass valve, MAP sensor and finally...air temp sensor.




Coolant temp sensor

I am going to be reusing the stock coolant sensor. From a bit of reading, I gather that the temp sensor is the same/similar to the sensor used in 2nd and 3rd gen RX7s. Those who have used TEC3 products on RX7s say there is a default setting for that sensor (or if not, there is plenty adjustment so that it can be used….I havent checked this for myself though). To that end, the coolant sensor needs the same as air temp sensor…leads for signal and ground.

Coolant Sig : yellow/black : pin 2E
Ground : lt green/yellow : pin 3D



If you noticed that a lot of the grounds are going to the same mazda pin (3D), that’s the primary ground used for a lot of the stock sensors. The stock wiring is already branched to those components. Since the TEC3 also uses shared grounds for sensors, I just used the wiring in the same manner.



Injectors

The injectors will be 440cc/min from a 3rd gen turbo Supra. These are low impedance injectors. While I am only planning for moderate increases in HP and I probably could push the stock injectors to what I needed, I really didn’t see a need to do that with decent injector controls. The 440s should meet my goals while not being maxed out…and if I do want more in the future, there should be ample headroom available.

While I have an option to fire the injectors sequentially or in pairs(batch fire), for the time being I will be wiring the injectors to “batch fire” (keeping it simple for this stupid).

Just like the coolant temp sensor, I would be using the stock wiring for the injectors. There was a curiosity however. As said, the injectors are wired in pair. Reading the stock diagrams they are paired as odd/even (1/3, 2/4). The Tec3 however asked for the injectors to be paired 1/4, 2/3 (much like their ignition firing order). Checking diagrams and tracing wiring seemed to confirm that mazda has the injectors paired in this manner. Both mazda and the TEC3 have the same ignition pattern (1-3-4-2). This would have an injector firing pattern of 1-2-1-2 for the TEC3 and 1-1-2-2 for Mazda (if I have that right). Odd, and since Im no expert on this, I just made an extension for the #3 injector so I could swap the plugs for the #3 and #4 injectors. This satisfied the TEC3 instructions.




The injectors are on 2 signal channels and also need 12v power. The power comes straight from the main power relay and not the ECU, so there is no specific pinout there.

Channel 1(injector 1/4) : yellow (old 1/3) : pin 3U
Channel 2(injector 2/3) : yellow/black (old 2/4) : pin 3V
+12v : white/red : main power relay


EDIT: better pic of the air temp sensor.

(continued)

Last edited by gavin; 1-3-11 at 0:15.
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post #32 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-25-10, 23:52 Thread Starter

 
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Direct Fire Unit(DFU)

The coil and distributor are no longer in the car.

Quote:
15.9.A
Any ignition setting, adjustment, or system may be used, subject to the requirements of 15.10.D. This does not prohibit the use of “twostep” rev limiters used when the car is stationary.
Quote:
Appendix F
CRANK FIRE IGNITION SYSTEM

SR, Section 15.9.A. For the purposes of triggering a crank fire ignition system, which is an allowed modification in the Street Prepared category, a trigger ring may be added to the crankshaft, or a crankshaft pulley may be modified to serve the purpose of the trigger ring.
Mounting of the trigger ring, or modification to the crankshaft pulley may serve no purpose other than to provide a means of triggering the ignition system. The original distributor may be removed and the distributor mounting hole covered with a plate. The location of electronic ignition control modules is unrestricted.

With the distributor gone, the hole it left needed to be covered. Thanks to RbluEMx6 for finding the appropriate part number for the seal cap.

The part number for the distributor seal cap is KLG4-12-603.

With the seal plate installed I fabbed a mount for the DFU to fit in the space left by the distributor.




Then I made a harness for it using the wiring that went to the plug of the igniter coil.




Like the injectors there are two channels for each coil (A and B) and +12v power coming from the main relay.

Channel 1(coil A) : blue/red : pin 1V
Channel 2(Coil B) : yellow/black : pin 1G
+12v : white/red : main power rela
y

This setup will be “wasted spark” as one coil will fire two plugs at the same time. Coil A will fire spark plugs 1/4 and coil B will fire 2/3. The firing order will still be the same as Mazdas, 1-3-4-2

Lastly the DFU was dressed up with a set of Magnacor 8.5mm wires for a 99 Cavalier.




I might flip the DFU around so the wires aren’t crossed over the coils. Itll add a bit more slack to the wires. There is a bolt in the way that prevents that so I may build a new mount. For right now though, this is adequate.



Coolant fan

There are “general purpose” outputs on the TEC3 to control whatever extra accessories you may want to run (electronic boost control, nitrous, water injection, etc)I used one of those outputs to control the coolant fans. This is a simple switch so only a single on/off output is needed.

GP01 (coolant fan switch) : black/green : 2D



Tachometer signal

This was a bit difficult to wire up. The stock tack gets its signal from the ignition coil every time it fires. The first issue is that there is no stock coil to produce such a signal. The other issue is that the signal is sent upstream to the tach via the 4-pin plug on the coil. That plug is NOT part of the ECU wiring harness. Its actually part of the chassis harness.

So something has to generate a tach signal and somehow it has to make it up the chassis harness to the tach.

The Tec3 ECU will produce a 12v square wave signal for each time the coil fires. This signal is whats used for the tach to work. That signal would be sent through an unused wire coming from the ECU (pin 2A) to the VAF plug. From the VAF plug, I bridged the two harnesses with a bit of wire and another plug that would connect to the 4-pin plug that lead from the coil.



Here you can see the adaptors on the igniter plug (DFU), VAF plug (air temp sensor) and the little pigtail going from the VAF to the 4-pin coil plug (distributor signal)

Tach signal : yellow/blue (coil plug) >>>> red/white (VAF plug) : 2A

The only other issue here is that the 12v square wave probably isn’t suitable for the stock tach to make sense of it. Here is electromotives manual…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electromotive
F.2. Tachometer Output The tachometer output on the Tec3-r is a +12 Volt square wave. Each time a coil fires, a “tach pulse” is generated. Therefore, the output from the tachometer signal is ground, then +12 Volts for 30 degrees of crankshaft rotation starting at each TDC/spark event. A 4-cylinder will output 2 tach pulses per revolution, a 6-cylinder will output 3 tach pulses per revolution, an 8-cylinder will output 4 tach pulses per revolution, and a 12-cylinder will output 6 tach pulses per revolution. For applications that have a tachometer configured for a different number of cylinders than the engine (i.e. a 6-cylinder car that was converted to an 8-cylinder), there is the option of changing the tach output type in the software. This type of signal is compatible with most new-style tachometers. However, some older tachometers trigger off the high-voltage signal from the ignition coil (C-). These types of tachometers require the use of a tachometer amplifier, since they are designed to trigger off of a 120 Volt signal. Tachometer amplifiers (PN: 150-15210) are available from Electromotive to suit these applications.
Much the same issue like using MSD ignition boxes on our cars. In that case, MSD PN 8910 should solve that issue. I have extra plugs to wire an MSD tach adaptor inline just in case this is the case (and likely is).



Main Harness

And this is where it all comes together, the (lol-not-really) plug and play harness adaptor that bridges the connections at the end of the stock Mazda ECU harness and then ties that to the connectors at the TEC3.

Using the information gathered above while tracing out what wires go to what connection, I created this harness..





I had a couple extra stock ECUs on hand. As it turns out the connector on the 90-92 N/A and Turbo ECUs are the same. Just as d0zxmustang had charted out in his Megasquirt writeup (https://www.mx6.com/forums/1g-mx6-eng...mx6-turbo.html ) I removed the connector from the ECU and used that to make the new harness.

That’s one end of things, the other end involved the plugs for the TEC3r. I could have bought the flying loom that is sold for it…but at $200!! (and the fact that I was going to chop it up), er…..hell no.

It took a bit of searching, but I figured out who made the connectors/plugs for the TEC3. AMP connectors is the manufacturer. Seems they are somewhat popular nowadays.

TEC3 ECU plugs: AMP 770680-4 and AMP 770680-2

PS: the AMP connectors were $6 apiece.

Interestingly enough, while looking through AMPs catalog, I found this part number… AMP 174518-7. That’s the part number for the Mazda 90-92 ECU connector. If you are looking for a brand new Mazda ECU connector (for some bizarre reason), there it is. (I didn’t check for the P/N for the 88-89 ECUs..sorry ).





ECU mounted....(hope it all works).




So.....after doing all of this insanity, what have I learned? “Don’t do that”.

Seriously, this could have been done much simpler and with much less headaches, but I had some harebrained notion that lead me down this path. I did learn a lot, and maybe that’s why I stubbornly continued. One bit of confusion lead to a revelation, another obstacle lead to a resolution….I just kept going. Madness, I tell you….sheer madness.





Completely unrelated to nothing…



Did a bit of heat shielding to some of the parts and lines that were right next to the headers. Also….





I had removed the A/C system including the evaporator(you can see it still in the first pic). That left an empty evap box. I tracked down a car that did not have air conditioning and got the correct non-A/C vent (bottom pic, left). Its half the weight of the injection molded box, so I lose…1lb?


Anyway, more to come….mounting the TEC3, installing and wiring the gauges, exhaust.

Merry Christmas!

Gavin

Last edited by gavin; 1-3-11 at 0:13.
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post #33 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-27-10, 0:51 Thread Starter

 
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SPA gauges



Um, they do...stuff.




Well it certainly took a while, but they are installed. As mentioned before....





The oil temp sensor was tapped to the oil pan, the fuel pressure was tapped to a "T" off the fuel rail and oil pressure was tapped off the stock oil pressure sender...the only thing left was, where to get the coolant temperature reading from?

Well as it turns out, since I have removed the air conditioning system...including the fan, I no longer have a use for the stock thermo-switch (in the thermostat housing) that controls the A/C fan at higher temperatures. Excellent, I have a perfect place to tap the SPA temp probe.

Problem....the SPA thermo sensor is 1/8th NPT. The stock thermo-switch for the A/C is 3/4th NPT (actually, it seems like its not even a tapered thread, just straight 3/4th? 10/24 pitch?). In any case, I needed to make an adaptor....(like just about everything else in this build )

I came up with this....



I found an old thermo-switch and cut it down to size so that the SPA temp probe could be immersed fully in coolant to get the best reading. After it was cut down to size, I drilled it out and threaded it with a 1/8 NPT tap. End result is...



Wait..."why not use the stock temp sensors spot, since its also 1/8th NPT?"...good question. Even though the 90-92 temp gauge is basically a 3-step switch (cold/up to temp/boom) vs, the 88-89 full sweep rheostat, it still works somewhat. That and I wanted a backup should something go wrong with the SPA gauges.

Wait, whats next again?

Gavin

Last edited by gavin; 1-3-11 at 0:12.
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post #34 of 37 (permalink) Old 2-13-11, 19:32 Thread Starter

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post


Pulled this out of the car. It needs to be replaced by something, but what?






Thats 5ft of 3"diameter 18ga straight pipe, two 16ga 90deg 3" elbows, burns stainless lightweight racing muffler (3"in/out), a 14ga 2.5" 180deg bend, a 1.5" 180deg bend, 2.5">3" reducer, 2.5" v-band clamp and a flange for the VJ-11.

The piping is from Colombia river mandrel bends, the clamp and reducer are from vibrant, the muffler..well yeah, The flange is from BMCrace. Aside from the flange, everything is 304 stainless. I plan to make my own O2 housing with the 180deg bends. I got those in heavier gauge because I wanted a bit more strength and resistance to heat since it will be right next to the turbo. Should be a nice and simple and quiet exhaust system.

So...I had been wondering about something for a while, namely the strength and longevity of the stock turbo. Most believe the limits of the stock turbos' production to be @200-220hp/16-18psi, then issues with failure are likely. Whenever a discussion of the merits of the stock turbo comes up, what you tend to get is a steady chorus of.."get rid of it", "the stock turbo sucks", "weak", "get a T3(4/5/9?/whatever)", etc. Even when the subject of the hybrid VJ-17 ("t-bird") comes up, the same advice is offered.

But why?

See, I like to know how and why things work...and also why they dont. For me, "it sucks", or "doesnt make power" doesnt tell me why/under what circumstances it sux or doesnt make power. For example...if someone were to say ,hypothetically, that "the stock brakes suck". Id want to know why they think so or what issues they have encountered to come to that conclusion. that could lead to a conversation where I find out that.....

-one has to pump up the brakes before a corner or else youll get a long pedal
-ok, so that could be air in the lines, bad pads, fluid or pad knockback
-The pads check out. The lines are well bled and free of air, etc, etc, you just have to keep pumping the pedal to get a firm pedal.
-eliminating everything else it could be pad knockback...maybe bad wheel bearings or a spindle thats flexing under heavy load
-find out that the hub and hub bearings are new....so, it must be a flexing spindle. EUREKA!
-so the issue isnt so much the "brakes" that are bad...its a spindle flexing under heavy cornering load thats allowing the hub and rotor to press the caliper pistons back in their bore.

Something like the above hypothetical would not only give me an understanding of what and why, BUT more importantly, it would give me a path to work with if I wanted to combat those issues...(maybe spindle reinforcements, maybe custom spindle sets, maybe...yadda yadda yadda).

That, drilling down to the root cause of the issue, is something that I really have never seen with regards to why people believe the stock turbocharger to be so full of faults. Its taken for granted that it just is...and while it well may be, it would be nice to know why. Anyway.......

A while ago I was involved in an interesting thread over on performanceprobe...Stock or t3 turbo for endurance racecar? - Performance Probe Forum. This fellow was having a spate of turbo failures, one after the other during sustained runs at full boost. I thought it odd, but I was interested in what happened to make his turbo fail. Theres a bit of "stock turbo sux/dont even bother/waste of time" talk and a couple of (in my opinion) red herrings like "turbo spins too fast", etc. While interesting, I tried to steer things back to a..."how/under what circumstances did the turbo fail?". I would be doing something similar as he had using the stock turbo and there could be something valuable learned from his experiences.....and I think I did get that.



Thats one of the old team Highball cars from the old IMSA Luk Cluch challenge. It was a fast car in its day. Made good power with mostly stock hardware. These were cars that ran 45min-1hr sprints and 3-6hr enduros. Its been a while and information is scarce, but I was lead to understand that the cars ran a lot(?) of boost and ran very lean(?) to make their power. Because of the lean running, the big maintenance items were the valves and pistons every season. Again, info is sparse, but I didnt hear much about the turbo. Now, It certainly could have been that the turbos blew up after 1 hr and were simply replaced after every race by factory sponsor Mazda Motorsports...but that seems unlikely. These cars are now in the hands of average club racers who simply wouldnt have the time, effort and resource$$$, to campaign a car that you need to replace turbos every hour or so.

Now, I believe this fellow in the PP thread when he says his turbos were built with highest care, but clearly something is amiss. With the same stock turbo..what are these old racecars doing to ensure longevity, where he was not able to achieve the same results?



The MX6 racecars ran in a series where the use of stock components was mandatory, and efforts were taken to ensure equity in performance between different marques...so why would you give a car an allowance to change a part that could potentially give a large performance gain and an unfair advantage? (You know...like a custom O2 housing). You wouldnt....not unless there is a damned good reason.

The exit of the hot side turbine is about 46mm but flares out to about 48mm (1810mm sq). The narrowest part of the stock O2 housing is about 40mm x 44mm (1760mm sq).

So Im thinking to myself...while that could probably work ok for daily driving and maybe a little beyond, could that be an issue at much higher boost levels? I form a loose hypothesis (Please feel free to pick it apart as you wish). Is it possible....that such a restriction could cause high levels of backpressure to build up on the exhaust wheel causing sluggish performance or even damage (like a form of compressor surge, but sustained and on the hot side)? Consider also that most who switch to alternate turbos...do not use the stock O2 housing. It gets discarded for some other O2 housing thats less compromised or completely custom. In other words, while the stock turbo has its performance limitations, its possibly even MORE limited by being used in conjunction with the stock O2 housing. At increased or prolonged boost levels, the stock O2 housing is restrictive enough to cause enough backpressure within itself to cause undue strain to the turbo and possibly shorten its life.

Its a theory, probably imperfect, and I have no way of empirically testing this theory out. I do think that somewhere in there is an answer and am confident enough in it that I decided to move towards a "solution" anyway....a custom, free flowing O2 housing (besides, the stock one is heavy...and ugly )

Jake had already done quite a bit of legwork on creating a very nice O2 housing with a separate wastegate routing here https://www.mx6.com/forums/1g-faq-for...gate-tube.html

I used this as a template to make my own. While Jakes was made with the idea that people may have their A/C, I did not and made mine to utilize the space from the missing A/C compressor to be a bit more flowing. this was the result.






The 180deg tubing I had was a 3.75" radius. It was smooth, but not as tight a radius as I would have liked. To make the angles work I would have had to cut the tubing at a very shallow angle. I didnt like that and wanted a less abrupt transition. I decided to section the piping and do pie cuts. This turned out to be a good thing because the tube had to snake a bit to the left and then right to give clearance the power steering lines while still pointing in the right angle to the downpipe. In the end, I think a 2.5" donut would have been easier to sort out...but you do the best with what you have.

Downpipe




I had things lined up initially in terms of angles, but when I had the O2 housing welded and refitted to check on things, the angles were a little off. Lots of pie cuts will do that I suppose. Since I was using v-band clamps, I needed things to be right on, so I fixed the mismatch in angles with a small wedge.





and all together now....



I still have to get the muffler, tubing and some hangers welded on, but thats what itll look like in the end. Oh yeah, the turndown tip is aluminum... gotta save weight you know .

With the stock O2 housing the stock exhaust above was 36lbs, the new setup is 17lbs, maybe 18lbs when the welding is done, half as much as stock which is what my goal was for making this exhaust. Im happy with that

Gavin

Last edited by gavin; 3-3-11 at 1:00.
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post #35 of 37 (permalink) Old 2-14-11, 16:19 Thread Starter

 
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I decided that I didnt need the adjustability of sliders on the passenger seat.

Before...




After...



Since there are no passengers on competition runs, the passenger seat is really just there to fill a rules requirement.

Quote:
15.2.F. The driver and front passenger seats may be replaced, with the following restrictions: Seats must be securely mounted per 3.3.3.B.2. The seating surface must be fully upholstered. Any replacement seat must be a full back, bucket-type automobile seat incorporating a functional headrest. Kart seats, low-back dune buggy seats, and other similar types of seat are expressly prohibited. Cars may have no fewer than the standard number of seats. The seat tracks are considered part of the seat and may be substituted. Alternate seat tracks may serve no other purpose. The standard seat belts may be removed to facilitate the installation of alternate restraints complying with safety requirements. An alternate seat which replaces an airbag-equipped seat is not required to have an airbag.
...so I redid the seat bracket removing the slider mechanism and made a fixed mount. That saved about 5lbs.

Now if a person wanted to be "clever" and took that allowance to its ultimate ends...they could save even more weight by using aluminum flat stock...or zip ties...or velcro...clever, right ? Sure, racers being racers, they will try to get the most performance out of a rule without hard and fast borders(weight/dimensions/material, etc), but for me, I do grant ridealongs to passengers at local meets and Im simply not going to make someone sit in a seat held down by velcro or something else that I feel isnt safe (for a couple lbs of weight saved? thats just rude). But, aside from my own personal ethos, theres another mechanism designed to curb the desire to sacrifice safety for performance in the above rules..."Seats must be securely mounted per 3.3.3.B.2". Which states...

Quote:
3.3.3.B.2 Passenger’s seat back and all cushions, bolsters, headrests, etc. must be secured. All allowed aftermarket replacement seats (i.e. driver and passenger) must be securely and safely mounted. Special care should be taken when using other than OE mounting points and/or fabricated bracketry.
Its a safety rule for tech scrutineers, written with very loose and generous language(intentionally so). It gives a lot of leeway to the scrutineers to apply the "sniff test" to make sure things are really safe instead of simply meeting the letter of the law. Also knowing there is a "common sense" rule out there that determines compliance of seat mounting keeps people in check with their cleverness. For me, steel was used to make a sturdy and safe mount thats still relatively lightweight.

Gavin

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post #36 of 37 (permalink) Old 2-16-11, 23:50 Thread Starter

 
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Mounted the Housing and downpipe...





I didnt have a super amount of clearance for that most forward bolt..whoops. A standard 17mm hex M10 x 1.5 was not going to fit in there. I found a 15mm Hex M10 X 1.5 that juuuust cleared under.

Clearances with the PS hoses, dipstick and subframe are close. I heat wrapped the PS lines with reflective fiberglass backed tape and I may have the hot bits coated at some point...maybe wrapped?

Getting the remainder welded tomorrow I think.

Gavin

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post #37 of 37 (permalink) Old 2-27-11, 21:38 Thread Starter

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavin View Post
Probably another $15-20 for the downpipe>exhaust tubing>muffler, hangers and an extra O2 sensor bung for future wideband if needed.
$15 actually. And thats with a slight revision. The downpipe and main tube were butt welded. I didnt check if the ends were actually ground flat and were perfectly 90deg. Turned out there was a bit of flashing and this made a slight kink downwards from the downpipe (which I had set in place with a bubble level). Normally, not a big deal, but that slight angle turned into a large mismatch at the other end where the furthest hanger was 3" off. A quick cut, square up and reweld and all is better.




Also....
-installed the fuzzy Momo steering wheel
-installed the radiator
-drained the fuel tank of gasoline (it might have been good for diesel fuel at that point )
-re.did some rewiring of the TEC3...funny thing, when you are soldering, reading wiring diagrams and are really tired, lower cased "q"s sometimes look like lower case "g"s....who knew?
-redid the gauge wiring so they went on with power/acc instead of on all the time.

Did a test of the revised wiring..key/on, the fuel pump cycles and all necessary blinky lights are on....getting there

Gavin



Comments can be found here: https://www.mx6.com/forums/1g-mx6-oth...oss-build.html

Last edited by gavin; 3-3-11 at 1:03.
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