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Nitrogen's 323 Restore

22K views 94 replies 16 participants last post by  RSTurbo 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi All,

I am looking to overhaul many things on my car the coming year, I think time has come to inspect everything to see what direction i'd like to take with the car.

On my todo list we have (Not in any specific order):

- Sourcing of original engine mountings. Yes you heard right - I still haven't been able to find these or the cross member that comes with them. If anyone from the forums can help me out, please let me know

- Replacing of rear sway bar and bushings, if anyone has an aftermarket part they would like to punt now is the time :D

- Restoring of valve cover, it is in the same condition as the day I bought the motor, paint chips and slight gold fade.

- Uprating of coil, To something better (Any ideas? How are MSD single coils?) Would coil packs be possible? Are they of any benefit to me? How does one set these up :)

- I want to replace spark plug wires with something aftermarket, if any are proven (dyno) to be better than stock bougi cords.

- I want to check my cam specs. I know I have a high comp motor straight out of Japan but have no idea what cams are in it. If they are cr@p then i'd like to buy a set of FE5A's <--- Are these the best stock cams? Does one slap two of them in or a FE3N / FE5A setup? Are there aftermarket cams which will be of greater benefit without loosing too much low down torque?

- I want to replace all suspension parts, the ride is hard and I am looking at an alternative drop, maybe 35mm max (I have 45mm on gabrial gas ryder shocks and N-Force 45mm al'cheapo springs). Maybe ride is hard because the shocks are bottoming out? The shocks I bought are stock 2.0 16v parts for this car (SA 323 hatch, think its a BG or BF? Used to know these things... now i've forgotten)

- Replace injectors for RC items, if they have stock sizing (What are our injectors btw? I remember 190cc - the stickied thread evo maintained doesn't open anymore so I cant check)

- Replace fuel pump with a Walbro item, Any ideas. Would it make a difference buying for turbo application but running it on a NA car?

- Reseat my dash... after removing it once - it hasn't stopped rattling :mad: There is nothing worse than rattles in a car.

- Remount my ECU to another location, perhaps in the engine bay. I've found I really don't need it in cabin - hardly adjust fueling on the go. Also where it is mounted is directly below a mp3 player and directly above a equaliser. I am thinking EMI at this area is pretty high with all the current and RCA cables in and out of there. It must impact the ECU whether sound is being used or not. (Must be a trickle feed of power all the time).

- Respray the car to original red without the sticker stripes on the side (as originally bought). Anyone have ideas for the bumper? How do I restore it back to original black shine? How do cars of today with black bumpers manage to stay that colour for years? Is it painted mat black?

- Replace mud flaps. Jack Russles enjoy those.

- Remount my exhaust. The guys that did it before didn't bend it perfectly - as a result everynow and then I snap a stabilising rubber.

- Run a proper earth from motor to car chassis. If anyone has done this what areas can I safely use? I've forgotten how to connect earthing kits too, as far as I can recall the battery was involved too?

- And last but not least (for now) I want to replace my spark plugs lol! NGK has recommended Iridium IX's (They would :p) part numbers BKR6EIX or BKR7EIX. Is the 6EIX the hotter or the colder plug?

What did the original high compression motor use heat range wise? I dont want to replace plugs and have the motor ping. I use 95 Ron ;)

Cheers all, will update this thread as I get items done (I am busy so it wont be too often :p)
 
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#2 ·
i noticed a few things :

wideband first! then think about injectors and pumps. most likely both are totally fine in totally stock form. just a clean and you should be good.

ign upgrade?? dont, unless you are having issues. the stock fe3 coil is plenty good for any NA application. total waste of time. unless you want it for "bling" if so, beware of the different dwell requirements of different coils.

this is the correct spark plug for an NA application BKR6EIX-11

i used BKR7EIX-11 for mine.

once again though, if its not missing, and the plugs arent too old, why change them?

DO NOT put your ecu in the engine bay. even if its designed for it, its a bad idea.

keep us posted with lots of nice big pics :)
 
#3 ·
Hey Fred,

Shot for the reply. Well I went out with the intention of checking the spark plugs that were used in my car from last service (service center did the work).

They had NGK BCPR6E in it? Not sure about these plugs, heat range seems correct.

We have problems though:

Cyl #4 (I think, looking at it from the left to right, exhaust headers towards me, intake further back) - when I took out the plug, the socket itself was covered with black oil (Changed oil not even 5000km's back with fully synthetic again), the plug was full of oil - It was a mess. I had to get alot of carlton to remove it all before putting the plug back.

Cyl #3, the rubber from the socket is stuck on the plug... It happened because when I tried to turn to loosen it - it was just too tight and the rubber just came right off when I took the socket out. Not only this, but as I tried loosening it (ANTICLOCKWISE) I heard a snap, crack and I hung my head.

Did I just do what I think I did? Heli coil time? Or did I break part of the plug itself? I can't see damage to the plug nor can I get it out.

Dammit.

FE out of order until I can get this sorted.
 
#4 ·
They had NGK BCPR6E in it? Not sure about these plugs, heat range seems correct.
i think those are fine for now :)

Cyl #4 (I think, looking at it from the left to right, exhaust headers towards me, intake further back) - when I took out the plug, the socket itself was covered with black oil (Changed oil not even 5000km's back with fully synthetic again), the plug was full of oil - It was a mess. I had to get alot of carlton to remove it all before putting the plug back.
leaking valve covers are pretty common among all mazda motors. not the best design imo. in the case of the dohc engines you end up with a puddle of oil around the plugs. pays to wash/mop it out with a solvent and rag if you can get to it enough before pulling the plug or the oil (and any harmfull solids that found there way in) go into the cylinder.

Cyl #3, the rubber from the socket is stuck on the plug... It happened because when I tried to turn to loosen it - it was just too tight and the rubber just came right off when I took the socket out. Not only this, but as I tried loosening it (ANTICLOCKWISE) I heard a snap, crack and I hung my head.
if you mean the rubber coming out of the ign lead and staying behind, this is common too esp when they are soaked in oil. i also had this, but because i was using new leads i just picked at it with a pick (funnily enough) until it came off and then fished out the ripped up shreds of it.

if you mean the rubber from the spark socket? hmm

i tend to use one without the rubber in it, and a strong telescopic magnet to lift the plug because i dont trust them to not drop the plug and end up with porcelain in the cylinder and a dead plug.

Did I just do what I think I did? Heli coil time? Or did I break part of the plug itself? I can't see damage to the plug nor can I get it out.
hard to know :shrug: are you using a half inch power bar so you have some control and feel? making the job easier with a bigger tool gives you more finesse. i doubt that you stripped the thread trying to undo it. that usually happens when monkeys cross thread them on the way in or try to overtighten them. the plug is one piece from thread to hex, could it have been an extension or the ratchet slipping a little or something?

good luck.

fred.
 
#5 ·
Well guys, thanks to a mate of mine coming over to lend a helping hand the plug eventually came out.

I had managed to crack the think whilst trying to get it out. Why the hell people tighten them so much to begin with is beyond my understanding. When I heard the crack I was thinking head being stripped. As you can see in one of the pics, there is a bit of plastic that was broken.

I was worried that this would fall into the cylinder and this is where my mate came up with the old long screwdriver and some putty on one end trick... hey it worked and saved me a whole lot of trouble ;)

Will go and get new plugs the weekend. Also the socket I was using is getting replaced... the rubber inside is far too loose, it comes out with the least of effort meaning it would always get stuck on the plug.

1) The plug that was drenched in oil


2) The plug that gave me the most shhhhhh...


3) The damage. This kept me busy for a while.


Ciao
 
#6 ·
get yourself a good magnet on a stick and throw the rubber thing away! they are average at the best of times.

good that you got it all sorted.

would pay you to sort out that gasket at some stage so shes not flooded again next time you open it up.

as for retightening plugs, if they are new you should do this :

turn by hand until it comes up firm
put on a 3/8 ratchet or bar and turn steadily until it comes tight. that is the point when the crush washer has collapsed and it is at the correct torque then.

if its a preloved plug, you need to use a torque wrench to reinstall it.

get yourself some antisieze paste to put on the threads for reinsertion. makes life soooo much easier.

fred.
 
#7 ·
Update:
--------

Injectors:

====
Universal 400cc @ 3bar fuel injector
Uses standard Bosch fuel injector plugs, can be used to replace most standard length bosch fuel injectors.
Length: 70mm (From top to bottom sealing point)
====

- Can this be used on a stock FE? How much would I need to adjust pulse rate to get it to give fueling like stock injector at low duty cycle?

Fuel Pump:
====

15mm Fuel inlet, 10 mm banjo fitting.

Supplies 180 Liter fuel per hour @ 6 Bar
====

Will this work on stock fuel line of about 8mm? What work will be involved connecting this to smaller lines?

Cheers
 
#8 ·
the injectors are too big for NA and too small for turbo. esp if you use a gt35r, you'll need a set of 650 - 800cc jobs for that.

same deal with the pump, too big now and too small later.

also, the stock injectors are jecs and denso, not bosch, i doubt they will fit without mods. fe3 injectors are different to other denso jobs anyway, so you have to mod the rails to use rx7 ones or anything really.

the lines will be fine. its the return line that needs to be big enough to avoid pressure fluxuating...

fred.
 
#9 ·
When you say too big now (the fuel pump) do you mean that it can't be used at all? I was thinking maybe a Walbro 255 which is more than enough for both NA and Turbo?

Anyone have links to the Jecs / Denso injectors? When you say they are different to other Denso's do you mean that even purchasing these i'll need to mod them?

It sucks being in the middle of NA and Boost.
 
#10 ·
the fe3 injectors rail end is a different diameter, and the lengths of the bushings/seals are different too. you could use such a pump, but, it wouldnt be enough for a decent turbo setup and you dont need it now. you can definitely upgrade your fuel system before boosting, i fully recommend incremental tuning and adjustment for each change to verify it works right.
 
#12 ·
Thanks for that fred :) gives me an idea of what I could possible consider later.

While restoring my pride and joy i'd also like to tackle the squeeking noise I get when starting the car. It eventually goes away meaning it has to do with lubrication.

I have isolated the sound to be coming from the cam area. The cover is off because the engine mount that side kept knocking into in on sharp turns to the left ( THIS is why i need mountings - ANYONE... PLEASE )

So now that it has been off for a year or so I am thinking dirt and muck has got down there? How can I fix this noise? Only items I can see are the cam gears... everything else is further down and hidden to visuals.
 
#13 ·
just sounds like dry hard belts to me. get some crc beltgrip or similar and spary it on the accessory belts (never the cam belt) and see if the noise stops straight away. that stuff wears off after a little while, but is a quick fix. if it helps, your belts are hard and old. you live in a hot place, that cant help rubber last longer...
 
#15 ·
is your headgasket blown?

do you mean the cam cover gasket?

if your headgasket isnt blown, why change it? if you are changing it you should get the head surfaced and possibly the block too if you care a lot, either way is somewhere between a minor-major hassle and a complete rebuild.

if you dont use a torque wrench it will leak (which ever type you mean!)

you have to use one for the HG, but you can guess the cam cover...

fred.
 
#17 ·
Guys, my Prelude was gutted on the right hand side by a women trying to turn left from a lane or two next to my right while I was going across an intersection.

Seeing as though assesment is only next week I want to use the mazda so long. In order to get my FE running again I needed plugs. All I could get was BOSCH Super 4 FR78's

I know its mixing German with Japanese and well... Bosch has let me down before. Will these work though? I dont want to kill both my cars :(
 
#18 ·
if they are physically the same size and nose extension and thread depth and type they will probably be 'ok' in the short term, but dont beat on it too much incase they are too hot. or you could look up a conversion and find out for sure.
 
#19 ·
Guys I am shocked!

First off I am going to come right out and say that up until today I was a BOSCH sparkplug hater.

I am no more. Let me explain.

I've always been one for NGK plugs, Champion on classic cars. I could locate Iridium IX's which in anycase is a waste of money without ignition upgrades, I could find the BCPR6E's from NGK so instead purchased a pack of 4 Bosch FR78's (Not FR78X's) - they have four ground electrodes and one center electrode. Come pre-gapped as with most plugs these days.

Now for my application:

10:1 High Compression FE-DOHC
Gotech MFI Aftermarket Ignition and Fuel management
95 Ron unleaded fuel.

I experienced:

- Much more of a stable idle, instead of a slight hunt between 970 - 1000, I now have a 1000rpm idle when the motor has reached normal operating temps.

- Revs climb and rise MUCH quicker than the NGK BCPR6E's did. One would swear that i've upgraded the entire ignition, coil, wires and plugs. I am very impressed! Revs are also clean and crisp

- No more pinging! Ignition seems to be spot on for the fueling and car pulls nice and strong.

- All I can say is this has been the best R170.00 spent for plugs on the FE DOHC from my experiences. I wont go NGK's again for this particular motor.

- I am sure my fuel will burn better and give me better mileage.

You guys can try it sometime, it is really worth a shot at least.

Cheers
 
#20 ·
sounds like your ngks are stuffed.

champion are crap.

bosch are ok, but i'd take a denso or ngk anyday first.

iridium is not a waste of cash ever. they provide a lower arc voltage and last 100kkm with a properly tuned engine. they handle extreme heat better, and are just generally the bees knees.

i'm not knocking your choice, just saying that there are probably reasons why you observed what you did.

fred.
 
#22 ·
iridium is not a waste of cash ever. they provide a lower arc voltage and last 100kkm with a properly tuned engine. they handle extreme heat better, and are just generally the bees knees.
Just to be a pain. Since Fred made an unqualified absolute sweeping statement, in fact there are cases when Iridiums *are* a waste of Cash.

My '03 Corolla is only supposed to take Iridiums, which are supposed to last 100k miles (160k kms) - -yet, *twice*, in the nearly 60k miles (10k kms) that I've owned the car, I had to change the spark plugs. It improved power and fuel economy by non trivial amounts (~3 mpg a little less than 10 percent) vs the 30k old Iridiums. They definitely wear out, or rather, they don't last a full 100k miles like they are supposed to.

I have to replace those plugs every 30k miles, given they cost about three times as much as a standard NGK, which last about 15k miles or so on a normal engine, I'd say that the Iridiums don't make any economical sense. But, to be fair, that is comparing apples to oranges. I've only used Iridiums in my Toyota, and my Mazda's have only seen the standard NGK ZFR6FA-11...

Granted, this has nothing to do with the FE-DOHC, but the point remains, they *can* be a waste of cash.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Next on the list are my engine mounts, with this the cross member will need to be changed.

If I look at the old 1988 626, the front engine bay looks all too similar to mine, can anyone confirm that they are infact the same? Would anyone be willing to help me find FE engine mounts for my car?

Example of the car (mine has 5 doors and is a hatchback) Mazda 323

As far as I know we are looking for 3? One on the gearbox side, one where the slave cylinder is?? and one on the cam cover side. The cross member should have four bolt spaces if I am correct.

The other thing I require is a strut brace, any help with this also appreciated.

Ciao.

PS: The grounding kit is great :) I am happy that there have been no adverse effects and improved response. Didn't think it could work, but it does :) I'm now making these locally for people here at around R200.00 a set (+-40NZ$ / 30USD) excluding shipping. I am sure most of you can pre-fab a set (it's all about 30 - 40mins work excl. fitting) but maybe some of you dont have the time.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Bearings, Fuel pump and a damn good polish :)

It's me again :p

What did I do this weekend? hehe, well i've replaced front wheel bearings, they were so bad that the hubs themselves had some serious wear, this would also be the reason my entire caliper assembly was literally moving from time to time making a grinding noise every time I hit brakes.

I couldn't really take pics while bearings were done (for obvious reasons... oil/grease + camera's do not mix) but I did take a snap of my PowerBrake Die Hard Series II rotors ;)



I then proceeded to go polish up the car, buff it nicely to restore the shine. Well two polish coats later, this was the result :) Just look at here, not bad for a 13 year old car with no respray yet! I look after my things.





Then early this morning I got stuck on changing out my fuel pump with a VDO 3.6bar universal item. Well guys, opened it up and guess what... same pump inside, except a bosch part number...

Looks very similar to this one with a filter included.

 
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