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Nowhere near as full on as yours.

I have all the parts for the stroker bottom end. I dont think I am going to go as far with the top end, it will be more or less stock, just renewing worn parts. I am looking at a 7000rpm redline, maybe 6500, after all it will be boosted.
I havent had the R2 crank cross drilled...yet....I was waiting to see how yours turned out :D

Intersting re the ARP recommended torque on the head studs, After reading alot about the use of TTYs in the mazda diesels, I am starting to think that using normal bolts in conjunction with a MLS gasket might result in a quite variable head clamping force, owing to the fact that the MLS gasket is no where near as compressible as the composite one and may struggle with soaking up the expansion and contraction of the alumiium head.
It might be a case of regularly checking the tightening torque of the head studs.
Maybe the extra force they recommend compensates for some of it.

I am tempted to see if there are some TTY bolts (even the ones for an RF) that might fit the FE and FE3 and use them instead or ARP studs. I am thinking about experimenting with the 8v FET that currently needs a gasket.

As for the rest of the build, the turbo will be an evo4 unit on the standard Evo manifold with and adapter plate. (trying to make it look like a factory turbo complete with heat shield)

Management will be MS with the intention of being able to run on E85 at some stage in the future.

First priority is to adapt the toyota gearbox into the chassis and test it on the 8v turbo motor thats currently in there (if it holds out, it has a blown headgasket at present)

Realistically its about 12months away at the earliest. I cant afford to have the car not driveable when its time for its yearly inspection, so I'll break the project up into stages.

Budget...hahaha, I just buy bits as I go with whatever spare money I have, so the more it costs the longer it takes....I dont want to think about the budget too much or I will start thinking how I could have spent the money on other things.

I have been flat out trying to build a reliable DD, but thats done, once some of my work projects taper off I can start.
 

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Discussion Starter · #322 ·
RF head bolts have HUGE flanges, you need to cut them down to fit the DOHC head. They're probably the same length though.

If I had the chance to do bottom end again, I would use GM Ecotec 2.2l pistons and get custom rods to fit; they have 26.75mm compression height, so the rod/crank ratio would be far better than stock rods and lowered pistons, they also would be lighter, and since they are off the shelf items, I don't need to wait for half a year if I need a replacement. Making a set of one-off rods is a bit costly process though. There are Pug rods that are very close, but they are just a bit too short and the big-end bearings are too narrow and few mm too small in diameter.

I guess the moral is to do the study first... I could've had a better set and for less money. (There was other factors at play too but in the end it was my decision)

E85 is good stuff. Hopefully it hits the nation wide market here soon, I'm aiming to use that too. Who wouldn't love 7:1 AFR and 105 AKI!

And agreed on the budget, it's often best not to talk about it. Esp. if there's a risk the dear better half hearing about it :D
 

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Hmm, hadnt considered the pistons from a Z22se (i think its an L61 code in the US). Considering how dimensionally similar it is to a stroked FE3.

A mate of mine has a holden (opel) astra 2.2 SRi, which he is going to add a supercharger to. As I am helping him with the motor build, I might take a look at the pistons. He has some considerable knowlege about that motor. Apparently the Saab versions of the engine have some better components to cope with being boosted....I'll have to find out some more detail.

I have already got my pistons, and yeah I would not expect custom rods to be all that cheap or fast to have made. So I am not sure I would take this road, even though I havent started. I might cost it out just for a laugh.

but 26.75mm c/h is about as low as I have ever heard a production motor to have.

Maybe its a case of finding a rod thats got the right big end dimensions and a close length (+/-1mm) and skimming the piston or block and or using a brass small end bush if req'd .....althought I dont like doing that sort of thing on either count. it would be easier to have custom pistons done....they probably make them for the Z22se, so getting them to match a longer rod should not be too difficult
F8 DOHC rods would be close....I think theyre around 154mm long
Maybe offset grind the crank for a 95mm stroke....!
 

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Discussion Starter · #324 ·
95mm would sure be an exotic stroke mod :D 2.23 liters. I was originally considering titanium rods, but after getting the price quote I didn't bother anymore. It would've been, IIRC, way over $6000 for a set. One thing I really learned when looking for suitable rods is the FE engine has huge bearings.

The rod delivery was actually rather quick, just 4 weeks (pistons took 4 months), but as you know: fast, good, cheap; pick any two. At current going rate, the rods would be about $1300 or so (also the price you'd pay for *one* titanium rod) . Incredible is the company doesn't do any advertising, nor has e-mail or website.

A fellow member at the finnish Mazda club was building an almost identical engine to mine (though he had started the build half a year earlier) but he used the stock rods after the failed rod deal, and the end result was three bent rods and one broken. The block was punched through bothe sides, crank was badly scratched, valves were bent and broken, head warped and so forth. The entire engine was completely wasted along all his efforts, and now he's building a 4G63 with the same specs. 560 hp thus far. Can't blame him, it's such a scavenge hunt to find any parts for FE I'd probably do the same after such a catastrophic failure. He's doing 560 hp so far, and is working on a HX52 + SC12 twin charging setup.

I had missed his build thread and only recently discovered it, though he had been at it from summer 2007, a good 6 months before I started.
 

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Discussion Starter · #326 ·
Got a link for that thread STW? Would be keen to see some pics of this engine smashed to pieces :p
Sure, though you won't be able to read any of it ;) Fortunately there's quite a lot of pictures.

Mazda 929 ht -77 TIC

FE story starts from page 2 and ends in page six, and I was wrong the starting time, not half a year before me, but almost exactly one full year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #328 ·
STW. more information on the rod length(mm) you'd choose in combo to GM ecotec 2.2L pistons
Since the piston is 9.25mm lower than mazda's, and the increase in throw is 4mm, you'd want 5.25mm increase.

Thus C-C would be 155.25mm, pin dia 20mm.

An offset insert with F8 rods could be doable, but then again seeing what stock FE rods did to 929's engine, I'm quite reluctant to even consider it.
 

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so... if im following correctly

2.2 crank of some sort for the increase in stroke(throw). usually keeping the stock rods in this combo requires a custom piston.

if the ecotec 2.2L pistons have a lower compression height. can't this be lower CH mimic'd with aftermarket pistons as well & the rod changed to whatever?

Im paying for 10 sets of forged rods (standard FE length) but could also request 10 sets of 5mm longer rods down the road for stroker purposes.

a better rod ratio with the stroker is an ideal goal. next week we should chat on MSN again
 

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Discussion Starter · #330 ·
so... if im following correctly

2.2 crank of some sort for the increase in stroke(throw). usually keeping the stock rods in this combo requires a custom piston.

if the ecotec 2.2L pistons have a lower compression height. can't this be lower CH mimic'd with aftermarket pistons as well & the rod changed to whatever?

Im paying for 10 sets of forged rods (standard FE length) but could also request 10 sets of 5mm longer rods down the road for stroker purposes.

a better rod ratio with the stroker is an ideal goal. next week we should chat on MSN again
Correct, R2 or F2 crank with stock rods and pistons puts the pistons 4mm into the head, not good ;)

I think the lowest compression height Wiseco can offer is 26mm, so Ecotecs are about as good as it gets (of course, you can get ecotec pistons from Wiseco...) I think it's the best possible combination for the Stroker, but unfortunately a bit costly on the rod deal.

The company I got my rods from is one odd bird. They have no web site, not even e-mail, and I haven't seen them advertising *anywhere*. As far as I know their reputation is passed by word-of-mouth by the race and rally crews. I guess when the scene has all sorts of engines and mixed part engines, you can have such mode of operation.
 

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The rod delivery was actually rather quick, just 4 weeks (pistons took 4 months), but as you know: fast, good, cheap; pick any two. At current going rate, the rods would be about $1300 or so (also the price you'd pay for *one* titanium rod) . Incredible is the company doesn't do any advertising, nor has e-mail or website.
Hmm, I am in a quandry now....do I change the direction and do this, I still have time....do you have the contact details for these rod people ? if possible could you PM them to me.

A fellow member at the finnish Mazda club was building an almost identical engine to mine (though he had started the build half a year earlier) but he used the stock rods after the failed rod deal, and the end result was three bent rods and one broken. The block was punched through bothe sides, crank was badly scratched, valves were bent and broken, head warped and so forth. The entire engine was completely wasted along all his efforts, and now he's building a 4G63 with the same specs. 560 hp thus far. Can't blame him, it's such a scavenge hunt to find any parts for FE I'd probably do the same after such a catastrophic failure. He's doing 560 hp so far, and is working on a HX52 + SC12 twin charging setup.
there have a been a few people who have made similar amounts of power on stock rods with stock stroke...this must indicate just how much stronger the rods need to be on a stroker with low rod ratio.

I think if the FE3 had been sold in the US, where aftermarket support is good then there would be a similar number of parts available as the 4G63.
Wiseco make stroker pistons off the shelf for people using the 4G64 crank, which has a ridiculous 100mm stroke compared to our 94. these pistons have a 28mm c/h and a 22mm pin.

 

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Discussion Starter · #332 ·
aight peepl. Oil pump is installed, new water pump is due soon, the only thing holding up the engine rebuild is the flywheel seal, it was missing an aligning pin and to get one you need to order it... from Japan. Takes a few weeks still.

Also, my financial situation is getting better :) I'm hopeful to buy the turbo within a month or so! The engine will come off the stand once I get the flywheel end sealed up. I'm building a wheeled dolly for it, and the next thing gong on the engine stand will be the AWD transmission!

Also, I'm finally making the exhaust studs, I'll do a coverage on it as soon as I finish them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #333 ·
Alright, no studs today but I went shopping and bought this:



3" ports, a proper water/air 120x120x280mm core and decent construction, at 249 euros I think it was a good purchase, I'm just going to test it for leaks and then figure out how to fit it in the car...


Here's the shot of the core:

The water passages are much smaller than air passages, which is good.

There were many reasons to choose air-to-water setup, some more pressing than other. Firstly, I want to move the actual radiator in front of the radiator frame, so there would be very little space for the air/air unit. I also didn't want to block the radiator with the air cooler, and I don't need to run the plumbing through the frame. The intake temperature can also be better controlled (a big deal in the winter), the cooler has less pressure drop and the plumbing is simpler (though the overall complexity is higher).

The engine itself is slowly coming together, here's the situation today (29th of June):

 

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I am a big fan of water/air ICs too, I am not sure why there is such a bias towards the fitment of large air/air cores (maybe its more an appearance thing)

Technically theyre better suited to most turbo applications except maybe 100% circuit use/enduro racing

It'll be interesting to see where you fit it.....I have been looking at getting one...

My favoured option is to fit an inline type of core and sit it over the gearbox...but I dont know whether it'll fit there in practice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #335 ·
Good god, it's been two years since I updated this thread...

And, it's not going to be a major update this time either, but I've finally ordered the turbo. Holset HX50MFS. Promised to arrive in about 2-4 weeks, which according to previous experiences with summer schedules mean I should receive it in September.
 

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Discussion Starter · #337 ·
Can't remember the A/R, but the turbine housing is 19cm^2, I guess it's a bit over 1.0.

However, I will be having boost way sooner, thanks to this:

(not the final installation position)

Eaton M62 supercharger :D Twincharging setups are rare, and a bit to my surprise after searchign the web, somewhat controversial. Most other setups I've seen are parallel, meaning the charging method will shift between one and the other. This one will be compound charger setup; the turbo will feed the supecharger. Since a positive displacement chargers maintain a flat pressure ratio throughout the rev range, the engine+supercharger should appear as one huge engine for the turbo. The efficiency will be low though, only 50% at the highest. On the other hand the boost capabilities are enormous. The supercharger will be geared to 1.7 pressure ratio (something of a threshold after which the efficiency will start to drop dramatically) which means 0.7 bar/10PSI boost at sealevel; when the turbo hits the pressure ratio of 2 (1 bar or 15 PSI of boost) the result pressure ratio will be 1.7*2.0 = 3.4, meaning 2.4 bar or 35PSI (minus losses) of boost! The resulting air will be very very hot, so the Air/water IC will be put to good use. I might even have to install a true inter(stage)cooler to reduce the SC output temp.

And yeah, all that won't fit the standard engine bay. The radiator will be mounted inside the bumper. The cooling system will be topped through the reservoir tank, similar to Volvo and VW etc.
 

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Holy smoking tyres batman....what gearbox are you using in this thing again ?

Will the SC like hot air from the turbo blowing into it ?

Why not go twin turbos ? or seq. twins ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #339 ·
I was thinking about modding the hell out of the G5M-X (steel end plates all around, extra webbing, new shafts and gearsets, steel bearing race bushings, oil coolers et cetera), but with my current financial situation, I'm thinking about eBay and toy GT-4 transmission...
 
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