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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I think I heard about this while eyeballing the forums a while back,
I've always used complete gasket sets when I have done rebuilds in the past but something always, over time, leaks or weaps, granted boost raise the pressure in the motor, ie blow by and such so the entire motor internally see's a little pressure, the pistons also create pressure pulses inside the case when pumping up and down.

I dunno but I'm thinking a have a new rebuilt motor sitting my engine stand out in the garage that may be a good canidate for this experiment, Obviously the head gasket, valve cover, valve stem seals,exhaust manifold and disty o-ring would be OE gaskets but where aluminum/aluminum mates I think I might try it, like the water pump, rear main seal housing, disty housing, cam pulley housing, oil pan/pump and such.

But then again if I need all of the gaskets mentioned above it would be cheaper to just buy the gasket kit, 109.00 Top Line complete from importperformanceparts.net

What do you guys think?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I found this in a google search earlier,





Technical Bulletin
1/06
Use of RTV and Anaerobic Sealer For
Automotive Engines
The AERA Technical Committee offers the following information regarding the use of RTV
and Anaerobic Sealer for automotive-style engines. This information should be considered
before applying sealers during engine assembly.
Three types of sealers are commonly used in engines. These are RTV sealer, anaerobic gasket
eliminator sealer, and pipe joint compound. The correct sealer and amount must be
used in the proper location to prevent oil leaks. DO NOT interchange the three types of
sealers. Use only the specific sealer, or the equivalent, as recommended in the service
procedure.
Pipe Joint Compound
Pipe joint compound is a pliable sealer that does not completely harden. This type of
sealer is used where two non-rigid parts (such as the oil pan and the engine block)
are assembled together.
Do not use pipe joint compound in areas where extreme temperatures are expected.
These areas include: exhaust manifold, head gasket, or other surfaces where gasket
eliminator is specified.
Follow all safety recommendations and directions on the container. To
remove the sealant or the gasket material, refer to replacing engine gaskets in the
appropriate service manual.
Apply the pipe joint compound to a clean surface. Use a bead size, or quantity
specified in the procedure. Run the bead to the inside of any bolt holes. Do not allow
the sealer to enter any blind threaded holes, as it may prevent the bolt from clamping
properly or cause component damage when the bolt is tightened.
Apply a continuous bead of pipe joint compound to one sealing surface. Sealing
surfaces to be resealed must be clean and dry.
Tighten bolts to specifications. Do not over-tighten.
RTV Sealer
Room Temperature Vulcanizing (RTV) sealant hardens when exposed to air. This
type of sealer is used where two non-rigid parts (such as the intake manifold and the
engine block) are assembled together.
Do not use RTV sealant in areas where extreme temperatures are expected. These
areas include: exhaust manifold, head gasket, or other surfaces where a gasket eliminator
is specified.
Information is from best available sources and is accurate at the time of publication. However,
Jasper Engines & Transmissions ASSUMES NO RESPONSIBILITY and cannot be held liable for any
results or consequences regarding the use of this information.
RTV Sealer - continued
Follow all safety recommendations and directions on the container. To
remove the sealant or the gasket material, refer to replacing engine gaskets in the
appropriate service manual.
Apply RTV to a clean surface. Use a bead size as specified in the procedure. Run the
bead to the inside of any bolt holes. Do not allow the sealer to enter any blind
threaded holes, as it may prevent the bolt from clamping properly or cause damage
when the bolt is tightened.
Assemble components while RTV is still wet (within 3 minutes). Do not wait for the
RTV to skin over.
Tighten bolts to specifications. Do not over-tighten.
Anaerobic Sealer
Anaerobic gasket eliminator hardens in the absence of air. This type of sealer is used
where two rigid parts (such as castings) are assembled together. When two rigid
parts are disassembled, and no sealer or gasket is readily noticeable, the parts were
probably assembled using a gasket eliminator.
Follow all safety recommendations and directions on the container. To
remove the sealant or the gasket material, refer to replacing engine gaskets in the
appropriate service manual.
Apply a continuous bead of gasket eliminator to one flange. Surfaces to be resealed
must be clean and dry.
Spread the sealer evenly with your finger to get a uniform coating on the sealing
surface.
Do not allow the sealer to enter any blind threaded holes, as it may prevent the bolt
from clamping properly, or cause damage when tightened.
Important: Anaerobic sealed joints that are partially torqued, and allowed to cure more
than five minutes, may result in incorrect shimming and sealing of the joint.
Do not allow the sealer to enter any blind threaded holes, as it may prevent the bolt
from seating properly, or cause damage when the bolt is tightened.
Tighten bolts to specifications. Do not over-tighten.
After properly tightening the fasteners, remove the excess sealer from the outside of
the joint.
 

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my recommendation, use metal gaskets where mazda had 'em in the is't place. Eric (mazdameister) rec'd ultra-grey rtv for the oilpan ( works great btw) for pressurized things like coolant use what the factory says.:tup:
Also, if ya don't mind a little more cleanup when the time comes to change the gasket , I allways tack up all paper gaskets w/ indian head shellack. NEVER had one leak....ever;)
 

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Use felpro or Mazda Gasket kits, Top line is crap.
 

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Topline headgaskets are crap. The rest of thier gaskets are fine. I rebuilt my last motor with a Topline gasket kit from ipp.net and its holding strong, with no leaks whatsoever (Except I used a Felpro headgasket)
 

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Topline headgaskets are crap. The rest of thier gaskets are fine. I rebuilt my last motor with a Topline gasket kit from ipp.net and its holding strong, with no leaks whatsoever (Except I used a Felpro headgasket)
I often cut all the intake gaskets from a felpro sheet.. they never leek either but for the price why buy a felpro head gasket and a topline gasket kit? Just get the full felpro or Dealer kit, I would rather invest a few extra $ then have to change a rear main seal or any seal/gasket/valve stem seal that I recently put on.

Bad Monkey, even if you get a gasket set you will still need RVT gasket maker in some areas, the cam seats at the rear and front housing both require RVT, if you use an oil pan gasket, the tray above it requires RVT, the valve cover gasket requires some in in all 4 corners, the BAC/ISC controller gasket requires some on both sides before installing.......

With gaskets or gasket maker you will have leaks if things aren't assembled and torqued properly.
Find the workshop manual scans online here or buy one and follow all the assembly procedures and use a good torque wrench (I have met some pretty stupid Factory service technicians if they can follow the book everyone else can even Bad Monkey's.).
Defiler Knows not to trust Toplines head gaskets.
I won't even use Felpro oil pump seals anymore (dealer only) cause they tend to leak after red line staging at the drag track. Or like Rob (shop partner) who kept reving his engine in neutral to get it to boost over and over while installing a boost gauge (sending unit under the hood, wire to gauge...) I walk out of the shop after listening to 5minutes of this in the parking lot and see a long stream of oil running out of the oil pump seal the crank passes through, he burned the gasket, Stupid Rob, stupid fancy boost gauge, I got to pull the timing belt and .....

Torque everything to spec, let it settle a while and double check all the torques, especially the head gasket, if all you surfaces are clean and true then you will have no issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I already have a hussey .042 copper gasket and after I finish porting the head it will be off to casey's machine for the o-ring, deck and full build,

I used pipe dope from home depot to seal the copper head gasket without the o-ring head mod the first time and the replacement OE bolts ended up stretching due to a boost controller malfunction, ie 36psi spike of my old VF22 BB, center head bolts were 1/8" from touching the head upon disassembly and all 4 pistons were broke on the ring lands 2nd down from the crown, But, But the bomb proof F2T still got me home on 1.5 cylinders.

Any who the head gasket is covered this time with ARP and O-ring but its everything else I'm considering, I know RTV works on the windage tray and oil pan but what about the top end, everything that bolts to the head,

These would be required OE gaskets,
EGR metal gasket
Disty O-ring
Fel-pro exhaust manifold with fire ring
Cam seal
Front and rear main seals
oil pickup tube
And suitable t3 turbo gaskets that I already have


The OE oil pump is attached to the block with RTV now that I think of it, it has the O-ring around the pressure port going into the block but no gasket, just rtv, hmmm interesting

I deal with mechanical seals all day long at work, I build sub arctic oil drilling rigs for PHE in tooele and these machines have a shit load of hydraulics in them, technically I am a TIG welder/machinist/toolmaker by trade but I do Structural dual shield mig at this job and I am the team lead for the hydraulics, Think AN fittings, I deal with whats called JIC fittings same thing just different taper specs, I build the hard lines for hydraulic systems and then after the rig is painted my team goes through, builds the hoses/installs all of the fittings. I trashed 2 fittings this afternoon because they were out of spec and a possible leak, but enough of this going on, my point is we hold back as much as 5000psi spike pressures with no gaskets anywhere, O-rings on the valves are used but all hoses/fittings coming off the hard lines are JIC tapers,

I can't see our motors put out more than 5psi out of the crank case unless something is terribly wrong, even under boost with the blow by.

So if two surfaces are perfectly cleaned via bead blaster, perfectly flat and free of any contaminants when assembled this should work, JIC fittings vary quite a bit especially the china made ones my boss likes to force upon us because they're cheaper.

My buddy Sean that is a 5star master mechanic for chrysler/dodge uses the grey RTV every where when he replaces the cummins turbo diesal motors
and those monsters see pressures that our little tikes can only dream of, he told me the other night he replaced a motor because it only had 480 psi of compression in 1 of the cylinders, then he showed me the gauge which tops out at 1000psi, the highest I've seen in any of my motors was my KL at 163psi at 4200 feet above sea level

So the question remains, has anybody done it and did it work?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
what is indian head shellac?

I read on the interonet that alum/cast motors have a shearing effect on the head gasket, ie different expansion rates obviously but how does this effect the copper head gasket, i didn't notice and chaffing or rubbing marks on the old one just machine marks from where the head and block were decked, its probably one of those microscopic things the dealer can cop out on for build shit that only lasts 100k, ie GM website where i read it from
 

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I often cut all the intake gaskets from a felpro sheet.. they never leek either but for the price why buy a felpro head gasket and a topline gasket kit? Just get the full felpro or Dealer kit, I would rather invest a few extra $ then have to change a rear main seal or any seal/gasket/valve stem seal that I recently put on.
The Felpro gasket was free for me:shrug:


Also, the prices in the gasket kits were a LOT different. Like, $50 difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Fel pro complete kits range from 160-180
Top line- 109
Nippon reins 97


What do you mean the fel pro gasket was free for you?


I've never had a problem with any of the front/rear main seals or the cam seal

I've always had problems with the disty/thermostat housing to block, cam gear back plate to head and such, the ones I'm thinking of just RTV'ing
 
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