[hurddawg]

I just finished talking to a guy about a possible engine swap for us naturally aspirated 626/MX6s. What you would have to do is import a FE3 engine from either Japan, Europe, or Australia. These engines are the 2.0L DOHC 16v found in the 626/MX6s in the mentioned areas. The guy seemed very knowledgable about the Mazda engines as he has a engine swapability list and runs a Miata website. Well maybe that's not enough proof but you can see for your self at http://members.aol.com/solomiata/
Anyway, the engine blocks are nearly identicle. The only difference from what I understand is that the FE3 block is shorter. Otherwise the two engine blocks are the same.

The engine's redline is 7000RPM, a full 1000RPMs higher than the 2.2L thanks to the shorter stroke. The engine also has better high end HP because of the DOHC head. The engine also has forged pistons and crankshaft. The engine is rated at 140HP and 170Hp without catalytic converter. Dunno about torque. Don't hold me accountable to the HP figures because he said maybe, I'm currently getting inquires from the Holland MX6 club on what the HP ratings are.

The 2.2L transaxles do mount on the FE3 engine as well. The FE3 is VERY similar to the 97+ Kia Sportage engine, however the camshafts have different profiling for torque and the crank and pistons are cast. The blocks are also somewhat different (It's a Mazda engine though!). This engine is only for the non-turbo cars for one reason and one reason only, the 2.2L manifolds do not match up. You would have to sculpt your own manifold for the turbo to work.

Only one questioned is currently unanswered and it is about the ECUs I don't know whether or not the 2.2L ECU will work on the FE3. But I'll soon find out.

 

[Wayman]

I've always been curious if the 2nd gen. 2.5 V6 would be a bolt in in the earlier cars. Anybody know? I have a Turbo so I wouldn't be doing that swap in my car, but my friend has a '90 MX-6 N/A and the motor needs help. Just wondering if anybody has done the swap.
A 170hp DOHC 4cyl sounds like a good motor for a MX-6 or 626, does anybody have this swap? I've heard of doing the DOHC head swap on probetalk, but it sounds like getting the whole engine is a much more realistic solution.

 

[Apollo-Soyuz 1975]

That sounds quite interesting indeed. I would like to know the torque specs if you can find them, so I can benchmark them against the 2184 cc F2 engine. Also, how much would one of these engines cost?

 

[hurddawg]

I just found out that the ECU in our cars will work but there could be a few problems. One problem which can be easily fixed is the ECU rev limiter. The 2.2L is limited around 6K and the 2.0L is at 7K. A buying a superchip can remedy tht problem. Problem 2, The ECU will run the FE3 but the sockets (connectors) may be different. This is where we may need some more help from the Holland guys. Need snapshots and stuff. The guy did say that the ECU will indeed run the FE3. Good news. The bad news is that if the wiring connector is indeed different, you'd have to replace the whole dash harness most likely. If you ever try messin' around in there you know how its a pain in the @$$. Lets cross our fingers. This is what he wrote exactly:

Well, a F2 ECU will run a FE3 but you'll have to compare harnesses and ECU
pin layouts to see if it plug compatible or whether you'll have to swap
harnesses and sesnors. The redline will of course be less.

The guy I have been talking to is Randy Stocker. As of yesturday he has been selling one of his FE3s on Probetalk for $850. His user ID is RandyS.

To answer Wayman's question, I don't there is enough room to put the V6 in our engine bay. With a LOT of modification you probably can, you gotta be creative though. From what I've been looking at so far it is quite direct. I just need to find out if the exhaust manifold on the FE3 will align up with our car's exhaust system. and the ECU of course.
The head swap is a pain in the @$$ as well. The bolt pattern on the intake and exhaust are different. The head's can accept the F2 intake mainfold with alot of modding. The exhaust is apparently hopeless. Also because the our engine block is taller, it would dramtically decrease compression. You'd have 5:1 compression with the extra 14mm on top and the design of the head. Our engines use a closed combustion chamber while the FE3 head uses an open one. Because of this our pistons are dished slightly and the pistons found in the FE3 are DOMED. heh, it would be good for maybe 25psi of boost with 5:1!

I'll try and get the torque specs for you, I can give you the Sportage torque right now though, its 135. Its probably pretty close.

[Edited by hurddawg on 10-30-2000 at 01:33 AM]

 

[hurddawg]

Some more problems

I was just comparing my car and and a euro 626. I saw two things that would be a problem. One the vac advance is missing. Instead on the distrubtor, a connector is plugged in making me believe the advance is electronic. I could be wrong though. The other problem the thermostat housing is not on the front of the engine. In the photo I couldn't see the thermostat at all it could be lower on the engine. When I get a chance I'll take a ganders at a Sportage's engine compartment.

 

[anarchyx34]

Actually the ignition system might be similar to the turbo's. The turbo's dont have a vacuum advance. There's 3 crankshaft position sensors in the distributor, and the computer controls the timing totally. You actually might be stuck getting an aftermarket ignition system (or the parts from a euro 626).

 

[hurddawg]

I found a major problem with this engine swap I think. I just got word that the exhuast system won't align up with the FE3's exhaust manifold. You'd probably need a custom one made. Oh well it was worth a try.

No EGR, no knock sensor.

 

[antiSUV]

regarding a V6 swap into 1st gen.....

There already are V6's in 1st generation MX-6's guys! You could get an LX with the V-6 from the Ford Taurus in '92 for sure...a girl friend of mine has a 1st gen. LX Probe with this engine. It's performance is somewhere between the turbo and NA 2.2; probably about 8 seconds to 60 or so, judging by the seat of the pants.
Anyways, if you are looking to do a performance V-6 engine swap, perhaps the Taurus SHO engine would fit!!?? I think this is a Yamaha engine so it wouldn't be like you had icky Ford DNA in your car. Anyone thought of this?

 

[Wayman]

I knew the Probe came with the Vulcan V6, thats why I thought the K series 2.5 from the 2nd gen would work, there is enough room. I think the Mazda 2.5 V6 would be a better choice than an old Taurus V6. The Vulcan would bolt right to the GT's transmision, making for an easier swap than the K series, but 24 valves and a high redline sound more intruiging than the old Vulcan. I don't know if the swap is possible, but with the similarities between the newer MX-6's I think it would be possible - might need the tranny, and I'm sure the computer.

 

[hurddawg]

Interesting

I never heard anyone talk about putting a V6 in their 1st gen MX6. I figured that there had to be some serious problems in putting the engine in.

It may be possible that the K-series engines from the MX6's and Probes may fit, but here are some problem you would probably run into. The half-shafts, is the car wider or more narrow or the same between the two generations? Will the oil pan clear the front cross member? You'd have to modify the engine mounts most definitely. Is the spindle on the front wheels the same height? I just see a lot of problems with trying to put a 6 in the engine bay.

Was the Taurus engine easy to put in? The Taurus engine would be heavier and would you really see a performance difference? I guess with the SHO you would though. Seems a bit fruitless if the performance is only between the NA and Turbo. But the V6 does have more torque. 3.0L right?

I've mostly given up on this engine swap but I'll continue to look in to it. The ECU and Exhaust seem to be the only problems so far. It makes sense that the F2's exhaust wouldn't fit, mostly because the FE3 was a GT engine for the other markets. So I wonder how close the Turbo's exhaust is to the FE3?

 

[Wayman]

The 2nd gen is the same width, a 2nd gen strut tower bar fits a 1st gen with a little drilling (making the bolt holes the right size). I would think the half-shafts would fit. As for ride height, the 2nd gens are about one inch lower but otherwise basicly the same, so I think with motor mounts, transmision, and a computer it should bolt in and kick - ass!!

 

[hurddawg]

With 164 or 200 Horses I imagine it would kick ass. Now what would you do about the other two injectors? Add wiring yourself? or buy an engine wiring harness from a 2nd gen.
Are you talking theortically, like it would be cool or actually plan to proceed with it? If you plan to please keep me updated I would like to know how to do it as well!

 

[Wayman]

My ideas for the 2.5 are purely theoretical -I am quite happy with my Turbo's performance, but just was wondering if anybody had done such a swap.

 

[hurddawg]

well, it ends up the exhaust on the FE3 may match up to the existing exhaust systems in our cars (minus the F2's manifold) . The guy I was talking to, thought I was asking whether the Miata exhaust sys matched-up. I may decide to work and buy me some car parts. hmmmm.....

I was curious, what type of differences does the MSD ignition have on performance compared to stock?

[Edited by hurddawg on 11-03-2000 at 12:14 AM]

 

[anarchyx34]

The miata exhaust definitely wont fit since the Miata's a rear wheel drive car, so the manifold would be shaped differently, and the miata has a B series engine. You may have to get one custom made.

 

[hurddawg]

the FE3 is an F series engine....