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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
B2600 head-why hasn't anyone used one?

I was at the yard today and took a good look at a B2600 head that was already taken off the block and why hasn't anyone used one? I was looking at the timing belt side and there is a spot where the coolant waterneck attaches to the head that can come off- clean off and doesnt have to be used- you just have to cut it off. My thinking is that if an F2 head can be used on a B2200 then the B2200 head can be used on the F2 the same way- with modification of course. But what about the B2600?

Maybe use the F2 cam caps and or have ones machined to work and hold the F2 camshaft?

Now- WHY?

Well, the combustion chambers appear a lot larger in CC's than the F2 heads...AND there is a LOT of aluminum that can be ported/polished out as well. My thinking is along the same lines as the B18 blocks using the B16 heads- you use the B16 head because the chamber volume is larger and with that simple extra volume of the head chambers gives you somewhere in the vicinity of 1.8-.9'ish L with something pretty simple.

What I was wondering is if thinking outside the box could give F2T blocks 2.3-2.4L with say 87mm bore and that extra chamber volume.

The next thing is- who has one that they can take pictures of- Carbage? Anyone? Beuller?
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
On second thought now that I think of it, this was a 12v head and the B2200 is 8v right? This head was already in the engine bay of a B2200 that had the head removed. The bolt holes lined up and the valve cover was Mazda but now that I think of it the timing belt seemed oddly placed. Maybe someone else was wondering the same thing and just happened to put it there? I need to go back and take moar pict0rs!

Now WTF was it?

EDIT: 4cyl MPV or 2600 head maybe? Those are both 12v SOHC. Bore is 91+ mm though. :shrug:
 

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the b2600 was a Mitsubishi motor and the b2000 was the fe-sohc. both the b2000 and b2200 i believe are 8 valve engines though, and are carb'd unless you can find the efi version that was introduced in 91-92ish.

regardless adding extra chamber volume would lower the already ridiculously low c:r right? maybe i'm missing something here. ill double check my facts later, i'm eating atm.

edit: double checking the b2600 and the 4cyl mpv are the mazda g motors.
Mazda G engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yeah but the head fit the block- the pins all lined up too along with the oil drain for the head and water holes for the block- everything lined up up top at least. As far as compression ratio if one were to undertake this anyways....it would need to be modified and so would the pistons. The point really was that with enough effort this probably could work.
 

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The B2200 heads are an 8valve. The 8valve inlet flange pattern is different to 12valve. Meaning you'd either have to build a new inlet to suit, or go back to an FET setup....

B2600 head would be interesting, but again custom inlet, etc.
 

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Bore and stroke are the only factors that account for displacement.

Larger chamber heads on a 2.2L motor will result in a 2.2L motor... with larger chambers.

Now if you can get the 2.6L motor (Mazda not Mitsu) bolted in to the GD chassis that would be something :) And if the F series head will swap on to the G series motor , well that just oppens a lot of doors.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
ls six said:
Bore and stroke are the only factors that account for displacement.
Bullshlt. You must also account for the chamber volume, this is how 1.8L B series end up with higher than 1.8L of displacement using 1.6L heads. Case in point- The Frank swap- adding a VTEC B16A or B18C head from a Del Slo, a Civic Si or an Integra GSR to an LS, non-VTEC B18B or a CRV B20B or B20Z botom end.

The LS B18A and B18B engines have a bore and stroke of 81x89mm, which gives you 1834cc. The B18C's have a 81x87.2 bore and stroke which gives you 1797cc displacement. The smaller B16A has a bore and stroke of 81x 77.4 for a displacement of 1595cc.

By putting the VTEC head on the LS bottom you pick up 35ccs over the B18C and 239cc more tq producing displacement over the B16A. This is not rod swaps, or crank swaps, it is straight more volume in the combustion chamber due to the combustions chambers themselves.

Same thing with the H22, you can swap the head alone and your displacement will be 2.3L.

ls six said:
Larger chamber heads on a 2.2L motor will result in a 2.2L motor... with larger chambers.
Bullshlt. See above!

Now Using the formula:

CCV+ HGV + DH+ PDV + CV
CCV + HGV + DH + PDV = Compression Ratio

Where

CCV = Combustion Chamber Volume
HGV = Head Gasket Volume (compressed)
DH = Deck Height of the Piston Crown
PDV = Piston (Dome or Dish +/-) Volume
CV = Cylinder Volume

or Volume = pi R^2 x height...or the easiest version (yours)

Bore^2 x stroke x 0.7854 = Cylinder Volume in which case you'd say
ls six said:
Bore and stroke are the only factors that account for displacement.
in which case I'd call BS or Douchebaggery- you pick!



ls six said:
Now if you can get the 2.6L motor (Mazda not Mitsu) bolted in to the GD chassis that would be something :) And if the F series head will swap on to the G series motor , well that just oppens a lot of doors.
EDIT: I agree. PS- Oppens has one p. ;)

Here are some pictures I could find from sites:

.................................................cut this part off^

Change the camshaft caps (if you have to?) and the end caps for F2 ends- cut as need be to get the camshaft to work- either bolt on or TIG.

Here is the gasket for the 2600:


Here is the F2:



Anyone wanna photoshop them on top of each other?

Everything seems to line up except the oil drainage- if you were taking this on this would be the least of your concern- have a shop add more material to the back of the head, drill and add new oil drainage as needed and have it plained true.

Now as far as the intake mani, look here:
http://www.mx6.com/forums/1g-mx6-forced-induction/170950-b2600-throttle-body-question-kyrasis6.html

Here is the B2000/B2200 intake manifold set:



Here is the B2600 intake manigfold set:



Here is the MX6 intake manifold gasket set:


Keep in mind that a lot of that paper gasket from the lower intake manifold to the F2 head doesnt get used/isn't needed.

EDIT: In the end I think you'd use an F2 intake manifold and plenum. I'm very tempted to just buy a G6cylinder head now.
 

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Sorry SixSick6 but I have to disagree with you there.

Dispacement has nothing at all to do with chamber volume in any way.
It is simply the swept area of the engine.

BORE X BORE X STROKE X .0031416 = DISPLACEMENT (for a 4 cyl engine)

Example: 92 x 92 x 82 x .0031416 = 2180cc


And your formula for compression ratio is wrong too.
The correct formula is;

CCV+ HGV + DH+ PDV + CV
CCV+ HGV + DH+ PDV = Compression Ratio

CCV = Combustion Chamber Volume
HGV = Head Gasket Volume (compressed)
DH = Deck Height of the Piston Crown
PDV = Piston (Dome or Dish +/-) Volume
CV = Cylinder Volume

In words the compression ratio is expressed as;

umcompressed volume
compressed volume

I think that the reason the HONDUH camp call their Frankenstein engines a different capacity without bore or stroke changes is because they are
HONDUH TUNERZ YO!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I wrote the same formula as you, I just didn't put a C in the bottm CCV- it's fixed.

Besides- Ls Six spelt "oppens", and I spelled spelt fer lulz~

As far as CC of the engine, you take everything into account including the combustion chambers and if one has more than the other...you have x more CC's. In the case of the B18 and B16 heads, the B16's chambers have greater volume. When you add that greater volume in, you know have an engine that displaces more than 1.8'ishL...but closer to 9 than 8. Ours is 2184cc and it's a 2.2 same difference.
 

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No you dont' displacement is just that how much volume that the engine dispaces, IE sweeps.
It makes no difference how much combustion chamber volume, piston dish, head hasket thichness, there is.

Do some research on it a then recant your last statement.

Edit guess what 86*86*94*.0031416..... 2184
 

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Looks to be a chain drive G6 head....

AFAIK somebody once turboed a G6 but it was very prone to detonation....it was stuck into an HB 929

sure, mazda used mitsubishi 4G54 motors until they got the G6 built.....

Probably be better off with a 4G54, I know they can take boost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
chief tool said:
Looks to be a chain drive G6 head....
Yeah I believe it is. What I was wondering is whether or not the F2 camsahft could be fit with machining the caps and using F2 end caps on the timing and disty side. You might be able to MAKE it work!

chief tool said:
AFAIK somebody once turboed a G6 but it was very prone to detonation....it was stuck into an HB 929
Well it's still a 12v sohc design...but the combustions chambers are cloverleafed and a lot of that can come off and be made close to the look of an F2. The valves are in the same place but the chamber itself looks a lot larger....and that is what got me wondering.

chief tool said:
sure, mazda used mitsubishi 4G54 motors until they got the G6 built.....

Probably be better off with a 4G54, I know they can take boost.
But that isn't whats going on here. I'm trying to think outside the box and come up with something new that VERY WELL...COULD WORK!

Here's another good link:
http://www.mx6.com/forums/1g-mx6-other-performance/89496-p-p-my-combustion-chamber.html

Here is a good shot of the B2600 head:


If only there was an underside shot. :(

Here's a bare one of the block:


The valve cover is nicer too!


DAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN, look at this guys B2600!

SDS EM-4: Project Page

I'd lose the rims but....NICE!

 

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What I'd like to know is did the G6 use roller follower rockers just like the Mitsu 2.6Lt.
And or solid lash adjusters.

I'd rather make a roller cam & rockers work in the F2 head than make the G6 head fit the F2
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Nope. HLA's just like the MX6.- making it closer and easier to actually do. The head lined up besides the obvious (the oil drain from the head- that timing chain section on the end which can come off, the coolant which can be cured using different coolant necks...say from a 323 or possibly an MX6- but it lined up, at least the pins did!

What I havent checked is an F2 HG on the face side of the G6 head. I'll bring one and take pictures.
 

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Compnut that picture is AWESOME. You get Reputation.

As per a decent reply, this sounds like a great deal of modification. Does the theory craft suggest it will gain a significant amount of performance? Or is this just another LOLWTFBBQSAUCE?

Whats wrong with the F2 Head? Its on 250-350hp F2's, granted thats a "select" few who dont carry the Hi my name is Broken/Tuner/Drifter and I work on FWD cars and fix them and stuff.

Soooooo...

\_(o_O)_/
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Well as it turns out, it won't work. The pins do line up, the camshaft can be installed, but the exhaust valves on one end won't work even though everything lines up...the exhaust valve on one side would hit the headgasket. Most of the holes in the head itself fit the F2 HG fine..until you try to get it perfect and then everything is off again. Mainly I was curious due to the size of the combustion chambers and the fact that they're cloverleaf (sort of) rather than the slanted egg that the F2 head has. FWIW the exhaust valves seem larger too.

This is courtesy of Lambera:


And these are courtesy of ZE Freak:





Twoulda been nice. :(



Nice right?
 
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