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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Just as it says I want to use Autotune but it seens since I have a PnP and can not tie in a Wideband at this time because the one I bought has no datalogging it seems... I could use some help getting closer so Autotune can start getting information and tune.

(For that matter I am still playing with it and I am not sure I even have it working yet... but I was told the fact its way to rich might mean it can not start working yet).

All I want is a Picture of your VE Table and I will take it from there and fine tune it.

I have:
ZE Motor
CZT IM
Mike Seli Cams:
0.362" lift, 214deg @ 0.050", 264deg (adv.) for the intake cams
0.353" lift, 209deg @ 0.050", 262deg (adv.) for the exhaust cams

So pref a ZE with some Colt Cams would be a GREAT place to start.

Thanks so much!!

---My Current Settings---


 

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Cross, you can't really fine tune it without a wideband. I suggest you get a wideband and controller and wire it up to your MS :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have a wideband, As I said. And Kirk Rocks.

The problem is this is a Plug and Play so its hard wired to the unit not one I can just rewire.

The second is I bought a Wideband that did not say it could not data log. My fault for not asking but then I kinda assumed that was the point of a wideband. I am sure I can find a way to tap it and figure out the wire to cut and splice but I would pref not to molest this system.
 

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If you have a wideband and MS is reading it, correct? Or is it wired up without the input from the WB?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I did not wire it its a plug and play unit which means Ryan took a stock ECU and connected everything Inside the Stock OBDII ECU itself. Hints why I can't tap in as easily and why I don't want to without messing up what he did.

Secondly the wideband does not have a data out line which means I need to tap the signal wire but at this point since I don't have a connector to give it I had not really been worried about trying to do so.

On a side note using Auto tune and changing some myself I have the Idle at 14.3 to 15.3 it seems to move some probably due to the cams but considering I just started thats not surprising. While driving (I took it to 4 k very slowly in 1st and 2nd going around my neighborhood and then letting it slow down using the motor it was around 12:1 to 13:1. So were making progress. I have been burning the tune every time so for now the idle is better and Autotune should be getting some info but I need to be able to have someone else drive while I tune with it and it should be golden after that.

Starts right up every time I love it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well I have been making progress on mine. I am trying to include Autotune in the lower RPM's currently.

So how about a spark table too?

I will even take a Stock DE table if I can get a look at it for some of the other area's of the table I have not hit yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
THANK YOU!!!!

I thought those were for Super Charged ZE's I was ignoring them lol.

Those do look like Boosted Files or is it just me the timing tables change a lot and the top end fuel levels are really high compared to where I have it now with the timing from you NA KLDE I am running in the 40's and low 50's for the lower part of the table.

I can post pics to make it easier if you want but they just seem to be off since the ZE one is in the 60's and the top goes into 135 where my top hits alittle over 100 and I have not fully tuned there and I am still getting 12:1 and sometimes into 11:1 on the wideband.

---On a side note I again can not click the save button in the quick edit....---
 

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They are for a supercharged car. You should still be able to run the car on the fuel table. Importing the spark table probably isnt the best idea though.

Are you trying to squirt a NA ZE? Boost in the future? I might be able to dig some files up but everything I got is on my computer in the states.



When I first squirted my car NA I was using the tables for a boosted car. The only real thing that happens is you loose resolution in the tables because you never use the portion that is designed for boost. If you really wanted, take that fuel table. Ignore \ Delete the boost portion of it, and then "stretch" the table to full resolution and add in values every other cell that are an average from the above and below cells.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yes an NA ZE with cams and weird IM lol.

Basically though I was just looking for ZE Base maps and timing maps and some help from others NA with mods so I could see how they went and compare it to mine for just some basic guidence on what to look at and for.

Any help you can give is a HUGE help to me, I would offer to buy you a beer or a few but your not in the states lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Any luck yet? I am going nuts trying to get some other ZE members to post but it seems I am one of a lonely group using MS and no FI.

I keep playing with the Fuel Map but until I get something else to look at NA I am not sure I want to touch the Timing.

To top it off instead of getting better gas mileage I got 200 this tank... I am not happy and the wideband has read at 14.7 most of the time so I am lost.
---My Current Settings---


 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
SO I started playing around and seeing a real rich spot so instead of playing with Autotune any more I worked on changing the map myself.

I came up with this: (I modified it again after letting Autotune play with it tonight sorry if its a little strange I keep trying to make it better)


I then let autotune take a crack at it...:


I am starting to think Autotune sucks.... or its just me who knows.

Anyway Any thoughts Stealth?

---UPDATE---
SO I decided to play with the map and possibly screw up even worse but oh well I am tried of asking for maps and seemingly being the only nut running MS while NA lol. So heres what I made based off the numbers around it and trying to gauge the numbers of the original map:
Modified version of my Prior Map:


I went for a short in town drive never went over 45. It seemed to run lean 16.5 at some points so I went into the tuning menu and after remembering the "q" & "w" setup made some changes while driving,
Modified Driven:


Ok so thats my progress, tomorrow I will drive it to work across town and see how it does. I will have the tuning window open incase I need to make any changes. Maybe if I get it close I can switch to Autotune and see how it does.. or if I can figure out how to get signal from my Wideband (Which wire since it does not have a data out) to my MS I can set it up that way.
 

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Just a few things to clarify.

Your EGO correction is turned off?
You have modified the the autotune settings in the custom.ini?
You have set the AFR target table for your O2?
You have your wideband hooked up to the Right/Rear HO2S wire I posted about in your other thread?


The biggest problem with running autotune is that (I think) you still have the narrow band sensor hooked to the MS. If you have a wide band but it is not hooked up to the MS you will have to do all your tuning manually. You will see the narrow band leap and bound all over the AFR, and autotune will just tune up and down, up and down again. It doesn't know how to make an accurate correction without an accurate feedback.


Running autotune at this point (until the WB is hooked up and working) you are probably going to do more harm than good. If you really just want the WB as a gauge, and dont want to mess with hooking it up to the MS then you should just start tuning manually.



First step in my opinion is get that WB hooked up and running properly. Ill post the info here again for everything you need to get it hooked up.

Stealth said:
clip wires, 18 on C247, and 20 on C248.

96 GT MS PnP Info


From my emails with Ryan, he uses the Right / Rear 02 as the primary, so that is the pin you would want to hook your wideband up to. Pin 18 on plug C247.


After that is finished you need to modify your settings.ini file to set up properly for your wideband unit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Just a few things to clarify.

Your EGO correction is turned off? Settings for my EGO are pictured above
You have modified the the autotune settings in the custom.ini? Correct
You have set the AFR target table for your O2? No, no wideband hooked up, maybe I was confused but I thought that was only for use with the wideband.
You have your wideband hooked up to the Right/Rear HO2S wire I posted about in your other thread? No, see reason below
I know but the problem is not that I do not wsnt touse it Stealth, its that it has NO Data out line. I have no idea which line to use or what side I should tap to get signal, the side before the gauge coming from the O2 itself (Wideband) or the Side going to the gauge.

What do you think? Its the Glowshift model off eBay. Not an LC-1 etc like I should have gotten.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
And here is todays work, what I made for this morning:


And here is after some driving and seeing I had things alittle too lean in area's:


Who knows if I am making progress but there we go.
 

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Well, Autotune runs off the target tables, and tries to get as close to the target AFR as possible. Even if your tables were all setup for narrowband data, at 14.7 AFR, its still an innacurate feedback reading and you wont get a good tune off of it.

So there is no physical analog out signal from the gauge? Or you just dont have the documentation so you dont know what wire it is?

You cannot tap into the wiring between the WB 02 and the Gauge, because it will split the amps in half between the gauge and MS. At this point it sounds like all that WB is good for is a reading, You will have to manually tune your tables and watch the gauge by eye until you decide to buy a wideband unit that has analog out :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I was afraid of that... Oh well Dyno runs here I come.

And yes it has no data out, it did not say it did not in the listing but to be fair it never said it had it either. It just said it was the newest version out, etc which I took to mean it was a step forward but thats my fault.

Anyway I guess lets just see what you think of my tuning and go from there. I have no choice it seems.

On the wideband what I was thinking of was disconnecting the gauge and sending it straight and only to MS but who knows if that would really work.
 

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One thing I just noticed now, is your EGO step size is 1% You would want to set that to 0 to disable it, or else set it active above 9000 RPM's whichever you choose. You are always going to want the EGO correction disabled when tuning because you dont want to have to fight against that extra variable.

Once your tune is nice and close with EGO Corr Off, you can turn it back on if you choose to do so. I was able to drive mine for a 120 mile trip without having the EGO correction on. I actually have never turned mine back on because I still haven't finished tuning it yet :lol:

Try setting that step size to 0 and then tuning manually you will find it much easier because your changes are directly seen on the WB gauge, instead of the AFR bouncing around due to the EGO correction.




As far as the WB hooked up directly, you will need to do some more investigation or get some documentation on the manufacture of the sensor. Then you will have to #set WB_UNKNOWN and #unset NARROW_BAND_EGO in the settings.ini file. I am not sure what else entails switching to an unknown wideband, so your going to have to research it from there. Probably just easier to buy a new sensor / controller that is recognized by MS. ;)
 

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If you still are looking, try PMing Jarod7920 on Probetalk. He just tuned a ze with colt 218s and s injectors last summer...
 
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