Mazda MX-6 Forum banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
G

·
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I ordered a MSD Blaster 2 Coil and the instructions say I need a certain resistor if im installing it without a complete MSD system. Now my question is if this resistor is really necassary because I have seen them installed on this site and other sites with and without them and if there is a performance difference? I have already ordered the resistor so if it is really neccassary no big deal but if it isnt I can save myself a whole $10.
Dominic
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
The resistor is for points ignition systems. You dont need it. Just FYI The factory stock e-core coil puts out more volts than a MSD Blaster 2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
I do not have the resistor, I was told it was not necessary. I change my coil at the dragstrip. I ran 16.4 stock 3 times, I then swapped in the Blaster2 and ran 16.2, with no other mods at all. The voltage being the same, I've never heard of that. I would like to see some info on that. It seems hard to believe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
I dont want to piss people off cuz everyone here seems to be in love with the blaster 2. The reason the stock e-core is better than the "performance" blaster 2 is simply technology. An oil filled canister coil is old, used for over 70 years technology. I posted something about this before but i cant find it.
Im interested on how you measured volt output?
I measured a bunch of aftermarket canister type coils including a blaster2 on my 6. I used a sun digital automotive ocilloscope to measure Ignition output voltage and duration. The stock e-core beat em all in all aspects. The blaster 2 could be better than the stock coil if your stock coil was starting to go bad. It is 12+years old after all. So i guess i should rephrase my statement. A new stock e-cor will put out more volts than a new blaster 2.
Why not just go for the blaster ss?
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ive read you many posts on how everyone noticed a definite improvment when they switched to the Blaster 2 so thats all i have to go by, but if youve done the researce you should post your results so people like myself can at least give some thought into getting anew stock e-core instead of an MSD unit.

Appreciate the info
Dominic
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
I wish i had the printouts to scan and post but i dont. Need proof of the efficency of an e-core over a oil filled coil, Just look and find how many new factory cars come with e-core coils. Just do some investigating in to ignition coil design and the superiority of the e-core design will become more obvious. Like i said just about all the stock e-core coils people are compairing are 12+ years old. So it doesint suprise me that people are getting gains from a blaster 2. Most of the original e-cores are probly well on there way to going bad. I also read on how people got improvments but most of there tests are based on 2 or 3 drag strip runs or on the butt dyno, not very accurate measuring tequniques. If you got 2 tenths on your stock car with just a coil change then something was wrong with your original coil. Just give your 6 what it deserves and at least install another e-core. The aftermarket has lots of e-core coils with fancy stickers and catchy names if thats important to you. But if you just need a cheap replacement then theres nothing wrong with the blaster 2.

To go with the blaster 2 you should also take out your electronic ignition system and install a nice "high performance" dual point ignition system. jk
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Damn your pretty passionate about the e-cores aren't you. I believe you I was just saying you should put them on here for all to see.

Dominic
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Marutek said:
I wish i had the printouts to scan and post but i dont. Need proof of the efficency of an e-core over a oil filled coil, Just look and find how many new factory cars come with e-core coils. Just do some investigating in to ignition coil design and the superiority of the e-core design will become more obvious. Like i said just about all the stock e-core coils people are compairing are 12+ years old. So it doesint suprise me that people are getting gains from a blaster 2. Most of the original e-cores are probly well on there way to going bad. I also read on how people got improvments but most of there tests are based on 2 or 3 drag strip runs or on the butt dyno, not very accurate measuring tequniques. If you got 2 tenths on your stock car with just a coil change then something was wrong with your original coil. Just give your 6 what it deserves and at least install another e-core. The aftermarket has lots of e-core coils with fancy stickers and catchy names if thats important to you. But if you just need a cheap replacement then theres nothing wrong with the blaster 2.

To go with the blaster 2 you should also take out your electronic ignition system and install a nice "high performance" dual point ignition system. jk
At what RPM did you conduct these measurements? I found with the stock E-core and an upgraded turbo I was having trouble making power from about 5000-6000rpm (Remember, I had both a highflowed head and a 450cfm turbo, so I made power up there). A change to a Blaster 2 coil made the car a whole different animal at high RPM.

I believe you about the E-core coil putting out more power at low RPM, but I think as your rev higher I don't think it can keep up.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,040 Posts
FlySwat said:
stock E-core ... was having trouble making power from about 5000-6000rpm ... change to a Blaster 2 coil made the car a whole different animal at high RPM.
How old was the stock coil? How old was the MSD?

FlySwat said:
I believe you about the E-core coil putting out more power at low RPM, but I think as your rev higher I don't think it can keep up.
Last I checked, the speed at which electrical charge travels (something along the lines of 186,000 miles per second) was consistent between stock and aftermarket ignition systems.

I'm not as certain about the speed at which magnetic fields collapse -- maybe some engineer can quote us from the flux capacitor bible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
737 Posts
SleepCounter said:
How old was the stock coil? How old was the MSD?
That was my next question. Were both coils brand new, never used? There is a good point about the stock coil possibly going bad on my car, I don't doubt it one bit. I must ask if the stock coil tested on the 6 was original or if it was a mazda OEM brand new replacement. Just to make sure there was a fair comparison.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,013 Posts
Anyone know how much a mazda-made coil costs?

I used to work with a guy who told me to stay away from aftermarket ignition systems until you really get up there in power and tuning. Sometimes the aftermarlet pieces can actually cost you power. I think it was HotRod Magazine who did a test on aftermarket ignitions (Crane, Jacobs, MSD...) and the dyno showed an acctual loss in power on a stock engine.

Though, an increase in cylinder pressure would require more voltage to make the spark, right? And I'm sure just like any electronic device the coil has a rated output and a peak output. Running the stock coil at higher output than it was desgined for would necessitate a more powerful (higher rated) coil to maintain reliability and spark integrity, would it not?

Damn, can't we all just chip in and buy a dyno, then we could test and test all day long...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,655 Posts
alot of coil will need a resistor, WHY?? casue it will protect the cuircit, and some cars might have an external resistor for the coil, and some have internal resistors for the coil. casue if u dont protect the cuircit, u might over heat the wires, and melt them, then u will have pop corn.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
SleepCounter said:

Last I checked, the speed at which electrical charge travels (something along the lines of 186,000 miles per second) was consistent between stock and aftermarket ignition systems.

I'm not as certain about the speed at which magnetic fields collapse -- maybe some engineer can quote us from the flux capacitor bible.
Maybe I should rephrase.

I think the additional air/fuel at 5500rpm was blowing out the spark (Even on .38 gapped plugs) at stock voltage. Running the MSD blaster 2 appeared to give me a stronger spark, allowing it to have a better burn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,719 Posts
could someone explain to me why an e-core is better? I just installed blaster coil 2 and am pleased with it.

When you say "old oil filled" what do you mean? The oil is there as a coolant. A coil is a coil. The purpose of the coil is to up the voltage, same as if you need an adapter from 120v to 240v. The msd coil just has more windings and therefore induces a higher voltage. Have you seen the stock unit? It is tiny. They both are coils, and the msd is probably three times as large, with I would guess almost twice the coil ratio.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,040 Posts
just wondering

TiZBaD99 said:
The msd coil just has more windings
How many more?

TiZBaD99 said:
and therefore induces a higher voltage.
How much higher?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,040 Posts
Re: Re: just wondering

FlySwat said:
An advertised 45,000.
45,000 higher than stock? Not certain i wanna buy into that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,719 Posts
no i wouldnt buy that either, I have a feeling the stock coil puts out about 27k volts and the msd peaks at 45k volts, however you cant look at it like speakers peak output. The spark is delivered to each plug consistently so I would say that each plug does get 45k volts.

I dont know how many coils the stock coil has. But the way you figure out induced voltage is V=Nx(d-theta/dt) V is voltage, N is number of coils and the (d-theta over dt) is somthing to do with the tightness of the coil. Also the distance between the center of the coils and the outside of the outmost coils makes a difference. there are too many factors to say for sure.

What makes the most difference is the amount of time required for the coil to reach its peak output.

I have no good info on either coils so im not going to say much more. But I think that the msd def produces more peak output than the stock unit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,655 Posts
and who said that spark plugs get all 45k volts every time they spark, your plugs get anywere from 12-16k voltes at each time they spark.

peek power means that this is the amount that this coil can produce before things start to melt from heat. a coil can produdce 100k volts, but when it dose, it will be fryed.

and the coil will produce enough voltage to jump the gap from the core of the sparkplug to the electrode on the plug. so it will only send that much voltage, if the gap could be jumped in 12-16k volts, y send 27k volts, there wont be a need for them, and would be a wast.

and if u wanna ask me were did i get my12-16k volts #'s, well i had my car hooked up to scope, and i was able to read this stuff. and i was able to see what kind of voltage my plugs were getting.

and from that i found out that my wires are little bad, cause i had cyl 1-2 getting 12-14K voltes, while cyl 3-4 were getting 6-8k volts, and this is a little low. what could it be? mayeb the plug gap, or corrosion on the plug, or maybe the power is finding a short to ground that is easyer to jump than to jump the gap of the sparkplug.

so now we know that the blaster 2 is better in somethings that the stock unit, wich is it can peek more voltage with out having the coil windings heat up and melt or crack etc. and it is oil cooled to help the windings cool down. (ive never looked at the internals of the sotck coil unit, so i dont know whats in there, on how many windings, or if its oil cooled). but the plug will still only use 12-16k volts. it wont pull more.

also not just how many windings that hte coil has, it also depends on the wire thickness of the coil winding too, the thinner they arem the faster they heat up, and the thicker ones the longer it will take to heat up. the bigger ones might produce a larger magnetic field, wich casues the coil to produce more voltage. there are some other things too, but ive never took the blaster 2 coil, and the stock coil unit apart to see whats inside them.
 
G

·
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Mazda_MX6_Turbo said:
and who said that spark plugs get all 45k volts every time they spark, your plugs get anywere from 12-16k voltes at each time they spark.

peek power means that this is the amount that this coil can produce before things start to melt from heat. a coil can produdce 100k volts, but when it dose, it will be fryed.

and the coil will produce enough voltage to jump the gap from the core of the sparkplug to the electrode on the plug. so it will only send that much voltage, if the gap could be jumped in 12-16k volts, y send 27k volts, there wont be a need for them, and would be a wast.

and if u wanna ask me were did i get my12-16k volts #'s, well i had my car hooked up to scope, and i was able to read this stuff. and i was able to see what kind of voltage my plugs were getting.

and from that i found out that my wires are little bad, cause i had cyl 1-2 getting 12-14K voltes, while cyl 3-4 were getting 6-8k volts, and this is a little low. what could it be? mayeb the plug gap, or corrosion on the plug, or maybe the power is finding a short to ground that is easyer to jump than to jump the gap of the sparkplug.

so now we know that the blaster 2 is better in somethings that the stock unit, wich is it can peek more voltage with out having the coil windings heat up and melt or crack etc. and it is oil cooled to help the windings cool down. (ive never looked at the internals of the sotck coil unit, so i dont know whats in there, on how many windings, or if its oil cooled). but the plug will still only use 12-16k volts. it wont pull more.

also not just how many windings that hte coil has, it also depends on the wire thickness of the coil winding too, the thinner they arem the faster they heat up, and the thicker ones the longer it will take to heat up. the bigger ones might produce a larger magnetic field, wich casues the coil to produce more voltage. there are some other things too, but ive never took the blaster 2 coil, and the stock coil unit apart to see whats inside them.
You run a higher voltage to a plug, and you can have the gap farther apart without losing spark. With my stock coil, with my plugs gapped at .38 I'd experience high boost hesitation, with the Blaster 2, same gap, no hesitation.

I could be like rebel, and cram my gap down to .30 on the stock coil, but changing to a higher RMS output coil worked just as well.

The Stock coil is not cooled in anyway.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top