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Its not butter?!!!!1
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Hey guys, I've heard of this touched on, on another forum. I thought I'd ask here. What are the thoughts on a regulated air supply to add boost to the intake? as in a well regulated 8psi (or so) boost from an air tank, much like NOS, but.... not exactly.

I think its a fantastic idea if properly executed, but perhaps my thinking is skewed, so any input or advise on things I'm missing would be much appreciated.
 

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It would work pretty well if you had enough air... you would either need a huge tank, or a tank under incredible pressure that could flow 200+ cfm of air at more than 8psi (remember, the engine is pumping away). Either way, it'd only be good for so many runs, and then you'd have to re-fill it. Why bother when you could install a turbo or supercharger that does the same thing, but with an endless supply.

Think of it this way: If you could install a nitrous maker that could feed the engine an endless supply of nitrous, then the tank of brand name "NOS" in the trunk would be obsolete just the same.
 

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Josh Bannings = 1
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From left to Right you have
1.) Steel 72 Cubic Foot tank. 2400 PSI, weighs something like 35#s.
2.) Aluminum 80 Cubic Foot Tank. 3000 PSI, Weighs near 40#s.
3.) High Pressure Steel 100 Cubic Foot Tank. 3500 PSI, Weighs nearly 45#s.
4.) High Pressure Steel 120 Cubic Foot Tank, 3500 PSI, Weighs nearly 50#s.

As you can see, they weigh a lot, and will only give you a minute or 2 of usage. It's doable, but it's not really a viable solution.
 

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i think your nutzo
 

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Its not butter?!!!!1
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It would work pretty well if you had enough air... you would either need a huge tank, or a tank under incredible pressure that could flow 200+ cfm of air at more than 8psi (remember, the engine is pumping away). Either way, it'd only be good for so many runs, and then you'd have to re-fill it.

Your right, and I figured this much, but I wanted to hear peoples opinions.
 

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Take and put an air-ride tank w/ compressor in the trunk, hook up with auto shut-off so it always holds air pressure at the ready, run air line from tank to intake charge pipe. Have a pressure sensative switch on throttle that will allow air pressure to enter intake with some type of valve, and there you have it. Now the hard part is a fuel system and vaf monitoring the various amounts.:rolleyes: Let us now when you get the system down-pat.:cool:
 

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my dad jokes about this all the time saying nothing like injecting 100psi of air. i thought he was stupid.. but i can see some logic in it.

i think your nutzo
i think your nutzo mister! :D
 

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your first hurdle is getting the intake tract to stay pressurized.. nitrous can be fogged into through the TB into the intake, if you just release pressurized air into the intake tube your losing the pressure out the air filter and whatever space the intake itself takes, just not worth it unless you had a compressor that could consistently pump a nice volume of air as the intake source so your actually pressurizing a part of the system without losing the pressure, but thats what a turbo/supercharger is. without some sort of check valve in the intake, your idea isnt going to work unless someone has a method of injection that hasnt been discussed, basically the TKT electronic supercharger is what your basically talking about, or just run a clutched m62
 

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I've tried this and it didn't work for me.

I took a 3inch diamater pipe, welded a top on it, and tapped threads in the top for my air compressor hose. i then tack welded metal strips to the end of the pipe, left about an inch gap and welded another small piece of 3inch pipe.

In the gap i attached a piece of rubber. The rubber would be forced closed via the pressure created by the compressed air, and when the compressed air was gone the flap would open due to the vaccum created by the engine.

I attached the hose and filled the tank up to about 100psi if i remember correctly. I started the car and let it idle sucking air through the opening then I opened the valve to let in the compressed air and have it shut the rubber valve. The car still idled but seemed to be bogged down.

From what I gathered it could work with a much larger tank, higher psi, and or larger air hoses. But all of this would weigh so much it would make it useless for the probably small gain you would see. Its just hard to make it work with something that is designed to power small air tools, not a v6 engine.

I wish I had pictures of my set up but this was just a project on a boring saturday afternoon, so I threw it out that evening. Hope this either gives someone some ideas or clears things up!
 

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wow... this is up there with copex logic.

air compressor hose = 1/2". 3/4" for the really high volume stuff.

unless you have a compressor (that isn't a turbo lol) that can fill up a queen sized air mattress to 18-20 psi, in just 5-7 seconds (roughly what 300cfm would do) then it taint gonna work.

alternatively, as someone said, you can perhaps use a tank... but a tank large enough to support even 5 seconds of just 200cfm through a 2" pipe would be (drumroll) about the size of a car.

;)

compressed air can't compensate for a turbine. Its the same reason all those wacky flight ideas involving compressed air failed miserably.

now if you meant compressed oxygen - that's ADDING something that wasn't there before in the same quantity. problem is - oxygen delivery in such a fashion is dangerous and explosive.

nitrous solves that problem by providing the oxygen via chemical reaction.. a chemical that's perfectly stable until the point of combustion.
 
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Its not butter?!!!!1
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
^ Alright that sums it up. I knew the tank would have to be huge (or at least highly charged) for this to even plausably work. But this answers any questions regarding its practicality.
 

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just for reference - i just looked at my 7.5 gallon compressor - sticker right on the side says it delivers 5.5 CMF at 90 psi through a 1/2" hose.

cracked open, it takes about 8 seconds to completely deplete the air from full.
 

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man. for some reason i guess i just read this first post as the OP being a smartass saying like compressing the air and forcing it in. like he was saying he came up with the idea for turbos.

i must have been drunk :/
 

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well i had always thought this would work except for tank size until..... i was watching a program about a french scientist that had created a new type of air tank that can handle RETARDED amounts of pressure (like 4000-5000 psi+) and weights pretty much nothing. they are also safe as hell they dont explode they just crack and release the pressure inside. they are designed for his car which runs off of compressed air. just get one of those im sure there cheap (lol) and you are set:tup:

about 60 gallons at 4000psi but i cant find the weight

more reading if you are interested in the air car :)

Air Car - First Air-Powered Car - Zero Emissions - Behind the Tech - Popular Mechanics

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | France to unveil air-powered car
 

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tanks to hold high pressure aren't the problem.

Find me a reasonably sized or reasonably priced pump that can pressurize air to 4-5000lbs ;)
 

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Josh Bannings = 1
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Go to a dive shop and pay $4. Most of them pump to 4500 psi, while some of the smaller ones only go up to 3500.
 

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tanks to hold high pressure aren't the problem.

Find me a reasonably sized or reasonably priced pump that can pressurize air to 4-5000lbs ;)
oh i thought the weight of the conventional high pressure tanks was the problem. my bad :)

well i was bored so here

reliable0air.com - Home

High Pressure Air Compressors - North Shore Compressor - Home

not something that could go in the car but... hell if you are really dedicated (and wipe your butt with hundred dollar bills:)) here you go
 

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with a conventional tank - yes it would be the weight AND size of it.

With a >4000 psi high pressure tank, it's the cost, weight (but to a lesser extent since they are also smaller) and safety concerns of it, when installed in a high vibration installation such as a car. (ever have a fitting blow off at 135 psi? imagine 5000 lol.

The smallest pump that north shore makes that can adequately pressurize to 5000 psi is 350lbs - 5hp - [email protected] the key is reasonably sized, in order for this to work... remember? 42x21x24" isn't exactly small.. and thats not counting the tank(s)

There's a smaller, "personal sized" one... but at 3.5cfm no-load... this thing would take hours to fill a tank large enough to provide enough boost to last a 13 second 1/4 mile ;)

It's also 3,000.00

I suppose, for argument's sake, you could just run a tank, with the car being a drag only car... then you can use whatever pump you want.

The problem you run into however, in all cases, is limiting pressure at the output end. You'll need some hefty remote actuators to restrict 5000 psi down to 8psi, while still managing enough flow through a minimum 2" pipe. We won't even try and figure out the heat involved in a 5000psi system... though having exchange tanks helps.

interestingly enough, you can probably get away with 2-3 scuba tanks. compressed, they hold anywhere from 60-100 cu.ft of air... having a reverse cascade system (remember you are not delivering through 1/2" hose.. you're trying to pressurize 2" pipe)
would give you *enough* air... the bigger issue is effectively delivering it, regulating it, and etc.

If turbos were say... 15,000.00 each... then i'd say go for it... experiment.

but they arent... heh
 

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Josh Bannings = 1
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with a conventional tank - yes it would be the weight AND size of it.

With a >4000 psi high pressure tank, it's the cost, weight (but to a lesser extent since they are also smaller) and safety concerns of it, when installed in a high vibration installation such as a car. (ever have a fitting blow off at 135 psi? imagine 5000 lol.
I worked at a dive shop, and it happens all the time. Seal on tank valve goes, or a burst disk. The tank usually falls on it's side, sliding around the floor until someone either jumps on top or it and wrestles it to a stop, or it runs out of air. Not to mention how much the hurt when they hit you in the legs.

The smallest pump that north shore makes that can adequately pressurize to 5000 psi is 350lbs - 5hp - [email protected] the key is reasonably sized, in order for this to work... remember? 42x21x24" isn't exactly small.. and that's not counting the tank(s)

There's a smaller, "personal sized" one... but at 3.5cfm no-load... this thing would take hours to fill a tank large enough to provide enough boost to last a 13 second 1/4 mile ;)

It's also 3,000.00
Pumps are a hopeless idea, they are huge, take forever, and the good ones require 3-phase 220v which you can't get installed in your car.

I suppose, for argument's sake, you could just run a tank, with the car being a drag only car... then you can use whatever pump you want.

The problem you run into however, in all cases, is limiting pressure at the output end. You'll need some hefty remote actuators to restrict 5000 psi down to 8psi, while still managing enough flow through a minimum 2" pipe. We won't even try and figure out the heat involved in a 5000psi system... though having exchange tanks helps.
It really isn't that big a problem, I already do this to some extent. I use Scuba tanks to supplement my air compressor in times of heavy use. I attach my regulated Scuba Tank to my 20 Gallon air compressor and use it as a surge tank, it allows large quantities of air at the desired pressure to be available. BTW, you have the heat problem backwards, tanks get hot during filling, they will actually ice over if you bleed them down, and I mean like 1/2 inch of solid ice. So that would technically be beneficial.

interestingly enough, you can probably get away with 2-3 scuba tanks. compressed, they hold anywhere from 60-100 cu.ft of air... having a reverse cascade system (remember you are not delivering through 1/2" hose.. you're trying to pressurize 2" pipe)
would give you *enough* air... the bigger issue is effectively delivering it, regulating it, and etc.

If turbos were say... 15,000.00 each... then I'd say go for it... experiment.

but they aren't... heh
I agree, the price is just 2 high for the pain in the ass it is to use. It's not like Nitrous where it's a supplement, and can be used repeatedly, you are looking a 1 shot and you are done situation.
 

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icing over: i might have my thermodynamics wrong here, but isn't the ice over a function of the heat (compressed air) rapidly leaving the tank? the actual air coming out is still hot, but it creates a tempurature vortex across the surface of the (metal?) tank

do carbon tanks also ice over? just wondering
 
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