[psmithmx]

Does anyone know what the part number of the transistor inside the distributor is? The one that fails on the 93-94 models?

The original is a Mitsubishi, but a replacement part number will also do.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Don't really want to take the distributor apart twice! (one time to get the number and the second to replace it)

Thank for the help.

 

[skiingman]

Does anyone know what the part number of the transistor inside the distributor is? The one that fails on the 93-94 models?

The original is a Mitsubishi, but a replacement part number will also do.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Don't really want to take the distributor apart twice! (one time to get the number and the second to replace it)

Thank for the help.

THe ignitor module is becoming very difficult to find separately.

I last replaced my disty with a mazda reman for approx 250 bucks. Thats quickly becoming the only route.

-Garrett

 

[rylinkus]

Re: Re: Distributor Transisitor Part Number

THe ignitor module is becoming very difficult to find separately.

I last replaced my disty with a mazda reman for approx 250 bucks. Thats quickly becoming the only route.

-Garrett

I strongly disagree...
It's just a power transistor guys. Why do we always make it out like it's GOT to be a mitsubishi part. I'm sure there are plenty or transistors out there that would fit the bill. I keep asking for someone to send me a toasted 93/94 disty and I'll find a vheap solution and let you guys know. Thus far no ones offered.

 

[DragonZealot]

The Mitsu # is M67580 if this is what you are looking for. But I don't think it is available.

Also it is not a regular transistor, it is an IGBT (isolated gate bipolar transistor) specifically designed for switch ignition signals.

DZ

 

[rylinkus]

The Mitsu # is M67580 if this is what you are looking for. But I don't think it is available.

Also it is not a regular transistor, it is an IGBT (isolated gate bipolar transistor) specifically designed for switch ignition signals.

DZ

I'm sorry, but you aren't going to get me to believe that there is not other transistor that has similar properties and could be used in this situation. Frankly if it was designed and choosen well in the first place it would not fail.

 

[skiingman]

I'm sorry, but you aren't going to get me to believe that there is not other transistor that has similar properties and could be used in this situation. Frankly if it was designed and choosen well in the first place it would not fail.

I agree with you completely. But as to how expensive it would be in time and money to retrofit a disty, I doubt it would be worth it for most people.

Like I said, the Mazda part is ~250 bucks.... Many people drive their mx6 daily, they dont have the skill/time/motivation to engineer a better solution. This is why I don't rebuild parts, I buy rebuilt parts with warranties....

I said nothing about engineering a new transitor solution. I merely said that the ignitor module does not appear to be available separately anymore. If you have info otherwise, the MX6 community would be glad to hear it.

-Garrett

 

[rylinkus]

I agree with you completely. But as to how expensive it would be in time and money to retrofit a disty, I doubt it would be worth it for most people.

Like I said, the Mazda part is ~250 bucks.... Many people drive their mx6 daily, they dont have the skill/time/motivation to engineer a better solution. This is why I don't rebuild parts, I buy rebuilt parts with warranties....

I said nothing about engineering a new transitor solution. I merely said that the ignitor module does not appear to be available separately anymore. If you have info otherwise, the MX6 community would be glad to hear it.

-Garrett

I've mentioned this before. And in the past I've taken flak for it. (Not sure if it was this board or not.) Either way it's one of those things that stuck in my mind. My friend managed to get a MUCH more robust power transistor for one of his project for 50 bucks. And I'm talking worlds away from the specs needed under the hood. I was thinknig that a 25 buck part could probably save some people a bit of cash. Plus it'd be something a bit different then others have done. I'm not saying this is an end all solution to this problem. Just stating that it certainly is an option. I mean, it is just a transistor. And regardless of what some people may say, A transistor is a transistor is a transistor. It's just a matter of specing out the right one, kind of like sizing a turbo.

 

[DragonZealot]

I'm sorry, but you aren't going to get me to believe that there is not other transistor that has similar properties and could be used in this situation. Frankly if it was designed and choosen well in the first place it would not fail.

I never said you can not get substitute. I just said you can not get the original Mitsu part. As far as getting substitute I have not seen the spec for that part so getting a substitute is a try-and-see game, if you can find an IGBT designed for automotive ignition application. Note this is a special application, not a consumer application so your local Radio Shack is not going to carry a substitute.

One manufacturer I know that makes IGBT is International Rectifier. Let us know if you found one that works.

The ignitor that uses the Mitsu part is the improved one found in 95+. The original 93/94 ignitor is a sealed unit which uses a thick film integrated circuit. This is the one which fails pre-maturely. The thick film uses regular bipolar transistor which contributes to the high failure rate.

DZ

 

[rylinkus]

I never said you can not get substitute. I just said you can not get the original Mitsu part. As far as getting substitute I have not seen the spec for that part so getting a substitute is a try-and-see game, if you can find an IGBT designed for automotive ignition application. Note this is a special application, not a consumer application so your local Radio Shack is not going to carry a substitute.

One manufacturer I know that makes IGBT is International Rectifier. Let us know if you found one that works.

The ignitor that uses the Mitsu part is the improved one found in 95+. The original 93/94 ignitor is a sealed unit which uses a thick film integrated circuit. This is the one which fails pre-maturely. The thick film uses regular bipolar transistor which contributes to the high failure rate.

DZ

If you think I was gonna walk to the local radio shack and get a part for my car you are sadly mistaken. I was think more along the lines of looking up various spec sheet online. Most companies leave all that info right there in PDF form for you to get. I didn't expect an something I could drive and get. (Though Umaine's engineering store may have something. You never know with them.) Either way it was just an idea.

 

[DragonZealot]

And regardless of what some people may say, A transistor is a transistor is a transistor. It's just a matter of specing out the right one, kind of like sizing a turbo.

Yeah, it is easier to say than to get it done though. We can't even find the spec for the original one, leave alone matching it with a potential substitute. Good luck specing out the right one.

My question is where do you start. Are you going to get an N-channel or P-channel? How about voltage and amps? Switching characteristics. Or you want to start with the popular 2N3055 since a transistor is a transistor is a transistor.

DZ

 

[psmithmx]

Thanks guys for the help. My current disty is a reconned one that lasted about 3 years, so it should have some sort of replacement transistor in there. Will try and find an equivalent for the original, or the current replacement. Will take the disty apart tonight to see what transistor is in there.

In replacement I will look at some higher temperature rating, and/or current and voltage to try and extend the life.

Normal IBGT's won't cost more than $10 bucks or so, I figure, and that is better than $150!

When I get a replacement that works, I'll post the part number here.

Thanks again.

 

[rylinkus]

Yeah, it is easier to say than to get it done though. We can't even find the spec for the original one, leave alone matching it with a potential substitute. Good luck specing out the right one.

My question is where do you start. Are you going to get an N-channel or P-channel? How about voltage and amps? Switching characteristics. Or you want to start with the popular 2N3055 since a transistor is a transistor is a transistor.

DZ

You know, I'll excuse you for acting like I'm retarded since you don't know any better. I'm an electrical engineer. I do have a clue here. Sorry to disappoint. :shrug: I suppose it's people that are overly negative that kill alot of projects.

As for the specs, well it would take some figuring. I mean, we know how fast the engine can spin. Max RPMs can yield the max firing rate we need. Which is pretty danm fast. So the thing is going to need some impressive switching speeds. Amps and volts could both be measured very easily. And I'm sure it woulnd't take much to determine if the transistor on my car is a PNP or NPN. But that's just me. Wanna throw Mosfets into the mix? I'm sure we can use them somewhere. Heck, I'll be we could stick some LEDs somewhere too. They're pretty cool. If you actually know what you are talking about you would realize that regardless of specs all transistors are based off from the same few principles. And they are all very similar. Hell, it's all just doped silicon.

 

[psmithmx]

Hi Guys. Took apart my current disty last night. Couldn't get a part number off that. Was potted in the first place and secondly it worked hard and the potting was burnt, so I couldn't get the P/N. All I know is that the replacement I have in now, is a TO-220 package. The M67580 package is a TO-247 package. Doesn't really matter, as long as the package can handle the spec.

I've looked at the IR possible replacement, the IRGB14C40L. This one is specifically designed for ignition systems.

A transistor is not a transistor. The specific requirement for the disty switching application is the following:
- High operating temperature (>100 C)
- Low Vce(on) in the order of 1.5V
- High current & voltage capability ~14A (@100 C) and 400 to 600V
- Maximum Frequency ~ 400 Hz (8000 rpm / 2 (for 4 stroke) * 6 (cylinders) / 60 (minutes to seconds for Hz)

The max freq is low, but the rise and fall times must be short for proper switching. If you're rise and fall times is too long, the voltage generated by the coil, would be lower, thus bad spark, bad ignition, bad performance etc. Thus a 1 kHz IBGT would suffice with as rise/fall time of micro seconds.

A MOSFET will go crazy with such a noisy signal and environment on it's gate.

So the only thing I still need to check is the N or P channel. First I have to get all the potting out to get to the pins. Still looking for the datasheet for the Mitsibishi one, to save me some work.

 

[kentaur]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dorothy.bradbury/probemx/p_p4.htm

 

[DragonZealot]

Good finding. Actually there is a member on this forum here who tried this replacement part but he never get back if it worked out ok for him or not.

My be you could request a application note for this which should show you if it still need the ballast resistor on the source pin or the limiting resistor at the gate pin.


DZ

 

[psmithmx]

Ok guys. Some more feedback. After a long and hard search for some data on the M67580 IGBT, I finally have received some information (not good though). To quote Mike Benson from Glyn Ltd:
"Sorry this is a part customized to Mazda, and therefore it is my
understanding only Mazda has the rights to purchase this part...a way of
them making a tidy profit on repairs!

I have had numerous requests over the years for similar parts, for
Mitsubishi cars and others, and every time they have said all parts must
be purchased through the car manufacturer!"

So, it looks like I will have to go the tough route. Will try and get an automotive ignition IGBT and try and integrate it into the ignitor module. Will keep you updated.

 

[kentaur]

If things get too ugly get MSD 6A ~140$ and replace the whole ignitor, result should be better overall.
You find more details in www.probetalk.com

Rene

 

[psmithmx]

Hi Guys, Replaced my plug wires this week. The car seems much much better. My old wire did have about 50k miles on, so it was in need of replacement.

The replacement transistor is going good. Will have some samples from IR, ST and Fairchild by Wednesday. Will do a few test on them and see what I get. For now I won't be digging out the other transistor until it gives me trouble again. A case of "don't fix it if it ain't broke".

The guy who did the recon for me the first time, said that he hasn't had the transistor (he replaced) fail on him. That's why I went for the plug-wire first approach.

Will let you know when I've tested some of the IGBT's.

 

[Mr. MX6]

the new ignitor (Ford P/N: F32Z-12A112-BA)

the new coil (Ford P/N: F32Z-12029-AA)

 

[skiingman]

the new ignitor (Ford P/N: F32Z-12A112-BA)

the new coil (Ford P/N: F32Z-12029-AA)

As far as I have been able to deduce, those parts are no longer available in North America. Perhaps its different for you Aussies.
-Garrett