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Re: but this one goes up to 11

SleepCounter said:
:idea: Great idea -- that way when you overload the circuit, the wiring will catch on fire (and if you're lucky, maybe the whole car!) and you won't need to change a fuse.:idea:
Hey [drsjr1980], don't [call people names.] 10 extra amps running throught the existing wiring is not gonna cause a fire. You probably couldn't not wire up a toggle switch without calling someone for help, you [kick ass person.] Most wiring is rated for a decent amount of amps. Dude, i've worked under a master electrician for 4 years and asked him this Q, [Panther37] said you [will be banned if this happens again.]
 

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laxative overdose

drsjr1980 said:
Hey sleepcounter, don't be a stupid a$$,
Name-calling is the last resort of the intellectually bankrupt.

drsjr1980 said:
10 extra amps running throught the existing wiring is not gonna cause a fire.
Didja ever wonder just why they put them fuses in there?:rolleyes:

drsjr1980 said:
You probably could'nt not wire up a toggle switch without calling someone for help, you idiot.
Name-calling is the last resort of the intellectually bankrupt.

drsjr1980 said:
Most wiring is rated for a decent amount of amps.
Most? I see.:rolleyes: Decent? Good enough for me.:rolleyes:

drsjr1980 said:
Dude, i've worked under a master electrician for 4 years and asked him this Q, he said you should have someone throw your stupid head into the wall, trying to knock some sense into it.
Master what? Does he believe in fuses? Code?

magik8 said:
I have the feeling the existing wiring can probably take the minimal additional current draw from a few additional bulbs in the back.
According to dr Tesla, it'll carry "10 extra amps" without problem.

Yeah, right!

magik8 said:
However, I would leave the current rated fuse in there to be safe.
Me, too. But dr Tesla prescribes otherwise. Easy enough, I guess, when yer talking about someone else's car.:D

magik8 said:
If it blows with the additonal lights, that would be a sign that you would need to upgrade the wiring.
That would be the logical conclusion, unless of course you're dr Tesla -- in that case you just put in a bigger fuse!

But then again, I'm no master electrician. Come to think of it, neither is dr Tesla! But he knows one:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's cool, you're right and I am wrong.
"Name-calling is the last resort of the intellectually bankrupt."
intellectually bankrupt is correct, however I won't use the same quote twice. I will make sure to be original, and not use the same phrase multiple times in multiple posts.
I will do it my way, and others will do it other ways. I am going by a master electrician who has been certified in my state for 12 years, and was once an ASE certified mechanic. But that does'nt mean a lot to some people. It's all the same to me. By most wiring it is meant that automotive wiring is almost always made to handle "more than it needs to" I don't have specifics, it did'nt seem that important. It's a few light bulbs. "Does he believe in fuses?" No, he thinks they are the devil, they haunt him in his sleep, yeah. Dr. Tesla, come on, you got time to think of something better than that, don't ya? Come on Dr. Tesla. give me a break.
 

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Wow. A lot of reaction for so minor a disagreement. Why don't ya'll come over to the Audio & electronics forum with this one? We deal with stuff like this all the time!

What's the fuse rating for the tail light circuit in the factory fusebox? I don't have one here to check, or I would. If it's less than 15 amps, go ahead and bump it up to a 15, the stock wires are OK at that for that length. While some of the factory wires carry up to 30 amperes, that's on temporary-on circuitsa that only carry that current for a few seconds max, like opening your sunroof. With the piddly stock wiring, I'd recomend no more than 15 amps for something that's a possible continuous-on like the tail lights.

The relay idea is a good one. Upgrading the wiring in and from the fusebox to the tail lights is another option. If it was me in my car, I'd run the new lights on their own circuit with their own power, and use a ralay to trigger them on and bright in accordance with the other tails. No biggie.

Cars certainly can burn up because of inadequate wire size carrying too much current, I've seen it happen, and I've prevented it from happening in cars that had original installs done elsewhere. This master electrician guy - what kind of electrician? ASE certified in a previouse life or not, I doubt he has quite the experience with 12-volt DC that most experianced car audio guys do. I've had many electricians critisize our work and techniques, usually with very humorus (for us) and often dangerous (for them) results.
 

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mxmissile said:
If it was me in my car, I'd run the new lights on their own circuit with their own power, and use a ralay to trigger them on and bright in accordance with the other tails. No biggie.
That's kinda what I thought. But I'm no master electrician. Come to think of it, neither are you. So what would we know?

mxmissile said:
This master electrician guy - what kind of electrician? ASE certified in a previouse life or not, I doubt he has quite the experience with 12-volt DC that most experianced car audio guys do. I've had many electricians critisize our work and techniques, usually with very humorus (for us) and often dangerous (for them) results.
I wonder why he lost his certification?
 

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Please do not pick apart my posts to fuel an argument that does not involve me. I posted to keep things on topic and to help with the initial question, and will have no part in the flame war.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you mxmissile, I appreciate your input. Sleepcounter has a lot of time on his hands. He loves to pick everything anyone says apart. But that's just his character. I feel you make a good point about the bumping up the fuse to 15 amps, if it's not already. Because the wiring should be able to handle the load. That's what my friend(more or less) had said. That's the point, I was stating, that it should handle the extra few amps for the short duration of time in question. I did mine my way without a problem. It's been like that for a week now with no problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
SleepCounter said:
I wonder why he lost his certification?
He did'nt lose his cert. he moved on to greener pastures. He does what he likes, and he lost interest in automotive repair. Not that it matters, just thought I would share.
 

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mxmissile said:
I posted to keep things on topic and to help with the initial question, and will have no part in the flame war.
First time I've ever been chasitised by a poster for agreeing with with his post.:D

drsjr1980 said:
Thank you mxmissile, I appreciate your input.
Even after he disagreed with yer master electrician? Even after he disagreed with you? Oh, maybe you just appreciate the part where he chastised me.:D


drsjr1980 said:
Sleepcounter has a lot of time on his hands.

You're making that up (just like a lot of other things). You have no idea whatsoever how much time, if any, I have on my hands.

drsjr1980 said:
He loves to pick everything anyone says apart.
Untrue. I haven't picked apart anything that HotRodMex has posted. But then again HotRodMex's posts are characterized by rationale and logic. Yours, ummm, are somewhat less rational and logical.

drsjr1980 said:
I feel you make a good point about the bumping up the fuse to 15 amps, if it's not already.
It is already fused for 15 amps.

Your point was that the circuit could safely handle "an extra 10 amps". Wrong. Unadulterated horsefluff. Bad advice. Potentially lethal advice. I hope it doesn't take someone's death to awaken you to the seriousness of such prescriptions.

drsjr1980 said:
Because the wiring should be able to handle the load.
The wiring will indeed be able to handle that (15 amp) load. That's why it's fused for 15 amps.

drsjr1980 said:
That's what my friend(more or less) had said.
Is he the one who said, "10 extra amps running throught the existing wiring is not gonna cause a fire." ? Or was that you paraphrasing him? Because I cannot imagine that Mazda overdesigned their harness by a factor of 40% (unless, of course, they anticipated idiots substituting 25 amp fuses for the 15 amp ones specified).

drsjr1980 said:
That's the point, I was stating, that it should handle the extra few amps for the short duration of time in question.
Short duration? I thought the "time in question" was whenever the lights were on. I'm not certain that was what mxmissle meant when he said, "temporary-on circuitsa that only carry that current for a few seconds max, like opening your sunroof" .

In fact, mxmissle said the opposite of you, that "With the piddly stock wiring, I'd recomend no more than 15 amps for something that's a possible continuous-on like the tail lights. "

The stock fuse is 15 amps, so your prescription to run the circuit at 25 amps is a prescription for disaster.

drsjr1980 said:
I did mine my way without a problem. It's been like that for a week now with no problems.
A week, eh? Well that changes everything. You really are an electronics wizard. I hope you didn't put a 25 amp fuse in the circuit.
 

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[~] You quote others to try and prove your case, you damn near quote the whole thread, is that really necessary? Just stop quoting others and let it go. I already admitted that you were right and I was wrong. I also stated that I wasn't using specific figures, which I'm sure is clear. I stated that If it wasn't rated for 15A then 15A would be ok. I'm sure you will quote me and post what the amperage on 2 or 4 (194 series) light bulbs would be and get the rating of the factory wiring and do the math to see what the total amperage of all lighting in questioned would be and tell me where my flaws are. I have more important things to do. I understand If I was wiring up a massive car stereo of running something important with specific amperage requirements. But, it's not that serious, and the lighting in question is to be used for a short duration. Why do you keep quoting others when what you have to say has been said, yet you repeat yourself numerous times. You don't know everything, nobody does; I defenitely don't claim to. You [seem to] have a problem with repition, [Please don't make guesses on someone's physical impediments.]
 

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ENOUGH! SleepCounter you do tend (meaning it is not uncommon for you) to comment on every sentance (or every few sentances) of some people's (meaning not everyone's) posts. As proof you have already done this (meaning what I just stated above) twice in this post (http://www.mx6.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79623)

Now that I'm done with that, this is what I understood from drsjr1980 and mxmissile:
If the fuse was less than 15 amps (10 amps, 5 amps, etc.) then putting a 15 amp fuse there would be okay and not cause any problems. Since the fuse is 15 amps, then every one can agree that the 15 amp fuse should not be upgraded.

Now a question:
Do all those lightbulbs really draw 15 amps of current?

Also:
SleepCounter were you calling drsjr1980 Dr. Tesla? Or were you just refering to him.
SleepCounter said:
You're making that up (just like a lot of other things). You have no idea whatsoever how much time, if any, I have on my hands.
We are only talking about one issue. Please don't accuse drsjr1980 of making other things up when we are not talking about them (the things you accuse drsjr1980 of making up)

I think in general on this board we are trying to help eachother out. I don't think anyone would make stuff up just to screw some one else over. Maybe wrong information, but that's about it.

The moral of this post is: please play nice. :)
 

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Panther37 said:
ENOUGH! SleepCounter you do tend (meaning it is not uncommon for you) to comment on every sentance (or every few sentances) of some people's (meaning not everyone's) posts.
Guilty. I read the rules and maybe missed the part about not being allowed to comment. I'll go back and re-read. I thought by quoting the sentence I was rebutting, clarity was preserved.

I had thought drsjr1980 had said "everyone".

Panther37 said:
Since the fuse is 15 amps, then every one can agree that the 15 amp fuse should not be upgraded.
If by "upgraded" you mean "replaced with a fuse of higher rating", I think it's safe to say that I agree, you agree and mxmissle agrees. So far, drsjr1980 has prescribed otherwise i.e has prescribed substituting a fuse of higher rating.

Panther37 said:
Now a question:
Do all those lightbulbs really draw 15 amps of current?
Depends on how many bulbs and how much each draws. I don't know what you were proposing (4 or 5 12 v bulbs is insufficient data -- need to know which bulb type, how many watts). As stated several times above, the relay solution is the safest and most elegant and allows you to have as many bulbs as your heart desires.

Panther37 said:
We are only talking about one issue.
The issue of how much time I have on my hands?

Panther37 said:
Please don't accuse drsjr1980 of making other things up when we are not talking about them (the things you accuse drsjr1980 of making up)
I'm lost, here. drsjr1980 brought up the issue of how much time I have on my hands ("a lot"). Are you suggesting I shouldn't debate the issue? Am I off topic for debating it?

Panther37 said:
I think in general on this board we are trying to help eachother out.
Agreed. But I don't believe that telling someone to substitute a higher capacity fuse is "helping out".

Panther37 said:
I don't think anyone would make stuff up just to screw some one else over. Maybe wrong information, but that's about it.
I guess I'm just not clever enough to figure out the difference between "making stuff up" and "wrong information". How do YOU discern?

Panther37 said:
The moral of this post is: please play nice. :)
I always play nice. And I never call anyone an idiot. Not even the idiots.
 

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You never responed to my Dr. Tesla question. I ask you now, why? I'll give you that I'm guilty of getting off track and trying to fix this argument and thank you for pointing it out. I now split the thread so we can argue and it will be on topic. I also wasn't quoting drsjr1980. Did I use a quote? Yes, when I said "upgraded" I ment a higher amperage on the fuse (20 amp, 25 amp, etc.) As for the bulbs, they would be the same bulbs as the lights in the tail lights, the 1156 or 1157, whichever is dual fillament. The issue that we are talking about is changing the fuse on the rear lighting circuit to a higher one. If you are refereing to any other times that drsjr1980 was "making something up" please talk about it in the apropriate thread. Making stuf up is just that, you don't know an answer so you just pull it out of your ass. Wrong information is information that you got from another source that you believe to be true but is false. Also, thank you for not calling who you believe are idiots what you think of them to their face. Please continue to keep it to yourself.
 

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J#S#S F#*KIN CHR#ST, there was a time when post whoring a sentence or two just to write something was bad. Sleepcounter turns the whole thing into a deposition. LET IT BE, YOU DON'T ALWAYS HAVE TO BE CORRECT, even if you KNOW YOU ARE RIGHT, who F#%KING CARES? Let him wire his tailights however he wants to wire them, and if he blows fuses or lights his car on fire OH WELL........HIS BAD:rolleyes:


That being said, have a nice day:D
 
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SixSick6 said:
J#S#S F#*KIN CHR#ST, there was a time when post whoring a sentence or two just to write something was bad. Sleepcounter turns the whole thing into a deposition. LET IT BE, YOU DON'T ALWAYS HAVE TO BE CORRECT, even if you KNOW YOU ARE RIGHT, who F#%KING CARES? Let him wire his tailights however he wants to wire them, and if he blows fuses or lights his car on fire OH WELL........HIS BAD:rolleyes:


That being said, have a nice day:D
I like Sleepcounters post's. They are easy to read, Informative, and usually always correct.

He lays out his argument in a logical, non insulting style. Very mature.

I think other people here should learn from their style.
 

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I like his posts too and agree whole heartedly, it doesnt mean it doesnt get annoying sometimes, but then again I tend to post whore random crap, and that probably gets annoying to people too:shrug:

I'm more of a street smart/common sense intelligence ( I know alot but there is alot I don't know) , where Sleepcounter is genuine intellingence ( and knows alot about alot and there isnt alot he doesnt know, or could easily figure out) and knows that he is smart.
 

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Panther37 said:
You never responed to my Dr. Tesla question. I ask you now, why?
Tesla would be this guy. I referred to drsjr1980 as Tesla to give him a little subtle hint about how much he has to learn (I somehow think that subtleties are lost on him, however). Also a backhanded smarmy insult, much like his smarmy "too much time on his hands" insult (after he was told to discontinue the insults).

Panther37 said:
I'll give you that I'm guilty of getting off track and trying to fix this argument and thank you for pointing it out.
Two weeks standing in the "bad mod" corner for you!

Panther37 said:
I now split the thread so we can argue and it will be on topic.
Ok, one week only.:D

Panther37 said:
Yes, when I said "upgraded" I ment a higher amperage on the fuse (20 amp, 25 amp, etc.)
That's what causes fires.

Panther37 said:
As for the bulbs, they would be the same bulbs as the lights in the tail lights, the 1156 or 1157, whichever is dual fillament.
1157 is dual filament. There are many different wattages for the same (1157) bulb, depending upon manufacturer and upon configuration. I believe (just going from memory, so don't hold me to it!) the bright filament is 27 watts and the simmer one is 9 (for ordinary tungsten filaments). If yer just worried about running lights, you could run 20 of 'em. However, the 15 amp fuse would blow soon as you touched the brake pedal or flicked the turn signal. If you want the stock fuse not to blow, yer limited to 5 bulbs (including the existing ones).

If you put in a 30 watt fuse, you could run 10 bulbs. It might not start a fire (unless you left your foot on the brake pedal for too long).

The math goes like this: 12 volts times 15 amps equals 180 watts. In reality there's more than 12 volts with a decent alternator, but in reality the circuit will carry a little more current as well, so that balances out.

If you wanna use a different bulb(s) just make certain the wattages don't exceed 180 watts total.

Panther37 said:
The issue that we are talking about is changing the fuse on the rear lighting circuit to a higher one.
A fuse is meant to be the weakest link in the circuit, so that if it gets overloaded, the fuse will blow rather than the wiring melt/short/burn. If you substitute ("upgrade") to a larger fuse, then the wiring becomes the weakest link and can now melt/short/burn if the circuit becomes overloaded.

Changing to a larger fuse is crass stupidity. Advising others to do so is criminal negligence. It is NOT an "upgrade".

Panther37 said:
If you are refereing to any other times that drsjr1980 was "making something up" please talk about it in the apropriate thread.
Now that you've split it, I guess this IS the appropriate thread. I was referring him to making up things about me -- "too much time on his hands", "probably couldn't not wire up a toggle switch without calling someone for help", stuff like that in addition to his dangerous and unequivocally incorrect statements like, "10 extra amps running throught the existing wiring is not gonna cause a fire" and (sorry, don't know where you put the rest of the thread) "just put in a bigger fuse" (or whatever he said along those lines).


Panther37 said:
Making stuf up is just that, you don't know an answer so you just pull it out of your ass. Wrong information is information that you got from another source that you believe to be true but is false.
Oh, I see. If I say water is flammable, then that is "making stuff up". If I say crusty told me water is flammable, it's just "wrong". Izzat about right?

What if I made up the part about crusty having told me? What if it was a "master electrician" who "told" me?

Nonsense. Horsefluff is horsefluff, irrespective of the source. If yer too stupid to critically examine it before repeating it, then yer just as stupid as the misinformed "source".

Panther37 said:
Also, thank you for not calling who you believe are idiots what you think of them to their face. Please continue to keep it to yourself.
The idiots do a far better job of calling attention to their idiocy than I ever could. I just point out (some of) their errors.

SixSick6 said:
even if you KNOW YOU ARE RIGHT, who F#%KING CARES?
The guy who decided (after having read all the facts and opinions) to stick with the 15 amp fuse? Fersure not the guy whose car self-immolated after "upgrading".

SixSick6 said:
Let him wire his tailights however he wants to wire them, and if he blows fuses or lights his car on fire OH WELL........HIS BAD
If that's all he did, it's his problem. If he was inside his car when it cooked, I'd feel badly, but at least the gene pool would be improved.

The problem I have is him prescribing his ghetto solutions to others who might cook their cars or themselves.
SixSick6 said:
as far as him installing lights into his middle tail light section, I doubt he would use anything besides 2-4 194's.
You give him credit for more intelligence than I do.

SixSick6 said:
I wired my rear side marker lights with electrical housings and some 194's, and guess what, I've never had a problem whatsoever.
Guess what, two 194s draw far, far less current than five (or ten, or twenty) 1157s. Didja "upgrade" the fuse?

By the way, you posted two in a row. Lucky for you the mod never looks in here. :D

FlySwat said:
easy to read, Informative, and usually always correct.
Nice summary, and accurate (except you could have omitted the "usually" part).:D Thanks.

SixSick6 said:
I like his posts too and agree whole heartedly, it doesnt mean it doesnt get annoying sometimes
'Specially when it's YOU I catch "making things up", right?

SixSick6 said:
and knows that he is smart.
Not by along shot. Maybe when I was drsjr1980's age. Back then, I knew everything (just like him). It was only as I got older that I came to realize that I didn't have all the answers and I could learn a thing or two by listening, rather than just beaking off and calling people names when they disagreed with me.

FlySwat said:
For someone who is 400 years old, he better be smart
C'mon now, not even 150 (in fact, just barely older than crusty).

I guess "just barely older than crusty" isn't that young, come to think of it, though. :D
 

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SleepCounter said:

Oh, I see. If I say water is flammable, then that is "making stuff up". If I say crusty told me water is flammable, it's just "wrong". Izzat about right?
Actually some guy with a fake beard and a pair of dark glasses told me, I was just trying to help by telling you.


So does this mean I can smoke in my bath or not?
 
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