Mazda MX-6 Forum banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
If you had the choice of totally rebuilding our engines with forged units, ported heads, new everything basically... would you buy a used KL or KLZE? I can get a used KL for $200... thinking everything will be replaced with forged units and race port the heads with performance injectors... basically the works... will there be any gains in the end if I had used a KLZE and did the same thing? I'm thinking not... the computer is the question and when adding the turbo or sc it will be reprogrammed anyway. Am I right or Wrong?... What do you think Mike94pgt?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
This should prob. be in performance... but i had some questions along the same lines... What parts of each would the ideal KL turbo buildup consist of? i.e. the intake manifold from the ZE is of superior design, correct? but the lower compression of the 03 would be better for FI, am i right? does anyone have any insight on this? (sorry i didn't help at all gene)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
NP just want to sup my 6 with either turbo or SC that will handle ~12psi boost... hence forged units and the such including total upgraded fuel delivery system... prob is I need to drive it to get to work... thought it would be much easier to get a used engine, build it and then when finished put it in... anyone ever convert a 5spd to a 6? God I wonder how much that would cost!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
kl

The intake manifold from the ZE flows a bit better, the cams are a bit more agressive and the pistons are a little higher compression. These 3 things basically make up the horsepower difference between the ZE and the 03. I would say that if you are planning on replacing the pistons anyway with forged ones, etc.. you might as well go with the 03, since it is so much cheaper. This is especially true since you are going forced induction. The ZE pistons would only be of help to you if you were going normally aspirated. The 03 cams or a custom setup may be better than the ZE cams for FI as well (but don't qote me on that), so the cams aren't a big deal. The only thing I think that would really help you with the ZE for your project is the intake manifold. My advice to you would be to get the 03. If you want the higher flow intake manifold, you can get a good port and polish of the 03 manifold or spend a little more money and buy a ZE manifold to throw on your 03. It doesn't seem that the ZE would be of much benefit here considering how much more it would cost you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,167 Posts
Gene/=/Splicer said:
If you had the choice of totally rebuilding our engines with forged units, ported heads, new everything basically... would you buy a used KL or KLZE? I can get a used KL for $200... thinking everything will be replaced with forged units and race port the heads with performance injectors... basically the works... will there be any gains in the end if I had used a KLZE and did the same thing? I'm thinking not... the computer is the question and when adding the turbo or sc it will be reprogrammed anyway. Am I right or Wrong?... What do you think Mike94pgt?
IMHO, the KLZE is a better starting point if for no other reason than the cams & the intake manifold. If you plan to replace the pistons and rods, the 'ZEs 10:1 compression advantage over the '03 is nullified since you can pretty much set the compression to whatever you like. AFAIK, the head castings for the ZE and 03 are the same except for the intake and possibly exhaust port shapes. I think it's possible to get the 03 heads to look like ZE heads by good porting. I think there's enough meat there to do this.

So really, the main impetus for starting with a ZE is the intake and the cams. It might be possible to pick up a manifold and cams somewhere (maybe Corksport) and save yourself the cost of a whole KLZE bottom-end. Since the block and crank is the same, and you plan to replace the rods & pistons (have any source for these in mind?), it wouldn't really make sense to get the whole motor only to heave most of it in favor of forged parts.

Without cutting the KL03 manifold apart to get at the insides, I'd probably try to stay away from it as the cap on a performance motor. I'm in the (slow) process of porting out a KL03 manifold and am disappointed at how little of the interior I can actually reach with the tools at my disposal. Building a kick-arse bottom end only to feed it with a KL03 manifold (unless heavily worked) would be self-defeating.

You'll have to choose the compression ratio carefully to work with future plans you may have for the engine. An 11:1 forged set up, while noisy, would be good for N/A but unsuitable for forced induction.
 

·
Boostaholic
Joined
·
2,029 Posts
I believe I saw something about some exotic gearbox to our cars... In probetalk... If I remeber right, that was a semi-automatic system with 6 gears and if I remember right, you also had a chance to get it done by your own thoughs about gear ratios. Could be wrong though. The cost would be huge. I can't remember how much they would charge but I bet you could propably have do 2 fully turboed MX-6 for the price of that gearbox. Run a search in Probetalk about gearboxes and you might find what I'm talking about.

Yes, the ZE manifold would propably be better than 03 manifold but still, I'm pretty sure you can get the best results my modifying the 03 manifold.(get it done by someone who knows what he is doing.)

You would need new clutch, FPR, definetly new injectors to match that 12 psi, fuel rails, modded ECU or piggy-back computer, rods, pistons... what else... Again I recommend you to run a search in Probetalk to find out more. There are guys who know what they are talking about.

I hope this helps you, buddy. I know something (not nearly everything) about this since I'm propably going with forced induction myself pretty soon. I have plans to run wit basically stock engine so I'll stick under 8psi boosts. Maybe not even that high, gotta see what the A/F ratios and EGT's say.

You have a shitload of work to do to get it going, but if you get it done right and working perfectly, you are gonna have a hell of a street rocket.

C ya
Mici Boooost :freak:
psssscffft, psssscffffft... LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I was just reading some good info on suprprobe's page talking about the big difference in the intake... has some excellent pics of the differences. Who is this guy?
http://www.naplesnews.com/staff/fortier/suprprobe/Home.html
I'd like to see what his performance is like with the SC on. I haven't decided where to get the forged units... would be nice to use my dealer's license and get them at cost. I gues corksport does sell the cams and manifold but I'd hate to pay their prices. Basically I'll be putting in a SC or turbo (maybe twin) and want to make sure everything will be up to par. So look into the ZE manifold, cams can be bought... there's a place here in B'ham, Paesco or something like that, who sells forged units and cams and the such... wonder how good they are... heard someone who has a 240sx messed up his port job... I've only visisted their shop but never bought anything from them. Thanks for the info guys, I appreciate it! BTW, is the ZE TB any bigger than the KL? This guy had a 65mm TB... that's big
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,167 Posts
Gene/=/Splicer said:
I was just reading some good info on suprprobe's page talking about the big difference in the intake... has some excellent pics of the differences. Who is this guy?
He is/was Michel Fortier. He was a pretty good driving force behind alot of what people are doing now to their KL motors back a few years ago. He had a very sweet 94 PGT and seemed to have endless amounts of money to spend on it.

He was going to build a 2.7L stroker motor but lost interest and sold the PGT before it was finished. Allan Wong acquired the stroker kit and put it into his killer 626. AFAIK, Michel doesn't do much if anything in the MX6/PGT community today. I think he sold the PGT because he'd gotten himself another car (RX7?) and didn't have the time/resources to do both.

I'd like to see what his performance is like with the SC on.
Check out Jeff Abrams site. It's "just" a KL03 but it's a sweet little MX3.

I gues corksport does sell the cams and manifold but I'd hate to pay their prices.
No kidding. Expen$ive...

Basically I'll be putting in a SC or turbo (maybe twin) and want to make sure everything will be up to par. So look into the ZE manifold, cams can be bought... there's a place here in B'ham, Paesco or something like that, who sells forged units and cams and the such... wonder how good they are... heard someone who has a 240sx messed up his port job... I've only visisted their shop but never bought anything from them. Thanks for the info guys, I appreciate it!
If you're sure you're going forced induction, the KL03 manifold can be made to work. Like Allan Wong, you can end up making enough power with a strong bottom end and KL03 manifold to put other parts of the drivetrain at risk. At that point, how much more power can you make before you spend more time and money fixing broken parts than you do driving it?

BTW, is the ZE TB any bigger than the KL? This guy had a 65mm TB... that's big
The KLZE uses a 60mm TB like the KL03. 65mm is a common size for bored throttle bodies...I've got one and love it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
If you're sure you're going forced induction, the KL03 manifold can be made to work. Like Allan Wong, you can end up making enough power with a strong bottom end and KL03 manifold to put other parts of the drivetrain at risk. At that point, how much more power can you make before you spend more time and money fixing broken parts than you do driving it?
Yeah, I realize this. At the same time rebuilding the engine, I had thought about also getting a tranny and having it rebuild as well with better units, that's why I inquired about modding a 5spd into a 6spd. You're right Mike, what good will it do me having the hp but throwing out the tranny? The guy who has the used KL also has the 5spd tranny for $450... all together will be $650 but can prob get them both for $600 even, Good deal for good condition?? As I mentioned, I need my car and can't afford to be without it weeks on end getting this all done... even then I don't have 5g's laying around to get it all done at once! It'll be my 'lil project for the next year, or sooner depending on how my business picks up. I have an account with Paxton and have been looking at their novi SC's. Anyway, I need to start somewhere and I intend is to use a SC, less work to my exhaust system and I 'think' the intercooler will be more effective using a SC vs Turbo less heat... BTW how much did you spend boring out your TB?

BTW#2 you listed these guys in another thread about australia guy... http://www.paeco.com/ These are the guys I was mentioning earlier, here right out my back door (2 miles anyway) have you personnaly delt w/them? They looked more like a hole in the ground kinda shop and they did screw up that guys port job... just curious

[Edited by Gene/=/Splicer on 05-07-2001 at 05:35 PM]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
$200 for the 03??? damn, i'd say get it if it has all the parts u need and in running condition.....like others have said if ur going F/I then lower compression of 03 will be better, and the ZE will basically be wasted....intake manifold can be ported and stuff so u dont have to spend a few hundreds on a ZE one either....save some money in those things, u'll need it comes the install stage :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
tb

Just an addition to the question about the ZE throttle body. It is 60 mm like the 03. The only difference is that I don't think the ZE TB has the coolant lines going to it like the 03 does (correct me if I'm wrong). This is a good thing for the ZE, since efforts to keep your intake tract cool (CAI, phenos....) are countered a little bit by the hot coolant heating up the TB in the 03. I'm sure the effect is minimal, but every little bit counts.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top