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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys, new to these forums, chasing a bit of information...

I'm after some information regarding how stout the FE3 actually is? I'm currently in the early stages of planning out a race motor build. My current car is powered by an fsde, which is grossly under square, with poor head flow and next to no room to get any decent flow out of the head. Under high amounts of boost, I believe the fsde has seen nearly 500hp in some builds, which is all good, but requires a bucket load of work to achieve....

I'm considering moving to the FE3 as at least on the surface, it looks like a far better platform.

What kind of power could one of these motors see? i've noticed people have had cylinder wall cracking issues when running big bores...is this the only problem they have? If so i'll have my engine builder get around it by sleeving the block....

I'm keen to know how reliable these motors are, and how much power they could THEORETICALLY hold....

also, has anyone successfully converted the valve train to solid lifters?

any info would be greatly appreciated...
 

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how much money do you have to spend to get the FE3 to fit your 2g?
 

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how much money do you have to spend to get the FE3 to fit your 2g?
not quite zach, the i4 tranny in the 2nd gen i think bolts up. just the mounts are different. don't take my word on that though.

as for the fe3, most people who boost them are between 300-500hp without much issues and i believe someone hit 800hp in some sort of drag/racecar once. theres plenty of upgrades you can do if you want to extend the redline (solid lifters, intake valve keepers on the exhaust side) and the only major issue seems to be from kia blocks and overboring the hell out of them. other than that not may people see failures from them that are not their fault. check the sticky threads for a good idea of some of the more common upgrades or even my thread for pictures of an fe3 :E
 

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The FS is sort've the bastard child of the Mazda world, nothing else really fits it. It isn't a B series, and it isn't really an F series.. it's kinda a B series who is pretending to be an F series.. or maybe an F series in B series clothing..

Consider the FS-ZE.. It's the J-Spec version of the FS-DE. At least it will fit..
There is also the '03 Mazdaspeed Protege.. which has the 170 hp Turbo'ed FS version.. which is probably your best bet for a drop in upgrade at this point. Then work the FS up to something a bit more spectacular..
 

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There is also the '03 Mazdaspeed Protege.. which has the 170 hp Turbo'ed FS version...
the MS protege FS is still the same internals as the n/a one found in the mx6. cept a shittier intake manifold, and COP ignition. (but even the n/a proteges of the same year had those also)

the Mazdaspeed protege's were just basic n/a protege's that had goodies strapped on after it came off the line. the basic motor itself is the exact same. so no reasont o swap the entire motor in, when you can just bolt on the basic's off it for the exact same effect, without spending even close to as much money, and alot less work.
 

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BEcause they used the same stock FS motor is why they also had problems with the MSP's blowing up when you started to up the boost even a little. The least they could have done was drop the CR a little 1st (like the Probe)
 

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keep in mind though, that the MS protege wasnt built by mazda. it was outsourced, and done by a tuning shop. if they tore open the motor, and replaced gut's, no one would have spent the $30K that would be needed on a protege. turbo, or not. thats why they kept it simple with basic bolt on's, and even the suspension was off the shelf aftermarket goodies that were allready available.
 

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I had no idea. Silly me for thinking that they actually did something positive with the FS.

Well if the FS is blowing up at 170 whp, I understand the interest of a FE-DOHC, which seems to be okay in the 500 hp range, with few goodies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Any chance I can get the answers I need with regards to the FE3. I know more than enough about the fsde to know its going to be a pain to get it to work .....

The FE3 would actually find its way into a BJ 323.... Custom mounts will be made if required...really when you think about it custom engine mounts are smally fry compared to the other stuff.

I really want to know how much of a beating the FE3 can take..... if it can't take anymore punishment than the fs, i'll stick with the fs, but if it can take more, and make the power easier, the FE3 might be suite my needs....
 

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it can take it rough and come back for more. crank shaft braces, oil squirters, two oil drains from the head... its meant to take abuse and take it well. hell, its a upgrade compared to the 1.8 bp in the miata. i doubt you will find its limits unless you strap on teh largest turbo you can buy and crank it to full boost.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
it can take it rough and come back for more. crank shaft braces, oil squirters, two oil drains from the head... its meant to take abuse and take it well. hell, its a upgrade compared to the 1.8 bp in the miata. i doubt you will find its limits unless you strap on teh largest turbo you can buy and crank it to full boost.
well that the plan... I want radial tired FWD quartermile times in the 10s.... which means 500hp or more....and as much displacement as the engine builder is game to go to (hence sleeves...2.3L would be fantastic, but from what i've read here its death under high boost unless the block is sleeved...would this be an accurate assumption?)

I may stick with the fs...I'm more just exploring options and trying to see if the FE3 can deal with the abuse. The fs is fairly tough, but the short block design, long stroke and poor head means loads more cash needs to be spent... just going off the basic design of the fe3, it would appear that the motor is more capable stock......so i'm basically trying to save money by starting with a platform that requires less work.....

is the forged crank version of the FE3 appreciably stronger than the cast crank version?

Thanks for all the info so far! keep it coming....

Anyone know just what is involved in switching to solid lifters?
 

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i think the fe3 would be perfect for you then. unfortunately i don't know what an hla conversion would require though, but it might be posted elsewhere if you search.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
i think the fe3 would be perfect for you then. unfortunately i don't know what an hla conversion would require though, but it might be posted elsewhere if you search.
Great...thanks.. i've had a quick look around for the hla conversion but only a quick look ;)

thanks for your help....
 

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What can the FE3 do :

http://www.mx6.com/forums/fe-dohc/202448-new-track-times-new-record-9-95-142mph.html

Rafi has one in an Mx3, so it can replace the FS and FP.....its strong enough for what you want.

I always see the FS as nothing more than an oversized BP, when you look at the journal diameters big and small, and the mains, plus the bore/stroke etc.

you start to realise that the FE3 was more purpose built to be what it is, where as the FS is more what I call a convenience motor...sharing too many underpinnings to the "B" series engine to be any good for making big power.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
What can the FE3 do :

http://www.mx6.com/forums/fe-dohc/202448-new-track-times-new-record-9-95-142mph.html

Rafi has one in an Mx3, so it can replace the FS and FP.....its strong enough for what you want.

I always see the FS as nothing more than an oversized BP, when you look at the journal diameters big and small, and the mains, plus the bore/stroke etc.

you start to realise that the FE3 was more purpose built to be what it is, where as the FS is more what I call a convenience motor...sharing too many underpinnings to the "B" series engine to be any good for making big power.
Thanks, thats great to know. The fs isn't all bad ... iron block and forged crank....the rods are a big let down...but when built they can handle quite a bit of abuse ... but they are prone to overheating, and due to the long stroke they are somewhat maxed out at 7500rpm before piston speeds require the use of race fuel....

There is a guy in PR who has a slicked tired early 323 hatch in the 9's on an fs, but the limitations of the engine really become a problem at around the 400hp mark.... limited space between cylinders, no room in the head for any serious work.... and a tendency to get hot as hell when heavilly stressed mean going off rough sums, i would need to spend nearly 2x the money getting the fs to 500hp.... and I don't think it would do 500hp as easilly as the fe3....

You are right though ... the fs is a grocery getter motor...not a performance platform...hence the reason for this thread.... If the fe3 can hold the power without issue, it appears it will suite my needs far better than a stale old fs....
 

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stop kidding yourselves.

It's no golden god...

It was built to be warranty-able with low NVH. SleepCounter would have told you that too.

pistons : octane and tune dependent up to 400crank hp or more
rods : 7500 on stock stroke or more, 6800 or more on 2.2 stroke. long term (decades) 300crank hp, medium term (years) 400crank hp, short term (a year) 500crank hp. - all daily driving miles...
block : bloody good, name one engine that wouldn't shit itself with an overbore like that.
head : good ports etc
cams : stock can make 600hp crank with high boost. improvements would get better power with less boost.
bearings : decent size will sustain high rpm well.
crank : cast has never had a failure yet, ditto the f2t and all other F engines.

I intend to try to get a 500 crank dyno (400 - 450whp) out of mine with stock pistons, rods, headgasket. Maybe something will fail, maybe it wont.

great engine, but not built to do anything more than get groceries quietly for a long long time.

p.s. theres more fe3 info hidden here.
Mazda FE3 motor
If this were my site, i'd ban you for that post! :p or at least give you a kick up the arse for not pointing out that its got a few errors in it at the least. grain of salt required.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
stop kidding yourselves.

It's no golden god...

It was built to be warranty-able with low NVH. SleepCounter would have told you that too.

pistons : octane and tune dependent up to 400crank hp or more
rods : 7500 on stock stroke or more, 6800 or more on 2.2 stroke. long term (decades) 300crank hp, medium term (years) 400crank hp, short term (a year) 500crank hp. - all daily driving miles...
block : bloody good, name one engine that wouldn't [shizzle] itself with an overbore like that.
head : good ports etc
cams : stock can make 600hp crank with high boost. improvements would get better power with less boost.
bearings : decent size will sustain high rpm well.
crank : cast has never had a failure yet, ditto the f2t and all other F engines.

I intend to try to get a 500 crank dyno (400 - 450whp) out of mine with stock pistons, rods, headgasket. Maybe something will fail, maybe it wont.

great engine, but not built to do anything more than get groceries quietly for a long long time.



If this were my site, i'd ban you for that post! :p or at least give you a kick up the arse for not pointing out that its got a few errors in it at the least. grain of salt required.
Thanks for the post.... however for what i intend to do, its pretty obvious to me that just about any 2L 4cyl engine will require aftermarket rods/pistons/cams etc........ sorry if I was unclear about that....the attraction for me is the ease that the engine will make the power, but I was concerned about the strength of the crank, and block.... Aftermarket rods and custom low compression pistons, for my money at least, are mandatory considering the motor will be stressed under race conditions at or over 500whp....

I was more or less trying to find out whether it would be beneficial to move away from the fs, to a more potentially more capable platform, to avoid the cost associated with masses of head work which would be required on the fs. The engine's willingness to rev, and the fact that it would at least appear on the surface that a decent overbore is achievable are also considerations.
 

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Sleaving a cast iron block eh? Thats what you get when you have "your mechanic" make suggestions instead of knowing info on your own. So what's exactly done to your FSDE...which will dictate if I post again in this thread. I'm thinking this thread is nothing more than a "what if" and wishful thinking type that will never go anywhere. There are a thousand "How much power can the FE3 put down" type threads already.
 
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