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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
does anyone know how good mod chips are and if they are worth getting for my 93 V6 standard. Do they make a big difference.
 

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Smot-Poker
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good question

I too am very curious about this,
I checked out http://www.superchips.com and they said that our cars would get a 12-17% increase in horses.. it also states that it tunes the engine for higher octane fuel... but this fuel is not standard in north america.. has anyone done this before?? if so what are your thoughts on it?
thanx in advance...
 

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THE CHIP

I've heard the chip does make a difference of hp. But I also heard that it should be the last thing you should do to supe up your car. My friend who has a done up type R has the chip and sz its great but it makes your car burn gas a lot quicker.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I've heard SOOOO many different comments on chips, I'm more confused than ever. Anyway, the one I've been considering is the "Jet Chip." You can find it at http://www.jetchip.com. The site claims a boost of 18+ HP on the MX-6, and the price is $399. However, I've heard from a number of people that even a GREAT performance chip will only add about 3-7HP for a V6 motor of any sort. This Jet Chip place actually upgrades YOUR chip though-- you mail it to them and they Express it back (the $399 includes Express Mail). Several other chips I've seen on the net are around $150-$200 and make no HP claims at all. This is about where I'm at on this subject-- pretty confused, but considering the JetChip....
 

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Don't do it!

tlk said:
I've heard SOOOO many different comments on chips, I'm more confused than ever. Anyway, the one I've been considering is the "Jet Chip." You can find it at http://www.jetchip.com. The site claims a boost of 18+ HP on the MX-6, and the price is $399.
Truer words were never spoken: Don't believe the hype

18HP? From a chip? No way, not unless the car is turbocharged and has a PCM-controlled wastegate.

Let's consider the normally aspirated case. Power requires air and fuel. The chip can fiddle with the fuel a bit but can't do anything about air. If you don't get more air into the engine, you can, at best, hope to get a few HP by better utilizing the air you've got. Maybe a bit richer or maybe a bit leaner at WOT.

Spark can also be adjusted but, again, it amounts to fiddling, IMHO. Indeed, I've got a fair amount of experience fiddling with the spark timing curve in the V6 PCM and can say from first hand experience, there's not a gusher of HP to be found when drilling the PCM...

Consider: In the old days, when cars had carburetors and turning the distributor actually affected spark timing; how much power do you think could be unleashed by fattening up a power-jet or giving a few more degrees of advance? Just a few, maybe.

That's all the chip can do in terms of performance. All it can do is adjust fuel delivery and spark. The powertrain engineers put considerable effort into getting the mixture and spark right though they err on the side of low emissions. This is why a bit of adjustment might get you 3-7 HP, but certainly not 18HP.

Fiddling with the VRIS points is useless as well, unless you've got some drastic manifold modifications (or have installed a KLZE) that affect the intake resonance points. Even then, good luck getting the chip maker to customize the PROM for your new VRIS though at a reasonable cost.

However, I've heard from a number of people that even a GREAT performance chip will only add about 3-7HP for a V6 motor of any sort.
These are numbers I can almost believe.

This Jet Chip place actually upgrades YOUR chip though-- you mail it to them and they Express it back (the $399 includes Express Mail). Several other chips I've seen on the net are around $150-$200 and make no HP claims at all. This is about where I'm at on this subject-- pretty confused, but considering the JetChip....
What they'll do is de-solder your existing PROM and install a socket. They'll read the number off the top of your PROM, program a new one with a pre-existing file dedicated for that PROM number, and stick it in the socket.

These companies should be made to produce dyno evidence of their outlandish claims. I went on a mini-crusade a few months ago to get JetChips to give me dyno plots of the car upon which they allegedly got 18HP, bombarding them with email after email asking very politely for the plots. I got nothing but the big runaround. First the "manager was out and he has the plots" and then "We can't seem to locate it." It's just, IMHO, a scam.

A charging $400! LOL! There are definitely better places to spend your performance dollar.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
THANKS MIKE!!!!!

Thanks for the info. I was hoping you or one of the "techy car guys" would answer. I'm skeptical of a LOT these days, and do a great deal of research before giving my hard-earned dollars to just any joe schmo out there. Now it's back to the s/c idea again... Hey Mike, is the $3,999 that Thomas Knight charges really worth it? Or am I better off just internally modifying the engine somehow? I just want to get 200-240HP, and 200+ ft/lbs of torque. BTW, all of your posts are well-documented, and make good use of common sense. This is something I can understand.
 

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Re: THANKS MIKE!!!!!

tlk said:
Thanks for the info. I was hoping you or one of the "techy car guys" would answer. I'm skeptical of a LOT these days, and do a great deal of research before giving my hard-earned dollars to just any joe schmo out there.
That's good. If more people were like that and if more people demanded accountability in advertising, maybe these outfits would get a clue.

Now it's back to the s/c idea again... Hey Mike, is the $3,999 that Thomas Knight charges really worth it? Or am I better off just internally modifying the engine somehow? I just want to get 200-240HP, and 200+ ft/lbs of torque.
To get that kind of power, you could build a good quality, 7-9PSI intercooled turbo system and get something like 220-230 wheel HP (probably in the 260HP at the crank range) and 240 ft-lbs, again at the wheels. And on an internally stock KL03 it'd be pretty reliable if the system was properly built, the fueling was done right and you stayed in that 7-9PSI window. And, I think it could be done alot cheaper than $4000. TKT sells turbo kits, I thought, in the $2500 range...

Building a normally aspirated KL03 to produce similar power numbers would require extensive & expensive internal modifications and frankly, without variable valve timing, it'd probably be a dog below 4000RPM. With such small displacement, you need RPM to process the air (the ultimate measure of how much power an engine will produce) quantity required for high power. In addition, the VE (volumetric efficiency) percent increase needed above, say, 6000RPM, will require radical cams, port and bowl work and definitely an intake manifold re-think.

Just 2.5L will never make a ton of torque, not without a power adder like a blower. So you then start to venture into Honda-like engines: small displacement, high-revving, low-torque. Good power, to be sure, but not the flavor of power delivery you've come to expect from the V6.

$3,999? Is it worth it? Well, there's no doubting the HP gains. It's really up to you whether a chunk of change like that is best spent on the car or something else. The gearhead in me says "Sure. Go for it." The homeowner in me says "The roof needs shingles" So "is it worth it" boils down to how much disposable income you have.

Having blathered all that, I think a good quality turbo install should come in substantially cheaper (in the $2500 range), less if you do as much of the work as you can yourself. IMHO, for the Probe/MX6, a turbo is a better bet than a belt-driven S/C. Personal opinion.

BTW, all of your posts are well-documented, and make good use of common sense. This is something I can understand.
Thanks.
 

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i agree about that.
a S/C takes horspower to run, so there fore it takes away.
a turbo (besides the nasty price) is free horsepower working off your exhuast. i would definetly go with turbo over S/C. i am considering the turbo myself but have that cash problem.
 

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Turbo vs Supercharger

Well, I'm considering turbo or S/C too but I'm going stronger for SC. Maybe it takes some HP running around but just think about this. Less heat, less piping, less lag (altough I know these modern turbos don't have much, but SC ir right boosting when you step on the pedal :)). My personal opinion would be that SC is easier install... And that way it comes cheaper too (maybe?).

Since I don't have neither yet, I can't be absolutely sure but these are my opinions based on what I've seen/read... There are some good sites about both turbos and SC. Just check them out, maybe they'll help ya!

See ya ;)
Mici

Lambo Blue MX-6 doesn´t mean that it flies like Lambo... (Unfortunately) YET!
 

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Re: Turbo vs Supercharger

deejayarse said:
Well, I'm considering turbo or S/C too but I'm going stronger for SC. Maybe it takes some HP running around but just think about this. Less heat, less piping, less lag (altough I know these modern turbos don't have much, but SC ir right boosting when you step on the pedal :)). My personal opinion would be that SC is easier install... And that way it comes cheaper too (maybe?).
Very good points to consider. Certainly, underhood heat will be an issue with a turbocharger. Placement of the turbo such that the downpipe and turbine housing are a safe distance from any heat-sensitive components (e.g. distributor) should be a paramount concern.

I think my biggest worry about superchargers is the fact that they must be mounted such that a jackshaft, running the length of the engine, must be used to drive it. I've seen one centrifugal adaptation that used a secondary jackshaft and belt to drive the blower...very messy. TKT latest Roots offering does away with this secondary shaft (I think), but the big one is still there. I'd be worried about alignment problems, bearing wear (they aren't bathed in engine oil all the time...), reliability etc.
 

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For the MX-6 there is another option that the Probe can't use and that would be to replace the intake manifold witha custom manifold and an Eaton M64 or M90 on it. It would be a tight fit on the mX-6 but almost impossible for the Probe due to the difference in placement of the AC components and a few other piece in the upper passenger side of the engine compartment. It would probably also be a p[roblem for any right hand driven cars also. I'm trying to develope this but as Mike said so I want to spend the money on the car or the house and right now it's more house than car for some things.
 
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