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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Does anyone have any idea regarding fuel consumption and top speed difference between ATX and MTX? I was thinking about swapping my ATX tranny with MTX one, however, I have realised that ATX tranny car revs lower comparing manual one, let's say at 100km/h. It means 626 V6 with ATX consumes less. I have no idea about top speed, but top speed occurs lower than 7000rpm so that they should be nearly same. BTW, I am putting KLZE to my car very soon... My other question is what happens if I put I4 transmission...?
 

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after my 5spd swap into my mx6 I saw a noticeable increase in gas millage. Not only are you adding an extra drive gear but your removing a decent amount of weight with the swap. My ls was always a bit of a gas guzzler. With the atx I was getting about 19mpg city and 25mpg highway. After the swap I was getting 22/28 mpg respectively.
 

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Does anyone have any idea regarding fuel consumption and top speed difference between ATX and MTX? I was thinking about swapping my ATX tranny with MTX one, however, I have realised that ATX tranny car revs lower comparing manual one, let's say at 100km/h. It means 626 V6 with ATX consumes less. I have no idea about top speed, but top speed occurs lower than 7000rpm so that they should be nearly same. BTW, I am putting KLZE to my car very soon... My other question is what happens if I put I4 transmission...?
The added weight and parasitic drag of an auto trans causes poorer mileage.

You cant bolt the I4 trans to the v6 block though the internals will swap.

You can also chose between the MX-6/626 trans and the Probe GT trans. The GT uses a slightly lower final drive ratio to make up for the Probes taller tire and +200 LB curb weight compared to the MX-6. The probe and 626 weigh about the same so usint the PGT trans should net you the same acceleration times as the Probe an the lighter MX-6.

Using the MX-6/626 trans will net you stock like accel for a 5 spd 626 but you will be slightly slower than the PGT/MX-6. Of course the MX-6/626 trans will yeild better mileage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
after my 5spd swap into my mx6 I saw a noticeable increase in gas millage. Not only are you adding an extra drive gear but your removing a decent amount of weight with the swap. My ls was always a bit of a gas guzzler. With the atx I was getting about 19mpg city and 25mpg highway. After the swap I was getting 22/28 mpg respectively.
That's cool. Thank you for sharing :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The added weight and parasitic drag of an auto trans causes poorer mileage.

You cant bolt the I4 trans to the v6 block though the internals will swap.

You can also chose between the MX-6/626 trans and the Probe GT trans. The GT uses a slightly lower final drive ratio to make up for the Probes taller tire and +200 LB curb weight compared to the MX-6. The probe and 626 weigh about the same so usint the PGT trans should net you the same acceleration times as the Probe an the lighter MX-6.

Using the MX-6/626 trans will net you stock like accel for a 5 spd 626 but you will be slightly slower than the PGT/MX-6. Of course the MX-6/626 trans will yeild better mileage.
Yes, you are right, because of added weight, my car drinks more gas. I was in doubt because when I drive at constant speed like I said 90-100 km/h, my rev niddle wanders between 2250-2500 rpm. I have read some treads over here and with the manual tranny that niddle should not be stay below 3000 rpm when I run 90-100km/h.

I asked about I4 tranny because in Turkey, there is no V6 626. I am the one who have that. All the other cars have I4 engine, 1.6 or 2.0lt. From what you are saying, if I manage to get the outer cover of a broken V6 manual tranny, I can put inside I4 components/gear wheels. Is the ratio of I4 manual greater than V6 manual?

I honestly thought the weight of 626 Hatchback and MX6 is the same. 626 Hatchback weight is said to be less than MX6 indded! I have encountered this opinion at an expert review, but do not remember where...

Ford probe last gear ratio is lower than 626? I should use 626 tranny then. I didn't get whay you mean by saying '' Using the MX-6/626 trans will net you stock like accel for a 5 spd 626 but you will be slightly slower than the PGT/MX-6.''

Thank you for your help :)
 

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I asked about I4 tranny because in Turkey, there is no V6 626. I am the one who have that. All the other cars have I4 engine, 1.6 or 2.0lt. From what you are saying, if I manage to get the outer cover of a broken V6 manual tranny, I can put inside I4 components/gear wheels. Is the ratio of I4 manual greater than V6 manual?
yeah if you can get a V6 trans with a good case the The 4 cyl internals can be used to replace the broken parts. I'm not sure if the inpus shaft is the same between the 4 and 6 cyl's so you would proabably want to get the entire trans either way and just swap out the gears them selves.

I honestly thought the weight of 626 Hatchback and MX6 is the same. 626 Hatchback weight is said to be less than MX6 indded! I have encountered this opinion at an expert review, but do not remember where...
I didnt realise you had a hatch 626 and i dont know what they weigh as they didnt sell here for the last 2 generations of the 626. The Probe however is about 200 Pounds heavier than the MX-6 because the MX-6 is a coupe. Since the probe uses the same structure but has a large hole in it for the hatch that would cause it to be weaker and more flexable than the MX-6. Except that they add re-enforcements through out the chassis to try and make it more rigid. Since thats less eficient than having a structural member across the middle of the car it takes more metal to achieve similar stregnth.

The 626 sedan weighs about the same as the probe because it's longer than either the probe or the 6 and it has more doors that add weight and require additional structural members to make it solid. I would think that like most other harches the 626 hatch would be even heavier because on top of the added weight of the sedan it would need the added re-enforcements for the rear hatch.

Ford probe last gear ratio is lower than 626? I should use 626 tranny then. I didn't get whay you mean by saying '' Using the MX-6/626 trans will net you stock like accel for a 5 spd 626 but you will be slightly slower than the PGT/MX-6.''

Thank you for your help :)
The MX-6 and 626 5 speeds both used the same trans with the same ratios so if you put either in your car it would perform just like it would if it came from the factory with a 5 speed.

It's the final drive gear set thats different in the PGT trans. Thats the gear that all 5 forward gears and reverse have to go through before reaching the wheels. It's like the rear end gear set in a rear wheel drive vehicle.

Since the PGT trans final drive ratio is lower than the other two transmissions it will multiply the engine torque a bit more than the higher final's and result in better acceleration with a slightly lower top speed and a higher cruising RPM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
yeah if you can get a V6 trans with a good case the The 4 cyl internals can be used to replace the broken parts. I'm not sure if the inpus shaft is the same between the 4 and 6 cyl's so you would proabably want to get the entire trans either way and just swap out the gears them selves.



I didnt realise you had a hatch 626 and i dont know what they weigh as they didnt sell here for the last 2 generations of the 626. The Probe however is about 200 Pounds heavier than the MX-6 because the MX-6 is a coupe. Since the probe uses the same structure but has a large hole in it for the hatch that would cause it to be weaker and more flexable than the MX-6. Except that they add re-enforcements through out the chassis to try and make it more rigid. Since thats less eficient than having a structural member across the middle of the car it takes more metal to achieve similar stregnth.

The 626 sedan weighs about the same as the probe because it's longer than either the probe or the 6 and it has more doors that add weight and require additional structural members to make it solid. I would think that like most other harches the 626 hatch would be even heavier because on top of the added weight of the sedan it would need the added re-enforcements for the rear hatch.



The MX-6 and 626 5 speeds both used the same trans with the same ratios so if you put either in your car it would perform just like it would if it came from the factory with a 5 speed.

It's the final drive gear set thats different in the PGT trans. Thats the gear that all 5 forward gears and reverse have to go through before reaching the wheels. It's like the rear end gear set in a rear wheel drive vehicle.

Since the PGT trans final drive ratio is lower than the other two transmissions it will multiply the engine torque a bit more than the higher final's and result in better acceleration with a slightly lower top speed and a higher cruising RPM.
Firstly, thanks a lot for answering my questions patiently Is Six :)

Secondly, Well,

What you say makes sense, some issues are still blurry, though.

I am sure the shells/bodies of MX6 and Probe are stiffer than 626 variants either hatch or sedan. To make a body more stiffer, you need to use more metal or thicker one.

Yes, 626s have extra two doors, however, other cars ( probe and mx6 ) have metal at those places, not plastic or sth else light. I do not think the weight difference is too great.

I may agree with you regarding sedan/hatchback weight issue. However I am not sure. If Mazda had used extra metal for hatchback to make it as stiff as sedan, the hatchback would have been as stiff as sedan, but it is not.

The last but not the least issue is that Mx6 also has 4WD system which adds extra weight comparing 626 versions.

Cheers!
 

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Firstly, thanks a lot for answering my questions patiently Is Six :)
Never a problem :)

Secondly, Well,

What you say makes sense, some issues are still blurry, though.

I am sure the shells/bodies of MX6 and Probe are stiffer than 626 variants either hatch or sedan. To make a body more stiffer, you need to use more metal or thicker one.
They just typicaly add another layer of stock guage metal over the original sedan/coupe metal along with stamped gussets at junction points.

Yes, 626s have extra two doors, however, other cars ( probe and mx6 ) have metal at those places, not plastic or sth else light. I do not think the weight difference is too great.
Well remember that where ever they place a sizable hole in the structure they need to add structural members both to support the chassis and to provide strong mounting points for doors and hatches. In the case of a 4 door vs a 2 door the sedans have 2 entire door frame structures added that are boxed sections of steel where the coupe would have mostly cosmetis sheetmetal and
some stamped inner strustural elements.

I may agree with you regarding sedan/hatchback weight issue. However I am not sure. If Mazda had used extra metal for hatchback to make it as stiff as sedan, the hatchback would have been as stiff as sedan, but it is not.

No even with added structure hatches are rarely as stiff as coupes and sedans.
There are exceptions though. The 4th gen Comaro/firebird verts are stiffer than the hatches (including non T top cars) because they came with a lot of extra structure to compensate for the missing roof.



The last but not the least issue is that Mx6 also has 4WD system which adds extra weight comparing 626 versions.

Cheers!

Ah! in the states the GE cars never came with 4WS ( or as hatches in the case of the 626 ) My MX-6 LS with all options weighed just 2675lbs stock vs 2800-2900 for Probes and 626's. I understand that in other areas the MX-6 came with 4ws more often than not but I cant really advide on the weight penalties involved but a swap to the 626/ Probe rear is relatively simple and leads to more consistant handeling according to many people. If it sheds a significant amount of weight then thats a bonus.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Never a problem :)



They just typicaly add another layer of stock guage metal over the original sedan/coupe metal along with stamped gussets at junction points.

Well remember that where ever they place a sizable hole in the structure they need to add structural members both to support the chassis and to provide strong mounting points for doors and hatches. In the case of a 4 door vs a 2 door the sedans have 2 entire door frame structures added that are boxed sections of steel where the coupe would have mostly cosmetis sheetmetal and
some stamped inner strustural elements.

No even with added structure hatches are rarely as stiff as coupes and sedans.
There are exceptions though. The 4th gen Comaro/firebird verts are stiffer than the hatches (including non T top cars) because they came with a lot of extra structure to compensate for the missing roof.


Ah! in the states the GE cars never came with 4WS ( or as hatches in the case of the 626 ) My MX-6 LS with all options weighed just 2675lbs stock vs 2800-2900 for Probes and 626's. I understand that in other areas the MX-6 came with 4ws more often than not but I cant really advide on the weight penalties involved but a swap to the 626/ Probe rear is relatively simple and leads to more consistant handeling according to many people. If it sheds a significant amount of weight then thats a bonus.

Yes, adding some layers of gusset means more weight added to its frame.

Yes, I agree with you about second section.

Coupe and hatch terms mean identical sometimes. For instance, Hyundai Tubiron/FX coupe looks like a hatchback and there are plenty of samples on the road like this. As you know, a lot of sport cars come with coupe/hatchback design :) They should have been produced in sedan form by means of your explanation.


I used to have an MX3 V6 and I weighed it and it was sth 1300kg/2860lb !!! This weight issue is still tricky to me. I have realised that you have taken out the AC. How many kgs or lbs you saved then? Is it worth to sacrifice such cool air for summer time?

One more question, just think about two 626 or MX6. One of them has ATX with KLDE ( my present set up) and another one has MTX with KLZE( about to get these things swapped to my car). Which one drinks more petrol/gas?
CHEERS!
 

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Yes, adding some layers of gusset means more weight added to its frame.

Yes, I agree with you about second section.

Coupe and hatch terms mean identical sometimes. For instance, Hyundai Tubiron/FX coupe looks like a hatchback and there are plenty of samples on the road like this.
Well in the states a coupe has a fixed rear window that dose not open while a hatch is hinged at the roof. There are cars that blur the lines and cars like the tiburon are called coupes but are infact hatches or 3 doors.



I used to have an MX3 V6 and I weighed it and it was sth 1300kg/2860lb !!! This weight issue is still tricky to me. I have realised that you have taken out the AC. How many kgs or lbs you saved then? Is it worth to sacrifice such cool air for summer time?
MX-3 or MX-6? The 3's are only slightly lighter than the 6's but thats very heavy if you weighed it empty. The heaviest MX-3 with a V 6 and auto in 96 with all options should weigh in around 2500 pounds.

I didnt really chose to delete the A/C especialy with my black leather but I wrecked the car and destroyed the condensor. Then a year later the Clutch for the A/C siesed and tossed the belt. After I bypassed the A/C I pulled everything since it was all just dead weight.

I would guess that everything together was about 70-75 pounds.

One more question, just think about two 626 or MX6. One of them has ATX with KLDE ( my present set up) and another one has MTX with KLZE( about to get these things swapped to my car). Which one drinks more petrol/gas?
CHEERS!
I couldnt tell you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Well in the states a coupe has a fixed rear window that dose not open while a hatch is hinged at the roof. There are cars that blur the lines and cars like the tiburon are called coupes but are infact hatches or 3 doors.





MX-3 or MX-6? The 3's are only slightly lighter than the 6's but thats very heavy if you weighed it empty. The heaviest MX-3 with a V 6 and auto in 96 with all options should weigh in around 2500 pounds.

I didnt really chose to delete the A/C especialy with my black leather but I wrecked the car and destroyed the condensor. Then a year later the Clutch for the A/C siesed and tossed the belt. After I bypassed the A/C I pulled everything since it was all just dead weight.

I would guess that everything together was about 70-75 pounds.



I couldnt tell you.
You have really been so helpful. Thank you again :)
 

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One more question, just think about two 626 or MX6. One of them has ATX with KLDE ( my present set up) and another one has MTX with KLZE( about to get these things swapped to my car). Which one drinks more petrol/gas?
CHEERS!
I'd say the DE drinks a little more. With my 03, I was getting about 27 mpg (hwy) on a 650 mile trip, whereas with the ZE I'm averaging 29 mpg on the same trip. I've had an ATX with both engines. It makes sense, since the ZE has to work less to keep the car at speed. Couple that with the people saying they've noticed improved fuel economy since their manual swaps, and I think it's safe to say the ZE/MTX will have the better fuel economy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'd say the DE drinks a little more. With my 03, I was getting about 27 mpg (hwy) on a 650 mile trip, whereas with the ZE I'm averaging 29 mpg on the same trip. I've had an ATX with both engines. It makes sense, since the ZE has to work less to keep the car at speed. Couple that with the people saying they've noticed improved fuel economy since their manual swaps, and I think it's safe to say the ZE/MTX will have the better fuel economy.
Thank you Mazdaman88. I agree with you. I haven't been around for a while and I now have Efini MS-8 with KLZE ATX and 626 Hatchback with KLDE-MTX. The fuel consumption looks to be the same with both cars. I will soon have to sell one of them and I really feel very confused about that :( Cheers
 
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